Jasmin 0 #151 January 3, 2006 Quote And I disagree with you. There's no law against transporting flour in a condom. Whatever will you want to restrict next? Umm I'm with the other guy, she intentionally packed it "as a practical joke" knowing full well that it was a complete waste of resources. Its about as stupid, ill-conceived and nasty, as joking about having a bomb. Yes it wasn't for real, but playing a sick and pathetic joke on people who work tirelessly everyday to keep the community safe from drugs/bombs/criminals/etc, rates really low in my book. This all said, three weeks in jail (for essentially being stupid) is a bit much. I'd rather have seen her do some community service in a drug rehabilitation centre and apologise to the airport security staff who's time and energy she wasted.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #152 January 3, 2006 Quote QuoteSo you have not ever seen a zirconia/aluminum thermite mixture. If you had, you would know it does not look, feel or smell anything like flour. Yet another red herring argument. I never mentioned thermite because it isn’t processed for concealment of its properties since the end user couldn’t care less about that aspect of the mixture. Whereas one can imagine a terrorist organization combining milled aluminum and zirconium into a powder with other compounds in a final form which could resemble flour or another common product and ignite explosively. However because this mixture could resemble illegal drugs the TSA would be compelled to ignore it according to your line of thinking and I’m not willing to follow you there. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! I could probably list 100 harmless substances that COULD be mistaken for illegal substances. Checking on all of them would shut down transportation in this country as we know it. There is NO WAY aluminum/zirconia powder can be mistaken for flour. BTW, Aluminum/Zirconia IS a thermite (one of many, the most common of which is iron oxide/aluminum), but don't let facts get in the way of your headlong rush to authoritarianism. BTW2 - If you take a look at the enthalpies of formation, ZrO2/Al thermite is a particularly poor example compared with Fe2O3/Al thermite; very little heat is liberated by the zirconia thermite. BTW3 since flour itself is explosive www.fireworld.com/magazine/grainperil.html maybe you'd just like to ban all flour and bread products form planes, trains and buses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #153 January 3, 2006 Please get your facts straight. http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/13504147.htm They were not intentionally packed as a practical joke or test of TSA security. Homemade stress balls are not a TSA prohibited item. The flour filled condoms were a gag gift. QuoteThat naivete, she said, began when screeners at Philadelphia International Airport inspecting her checked luggage found three condoms filled with white powder. Lee laughed and told city police they were filled with flour. It was just part of a phallic gag at a women's college, she told them, a stress-reliever, something to squeeze while studying for exams."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #154 January 3, 2006 QuoteQuote And I disagree with you. There's no law against transporting flour in a condom. Whatever will you want to restrict next? Umm I'm with the other guy, she intentionally packed it "as a practical joke" knowing full well that it was a complete waste of resources. Its about as stupid, ill-conceived and nasty, as joking about having a bomb. Yes it wasn't for real, but playing a sick and pathetic joke on people who work tirelessly everyday to keep the community safe from drugs/bombs/criminals/etc, rates really low in my book. This all said, three weeks in jail (for essentially being stupid) is a bit much. I'd rather have seen her do some community service in a drug rehabilitation centre and apologise to the airport security staff who's time and energy she wasted. Do you really think the people would have gone along with all the hassle in airports if TSA was put in place to catch drug carriers? That is NOT TSA's mission. The girl made no threat to the safety of the flight or the passengers. Drug carriers do NOT pack the stuff in condoms and then put it in their bags. This was a case of incredible ineptitude by the TSA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #155 January 3, 2006 QuoteThere is NO WAY aluminum/zirconia powder can be mistaken for flour. Sure it can, have a look for yourself. Source1 [Aluminum Oxide]: http://www.informulation.on.ca/A55770/cts.nsf/0/E07B8983DB20DAFE86256F170060AC5C?OpenDocument Source2 [Powdered Zirconia]: http://www.oes-dent.com/oesvita/image/13/z13-2.jpg Source2 [Powdered Zirconia]: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.oes-dent.com/oesvita/image/13/z13-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.oes-dent.com/oesvita/zirconia(sayoung).htm&h=187&w=236&sz=69&tbnid=11QKeQNXYsIJ:&tbnh=82&tbnw=104&hl=en&start=24&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dzirconia%2Bpowder%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN Source3 [Powdered Zirconia]: http://www.made-in-china.com/showimages/113/152382/0/Zirconia_Powder.gif QuoteBTW, Aluminum/Zirconia IS a thermite (one of many, the most common of which is iron oxide/aluminum), but don't let facts get in the way of your headlong rush to authoritarianism. Please furnish a source evidencing that ALL Aluminum/Zirconia compounds are necessarily classified as being “thermites” if you’re going to continue with this claim. Ferrous oxide is utilized in nearly all “thermites” but of course my example did not refer to thermite, you were the one who brought thermite into the discussion. And I hardly favor authoritarianism unless I am king. QuoteBTW3 since flour itself is explosive http://www.fireworld.com/...zine/grainperil.html maybe you'd just like to ban all flour and bread products form planes, trains and buses. Flour cannot be used to burn a hole through an airliner’s skin to rapidly depressurize a plane or melt through a cockpit security door. Incendiary compounds can be used by terrorists to do these things and can be packed into condoms and luggage. I’ll take your suggestion to ban bread products from public transportation under advisement. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #156 January 3, 2006 One could argue that the preparation of a delicious souffle could be a threat to airline security. I'll take my parachute and sit by the door - I learnt that from 24. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #157 January 3, 2006 Quote Ahem - it's aluminum, not aluminum oxide. You really haven't actually seen it or actually touched it, have you? Here's a nice picture of me. Guess what I'm doing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #158 January 3, 2006 QuoteAhem - it's aluminum, not aluminum oxide. You’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. QuoteHere's a nice picture of me. Guess what I'm doing. Burning the elephant pattern tie you snatched from the leader of your college republicans? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #159 January 3, 2006 QuoteYou’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. You think that looks like flour? Tell you what, I never want an invitation to dinner at your house. Thanks. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,625 #160 January 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. You think that looks like flour? Tell you what, I never want an invitation to dinner at your house. Thanks. rl Internet pictures of powders and seeing/feeling the actual product have about as much relation to each other as phone sex does to real sex. Just in the interests of disclosure, our powder metallurgy laboratory is less than 40 feet from where I sit right now. We have all sorts of metal and oxide powders in there, including aluminum, alumina and zirconia. Alumina and zirconia are brilliant white, while aluminum is dull grey. They are all significantly denser than flour. Only a complete moron would mistake them for flour. We still haven't established why TSA thought this girl, if actually smuggling drugs, had the condoms in her case instead of swallowing them which is, I believe, the normal MO of mules.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #161 January 3, 2006 I am with RhondaLea here. That does NOT look anything like any flour I have ever baked or cooked with.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #162 January 3, 2006 Whew. I was worried we'd see some photos that looked like flour."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #163 January 3, 2006 No worries, I don’t typically serve my guests food made from flour that was stored in a latex condom and groped during finals week. I’d imagine this would leave the flour looking and tasting less than pristine. See photo below for another example of fine mesh aluminum powder that could easily be processed to look like flour Source1: http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #164 January 3, 2006 QuoteThey are all significantly denser than flour. Fine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #165 January 3, 2006 Quote Only a complete moron would mistake them for flour. We are talking about the TSA right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #166 January 3, 2006 QuoteFine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. What part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #167 January 3, 2006 Quote QuoteThey are all significantly denser than flour. Fine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Here is where your line of thinking is leading me: Wouldn't they be inclined to test for explosive residue and NOT a drug test? Last time I checked those types of tests were exclusive. But, since they DID test for drugs, it is apparent that that is what they were searching for and not explosives. So the "items that look like flour but are explosives" argument does not really apply here. Personally, I think if you bring something that is shaped and packaged like that, you may arouse some suspicion. Same would apply if I put some of that fake weed substance in a baggy. It might get flagged and checked. However, holding her for 3 weeks is ridiculous, especially considering the anomaly of 3 drugs showing up in the test. They should have tested again immediately.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #168 January 3, 2006 QuoteWhat part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? Define your “they” and I’ll respond accordingly. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #169 January 3, 2006 QuoteI am not commenting on whether the TSA should be doing that or not, but it seems to me that they EXPECTED drugs and not explosives. And why is it that you think they EXPECTED drugs? Could it be that white powder isn't ordinarily transported through airline security in condoms? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #170 January 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? Define your “they” and I’ll respond accordingly. You know, "THEY". Those people that are expected to get everything perfect, 100% of the time, and even when idiots purposely try to mess with them. Identified by the same people that expect perfection in everybody else, but want to be forgiven for anything they are responsible for that get wrong. Those "they". "Them" The other people. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #171 January 3, 2006 QuoteYou know, "THEY". Those people that are expected to get everything perfect, 100% of the time, and even when idiots purposely try to mess with them. Identified by the same people that expect perfection in everybody else, but want to be forgiven for anything they are responsible for that get wrong. Those "they". "Them" The other people. Thanks for clearing that up for me rehmwa. I would have to agree that people typically don't look resemble flour or illicit contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #172 January 3, 2006 Have you been reading the same thread? See post 147. Quote The TSA's mission statement is: "The Transportation Security Administration protects the Nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." TSA's job is not to identify all objects passing through check points but to identify specific prohibited items. If they can't ID an item as prohibited, they are outside of their jurisdiction in passing unidentified objects on to local law enforcement. That is a violation of 4th amendment rights. "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #173 January 3, 2006 Quote QuoteI am not commenting on whether the TSA should be doing that or not, but it seems to me that they EXPECTED drugs and not explosives. And why is it that you think they EXPECTED drugs? Could it be that white powder isn't ordinarily transported through airline security in condoms? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! That is not the point. And I stated that. My point was that your "flour looks like explosive" line of argument was pointless in this case because that does not seem to be what even aroused their suspicions. They suspected drugs and pulled her and tested it. And then proceeded to fuck it up and then didn't bother to test again. I am not arguing that they should not have done it. Checking for drug smuggling has been done LONG before 9/11 and the TSA. I am just saying they did a very poor job.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #174 January 3, 2006 QuoteThanks for clearing that up for me rehmwa. I would have to agree that people typically don't look resemble flour or illicit contraband. I did no such thing (clearing up) - the "they" posted was some attached pics earlier. I went off a complete tangent because I'm eating and reading at lunch right now. I don't think we use arbitrary numbers enough with the TSA. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sen.Blutarsky 0 #175 January 3, 2006 QuoteThe TSA's mission statement is: "The Transportation Security Administration protects the Nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." TSA's job is not to identify all objects passing through check points but to identify specific prohibited items. If they can't ID an item as prohibited, they are outside of their jurisdiction in passing unidentified objects on to local law enforcement. That is a violation of 4th amendment rights. Last time I checked illegal drugs were prohibited items for purposes of commercial air travel. It’s shocking that somebody could actually argue TSA personnel who reasonably believe a pax is carrying illegal drugs on board a commercial flight should simply turn a blind eye. I could agree that TSA probably should alert DEA or another specialized federal agency equipped to process suspected drugs contraband instead of handling such incidents directly. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Sen.Blutarsky 0 #158 January 3, 2006 QuoteAhem - it's aluminum, not aluminum oxide. You’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. QuoteHere's a nice picture of me. Guess what I'm doing. Burning the elephant pattern tie you snatched from the leader of your college republicans? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #159 January 3, 2006 QuoteYou’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. You think that looks like flour? Tell you what, I never want an invitation to dinner at your house. Thanks. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #160 January 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou’re right, I goofed by showing the oxide product. So here’s an example of powdered aluminum that looks like flour: http://www.espimetals.com/images/aluminumpowder-325.JPG Same result obtains. You think that looks like flour? Tell you what, I never want an invitation to dinner at your house. Thanks. rl Internet pictures of powders and seeing/feeling the actual product have about as much relation to each other as phone sex does to real sex. Just in the interests of disclosure, our powder metallurgy laboratory is less than 40 feet from where I sit right now. We have all sorts of metal and oxide powders in there, including aluminum, alumina and zirconia. Alumina and zirconia are brilliant white, while aluminum is dull grey. They are all significantly denser than flour. Only a complete moron would mistake them for flour. We still haven't established why TSA thought this girl, if actually smuggling drugs, had the condoms in her case instead of swallowing them which is, I believe, the normal MO of mules.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #161 January 3, 2006 I am with RhondaLea here. That does NOT look anything like any flour I have ever baked or cooked with.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #162 January 3, 2006 Whew. I was worried we'd see some photos that looked like flour."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #163 January 3, 2006 No worries, I don’t typically serve my guests food made from flour that was stored in a latex condom and groped during finals week. I’d imagine this would leave the flour looking and tasting less than pristine. See photo below for another example of fine mesh aluminum powder that could easily be processed to look like flour Source1: http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #164 January 3, 2006 QuoteThey are all significantly denser than flour. Fine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #165 January 3, 2006 Quote Only a complete moron would mistake them for flour. We are talking about the TSA right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #166 January 3, 2006 QuoteFine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. What part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #167 January 3, 2006 Quote QuoteThey are all significantly denser than flour. Fine. So in my haste I chose an implausible example. That doesn't diminish the fact that other dangerous compounds resemble flour and might reasonably arouse the suspicions of airport security personnel, who may lawfully test them for contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Here is where your line of thinking is leading me: Wouldn't they be inclined to test for explosive residue and NOT a drug test? Last time I checked those types of tests were exclusive. But, since they DID test for drugs, it is apparent that that is what they were searching for and not explosives. So the "items that look like flour but are explosives" argument does not really apply here. Personally, I think if you bring something that is shaped and packaged like that, you may arouse some suspicion. Same would apply if I put some of that fake weed substance in a baggy. It might get flagged and checked. However, holding her for 3 weeks is ridiculous, especially considering the anomaly of 3 drugs showing up in the test. They should have tested again immediately.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #168 January 3, 2006 QuoteWhat part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? Define your “they” and I’ll respond accordingly. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #169 January 3, 2006 QuoteI am not commenting on whether the TSA should be doing that or not, but it seems to me that they EXPECTED drugs and not explosives. And why is it that you think they EXPECTED drugs? Could it be that white powder isn't ordinarily transported through airline security in condoms? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #170 January 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat part of "they don't look like flour" do you not understand? Define your “they” and I’ll respond accordingly. You know, "THEY". Those people that are expected to get everything perfect, 100% of the time, and even when idiots purposely try to mess with them. Identified by the same people that expect perfection in everybody else, but want to be forgiven for anything they are responsible for that get wrong. Those "they". "Them" The other people. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #171 January 3, 2006 QuoteYou know, "THEY". Those people that are expected to get everything perfect, 100% of the time, and even when idiots purposely try to mess with them. Identified by the same people that expect perfection in everybody else, but want to be forgiven for anything they are responsible for that get wrong. Those "they". "Them" The other people. Thanks for clearing that up for me rehmwa. I would have to agree that people typically don't look resemble flour or illicit contraband. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #172 January 3, 2006 Have you been reading the same thread? See post 147. Quote The TSA's mission statement is: "The Transportation Security Administration protects the Nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." TSA's job is not to identify all objects passing through check points but to identify specific prohibited items. If they can't ID an item as prohibited, they are outside of their jurisdiction in passing unidentified objects on to local law enforcement. That is a violation of 4th amendment rights. "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #173 January 3, 2006 Quote QuoteI am not commenting on whether the TSA should be doing that or not, but it seems to me that they EXPECTED drugs and not explosives. And why is it that you think they EXPECTED drugs? Could it be that white powder isn't ordinarily transported through airline security in condoms? Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! That is not the point. And I stated that. My point was that your "flour looks like explosive" line of argument was pointless in this case because that does not seem to be what even aroused their suspicions. They suspected drugs and pulled her and tested it. And then proceeded to fuck it up and then didn't bother to test again. I am not arguing that they should not have done it. Checking for drug smuggling has been done LONG before 9/11 and the TSA. I am just saying they did a very poor job.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #174 January 3, 2006 QuoteThanks for clearing that up for me rehmwa. I would have to agree that people typically don't look resemble flour or illicit contraband. I did no such thing (clearing up) - the "they" posted was some attached pics earlier. I went off a complete tangent because I'm eating and reading at lunch right now. I don't think we use arbitrary numbers enough with the TSA. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #175 January 3, 2006 QuoteThe TSA's mission statement is: "The Transportation Security Administration protects the Nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce." TSA's job is not to identify all objects passing through check points but to identify specific prohibited items. If they can't ID an item as prohibited, they are outside of their jurisdiction in passing unidentified objects on to local law enforcement. That is a violation of 4th amendment rights. Last time I checked illegal drugs were prohibited items for purposes of commercial air travel. It’s shocking that somebody could actually argue TSA personnel who reasonably believe a pax is carrying illegal drugs on board a commercial flight should simply turn a blind eye. I could agree that TSA probably should alert DEA or another specialized federal agency equipped to process suspected drugs contraband instead of handling such incidents directly. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
