Shotgun 1
Oops, you're right - Greek. But that is where the word "homophobia" originally came from, the Greek words homos ("the same") and phobos ("fear").
QuoteDon't say that gay people recruit. We don't (except for some odd aberrations) and everyone knows it. And even if we did, so what? People recruit for all sorts of things (religions, military, career fairs) and that rarely causes problems.
***
Funny you should say that!
I was having that very discussion with another jumping buddy last night!!!
Now this guy is a one time rocket engineer...a professional airline pilot, he speaks 4 languages...
And THAT was his major fear / prejudice against gays.
He became extremely emotional as he described various scenarios in which the 'Evil Fag Monster' lurks about in wait, to ponce upon anyone not full of hatred similar to his...and magically change their sexual identity...
My asking about specific individuals..or examples had no effect on his 'justified' reason to hate / fear..
Fear of change- fear of things different, is inherent
within us as a species...it's how we survived the jungle. The willingness to address those fears on an intellectual level is the ONLY way things will ever change....
And let's be honest...if THIS guy won't even LISTEN to logical reason and documented history...that day is yet a LONG way off!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteBut that is where the word "homophobia" originally came from
Linguistic etymology of the word "homophobia" is misleading.
It's not "fear of same" or "fear of man" or even the looser "fear of homosexuals". Homophobes love to wiggle a knife into the chinks of the word to score rhetorical points.
It's definitely a word defined by usage as RL says. It means nothing more specific than people who harbor strong bias against gay people.
If you don't like how the greek or latin roots relate to that meaning, sorry. There are many things that make a word stick in a language OTHER THAN their pure derivative roots.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Guest
QuoteQuoteHmm, I have yet to see a dictionary that defines "homophobia" as "fear of mankind."
He has etymology confused with usage.
The "homo-" part of the word is derived from a Latin word meaning "the same," so I think he is confused about it having anything at all to do with mankind.
So when Pilate said "Ecce homo", it meant "Behold, the same"?
mh
.
"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."
Shotgun 1
QuoteIt means nothing more specific than people who harbor strong bias against gay people.
Yes, that is what the word was intended to mean and does mean. But for some reason, people try to use etymology to say it means "fear of mankind," and that is not how the word was derived.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to hijack the thread to talk about word origins, so I think I'll leave that alone now...
QuoteSo when Pilate said "Ecce homo", it meant "Behold, the same"?
Like I said two posts above,
QuoteHomophobes love to wiggle a knife into the chinks of the word to score rhetorical points.
But that doesn't change anything. And nobody is fooled. Which reminds me of my favorite quote from Fight Club:
QuoteSticking feathers up your ass does not make you a chicken.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Shotgun 1
QuoteSo when Pilate said "Ecce homo", it meant "Behold, the same"?
Sometimes words/prefixes have more than one meaning. In this case, "homo" does not mean "the same." But I'm sure you already knew that...
sundevil777 93
So now you say that 'phobia' doesn't mean 'fear of'?
So if I have the phobia related to heights, it means I have a 'strong bias against' heights?
So if I have the phobia related to heights, it means I have a 'strong bias against' heights?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
sundevil777 93
QuoteThose who ASSUME gay people would turn on them in a gay world make me understand how their minds work just a little more than I did before.
I think this is a thinly veiled personal attack.
How your mind works is also on display.
You think gays are above the flaws that have afflicted the rest of the human race throughout history. This is the 'tables turned' hypothetical, with the swapped groups NOT having their current set of experiences.
There's a pervasive assumption of conflict in their minds. They simply can't imagine a world where the majority doesn't torment everyone else.
You simply can't admit that all humans are flawed, and that only recently have we been able to overcome that.
Hatred and bigotry are only recently being overcome. But somehow gays would not have been subject to that awful tendency that has been a fact throughout history. They somehow have an intrinsic quality that would prevent them from being an oppressor.
Bullshit.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
rwieder 0
QuoteWhy are straight people (in general) scared of gay people? What danger do we represent?
The fear of the unknown. Personally, i can't envision myself performing felatio on another male, let alone the "other" thing. I'm sorry, IMO it's repulsive and the human body was not even designed to function that way. God created man in his own image, then created eve to provide adam with a "BREEDING" partner and then told them to go forth and populate the earth.
Thus the old adage: "God created Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and STEVE"
Hey, if gays want to be gay, cool, i just don't want to be subjected to it in any forum anywhere anytime. The same way i don't broadcast how much "Tail" i pull in. This movie is a definite slap in the face to "BREEDERS"
I can't tell you how let down i felt when i found out Rock Hudson was gay. In the end, right or wrong we all must learn tolerance of one another. Society will continue to evolve. In the 20's & 30's women weren't allowed to vote, or smoke in public. Men were allowed to beat their wives with a stick no bigger in diameter than their thumb, thus the saying "Rule of thumb" was coined. Blacks during this same era were not allowed to vote, eat, sleep, drink...yada...yada...yada....am i to beleive gays didn't exists then? If so, were was all of this "I am Gay hear me roar" then? Or was it just a simple matter of gays keeping it quite because of the fear of something else? I guess now that women have burned their bras and make more $$$ than men do and blacks have the same, if not more rights than caucasians do, is now just "Prime Time" to make noise?
Gimme a break.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
QuotePersonally, i can't envision myself performing felatio on another male, let alone the "other" thing.
Where did this spontaneously come from? Nobody asked you to imagine it. That's very odd... You might want to dig deep down and discover why your mind is going there. That's kinda pathological, don't you think?
This reminds me of something a gay friend's father said when his son came out to him. "The thought of what you'd look like getting fucked by another guy makes me SICK!" All I could wonder is why a father's imagination is stuck on images of his children having sex. Does he spend a lot of time visualizing his girls having sex too? There's something very SICK in that family but it's not the children.
QuoteThis movie is a definite slap in the face to "BREEDERS"
Are all movies with minorities insulting to the majority? Is every movie with black people a slap in the face of whites? What neurosis brings on such a reaction?
I'm sorry I have to say that the rest of your post doesn't interest me enough to respond. Sorry, I know you worked real hard at it but it's old, old stuff. Been there, got nowhere, shrugged it off.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteHey, if gays want to be gay, cool, i just don't want to be subjected to it in any forum anywhere anytime.
Quote
And if there were more gays than closed minded self centered red necks...and they made statements like yours...against said hypothetical red necks...
wouldn't you consider that oppression?
QuoteThe same way i don't broadcast how much "Tail" i pull in.
Quote
Ahhh. ya kinda just did...,
And just as I don't care what a gay person does in their life that doesn't directly effect me...
I don't care to hear you complain about how little you're getting!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteSo now you say that 'phobia' doesn't mean 'fear of'?
So if I have the phobia related to heights, it means I have a 'strong bias against' heights?
No, that's not what I said at all. I told you what "homophobia" means. I also very carefully explained that its meaning is NOT traceable directly through its roots nor does it need to be. Please go back and read my words again if you actually want to know what I said.
But I don't think you misunderstood at all. I think you're just pretending to not understand so as to cause irritation. I won't play.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rwieder 0
QuoteWhere did this spontaneously come from? Nobody asked you to imagine it. That's very odd... You might want to dig deep down and discover why your mind is going there. That's kinda pathological, don't you think?
You know darn well what i meant. I was simply making a point without saying in words what you did. If i would've said what you said, i can just about gaurentee you would have made a big deal out of it.
Quote"The thought of what you'd look like getting fucked by another guy makes me SICK!" All I could wonder is why a father's imagination is stuck on images of his children having sex. Does he spend a lot of time visualizing his girls having sex too? There's something very SICK in that family but it's not the children.
This is something you will only be able to speculate on the rest of your life. You will never have real, or personal knowledge of the facts so you don't have a clue how this may and could hurt someone very deeply. As far as visuals go, if you guys would stop bringing up this stuff, the visuals would soon diminish.
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
QuoteQuoteThose who ASSUME gay people would turn on them in a gay world make me understand how their minds work just a little more than I did before.
I think this is a thinly veiled personal attack.
Well, if that's what it is, I want in on it, because I agree with him.
QuoteHow your mind works is also on display.
Yeah, it is. And his mind is brilliant. To further illuminate something I wrote earlier, my personal regret about gay men is that it isn't body parts that make my toes curl so much as intellect. And sometimes, because of that, I really feel like I'm missing out.
Maybe there's a whole new sexual preference for us to consider: smart sex.
QuoteYou think gays are above the flaws that have afflicted the rest of the human race throughout history.
That's not what he wrote.
And, factually speaking, in the few societies we have to go on, those with a same-sex orientation have not oppressed those with an opposite sex orientation. This is not to say there have not been oppressed people in those societies, but the lines were not drawn in the way you might suppose.
rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb
QuoteQuoteSo when Pilate said "Ecce homo", it meant "Behold, the same"?
Sometimes words/prefixes have more than one meaning. In this case, "homo" does not mean "the same." But I'm sure you already knew that...
The word homo meaning man is Latin as well as Greek.
rwieder 0
QuoteI don't care to hear you complain about how little you're getting!
Oh, i can gaurentee you that you get 5 times more than i do. I have worked over 300 days this year, and every day i'm away is another day "without" Good thing i have an understanding wife. Now, in my missguided youth now.....................BooYah!
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
rwieder 0
QuoteMaybe there's a whole new sexual preference for us to consider: smart sex.
rl: too much Dr. Phil?
He just released a book called exactly that.-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
QuoteQuoteI don't care to hear you complain about how little you're getting!
Oh, i can guarantee you that you get 5 times more than i do. I have worked over 300 days this year, and every day I'm away is another day "without" Good thing i have an understanding wife. Now, in my misguided youth now.....................BooYah!
***
"LTMI"
I didn't mean you PERSONALLY!!
I meant that...we all can have a spirited talk about sex, skydiving and the Raiders game...but in the final analysis.
If you're opinions and or actions don't detrimentally effect me in my world...it's none of my concern, and have at it!
Diversity is what makes the planet interesting.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
QuoteHow your mind works is also on display.
PROUDLY! I never forget that for a minute.
Your mind has argued that irrational revulsion, oppression, discrimination, and hatred of minorities is inevitable.
My mind has argued that it's not.
And now anyone who reads our words can compare our minds and choose their favorite.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteQuoteWhy are straight people (in general) scared of gay people? What danger do we represent?
The fear of the unknown. Personally, i can't envision myself performing felatio on another male, let alone the "other" thing. I'm sorry, IMO it's repulsive and the human body was not even designed to function that way.
I can assure you that neither giving a blow job nor receiving anal penetration is anything even close to repulsive.
Why is it okay for a guy to stick his cock in my mouth or in my ass, but it's not okay for two guys to do the same? Why is it okay for you to eat pussy, and not okay for two women to do the same? What part of any of it is unnatural? Animals engage in homosexual play--are they unnatural?
If sex were only for the purpose of procreation, you might have a point, but it's also for pleasure. If it doesn't pleasure you to have sex with a man, so be it, but that doesn't mean you have reason to say it's repulsive generally, even if it happens to be repulsive to you.
QuoteI'm sorry, IMO it's repulsive and the human body was not even designed to function that way.
No more blow jobs for you.
rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb
QuoteQuoteMaybe there's a whole new sexual preference for us to consider: smart sex.
rl: too much Dr. Phil?
Who is Dr. Phil?
Sorry. Couldn't help it.
I don't watch TV, and I don't read the self-help money-maker of the day. The few things I've heard about him don't impress me. And I'm pretty sure he and I don't mean the same thing when we say "smart sex."
rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb
The "homo-" part of the word is derived from a Latin word meaning "the same," so I think he is confused about it having anything at all to do with mankind.
Correct. The word homo, meaning man, and the prefix homo, meaning same, are Latin homonyms.