Bush authorized domestic wiretaps without warrants

[rushmc 18]

Where have you been?
It is boring without you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,625]

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Where have you been?
It is boring without you

Reading Newsmax, of course, I needed a good laugh.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,625]

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Discuss.
Focus not on whether the wiretaps may have been justified, but whether they should have been authorized without warrants.
You will be graded off for poor grammar or spelling. (My thread; my rules.)

I love this statement from "a senior intelligence official":

He added that the eavesdropping was pronounced lawful by the attorney-general and White House counsel each time before Bush signed off on the program.

Isn't it great that Bush got independent opinions from his AG and his counsel, don't you think?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Sen.Blutarsky 0]

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Isn't it great that Bush got independent opinions from his AG and his counsel, don't you think?

Well, did Clinton obtain independent opinions from his AG and his counsel before he launched a U.S. missile attack which destroyed a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory that was only producing medicines for the poor of Sub-Saharan Africa? Or did he rely on advice from Mrs. Clinton instead?


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

[kallend 1,625]

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Isn't it great that Bush got independent opinions from his AG and his counsel, don't you think?

Well, did Clinton obtain independent opinions from his AG and his counsel before he launched a U.S. missile attack which destroyed a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory that was only producing medicines for the poor of Sub-Saharan Africa? Or did he rely on advice from Mrs. Clinton instead?


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

Didn't he ask his astrologer? Or was that Reagan?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

Few of you, if any, have directly addressed the narrow question (posed by me) of whether it was proper for the administration to have failed to obtain warrants from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Court before authorizing the wiretaps. If this were an essay exam, you'd all get points off for not following directions.

[waltappel 1]

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Where have you been?
It is boring without you

Reading Newsmax, of course, I needed a good laugh.

That's a good one!

Walt

[rushmc 18]

Clinton just got his info from the FBI. Witch of course they are still using today.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Trent 0]

Whether or not you like it, it would appear that you should take it up with your elected representatives... YES, even the one's that are badmouthing the administration on this very issue. They voted for the ability for our law enforcement agencies to do just what they're bitching about. Remember the Patriot Act? It appears they're legal as of now.

Either people can't read or are hypocrites.

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SEC. 214. PEN REGISTER AND TRAP AND TRACE AUTHORITY UNDER FISA.
(a) APPLICATIONS AND ORDERS- Section 402 of the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1842) is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking `for any investigation to gather foreign
intelligence information or information concerning international terrorism' and
inserting `for any investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not
concerning a United States person or to protect against international terrorism
or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a
United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities
protected by the first amendment to the Constitution';

Oh, hello again!

[rushmc 18]

Quote

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Where have you been?
It is boring without you

Reading Newsmax, of course, I needed a good laugh.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

From the AP and reprinted on NewsMax (from the AP!!!)
Sen. John Cornyn: NY Times Endangered U.S. Security



Reprint Information

Reid Seeks Probe of Bush Domestic Spying

Bush Raps Senators for Patriot Act Rejection
Time Honors Bill and Melinda Gates, Bono
Giuliani: U.S. in Peril without Patriot Act
Harry Reid: I Was Briefed on Spy Program


A Republican senator on Saturday accused The New York Times of endangering American security to sell a book by waiting until the day of the terror-fighting Patriot Act reauthorization to report that the government has eavesdropped on people without court-approved warrants.

"At least two senators that I heard with my own ears cited this as a reason why they decided to vote to not allow a bipartisan majority to reauthorize the Patriot Act," said Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas. "Well, as it turns out the author of this article turned in a book three months ago and the paper, The New York Times, failed to reveal that the urgent story was tied to a book release and its sale by its author."

Cornyn did not name the senators in his remarks on the Senate floor.

A call to The New York Times' Washington bureau was referred to spokeswoman Catherine Mathis, who could not be reached immediately.

Times reporter James Risen, who wrote the story, has a book "State of WAR: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration," coming out in the next few weeks, Cornyn said.
"I think it's a crying shame ... that we find that America's safety is endangered by the potential expiration of the Patriot Act in part because a newspaper has seen fit to release on the night before the vote on the floor on the reauthorization of the Patriot Act as part of a marketing campaign for selling a book," Cornyn said.

Since October 2001, the super-secret National Security Agency has, without court-approved warrants, eavesdropped on the international phone calls and e-mails of people inside the United States. President Bush said Saturday that the White House had kept the congressional leadership informed, which a Republican lawmaker confirmed.

But several senators cited the NSA revelation as a reason to uphold a filibuster on the renewal of the expiring portions of the USA Patriot Act - the domestic anti-terrorism law enacted after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 - without getting additional safeguards into the law. Supporters of renewing the law failed to get 60 votes needed to break the filibuster.

Bush on Saturday also attacked the disclosure. "As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "The unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."



© 2005 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[likearock 1]

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Whether or not you like it, it would appear that you should take it up with your elected representatives... YES, even the one's that are badmouthing the administration on this very issue. They voted for the ability for our law enforcement agencies to do just what they're bitching about. Remember the Patriot Act? It appears they're legal as of now.

Either people can't read or are hypocrites.

Quote

SEC. 214. PEN REGISTER AND TRAP AND TRACE AUTHORITY UNDER FISA.
(a) APPLICATIONS AND ORDERS- Section 402 of the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1842) is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking `for any investigation to gather foreign
intelligence information or information concerning international terrorism' and
inserting `for any investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not
concerning a United States person or to protect against international terrorism
or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a
United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities
protected by the first amendment to the Constitution';

Hi Trent. I think a key phrase is "provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution." When things like this come to light, it makes me wonder if even the amended law is being followed.

[rushmc 18]

...and, transcripts from Fox News Sunday. Reid was interviewed by Chris Walace,,, Printed in NewsMax
I saw the interview.....

Sunday, Dec. 18, 2005 11:04 a.m. EST
Harry Reid: I Was Briefed on Spy Program




An uncomfortable Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid admitted on Sunday that he was briefed on the Bush administration's decision to have the NSA monitor domestic communications in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, as reported in the New York Times on Friday.

"I was briefed a couple of months ago," the testy-sounding Democrat told "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace, after complaining: "Listen - the program has been in effect - it's been in effect for four years now."

Reid's admission came only after Wallace pressed him twice about President Bush's claim yesterday that congressional leaders had been briefed on the program.

Asked the first time Reid dodged the question, saying: "[The president] can't pass the buck on this one. This was his program. He's commander in chief. But the commander in chief does not, I think, trump the Bill of Rights."

After Reid finally admitted that he knew about the domestic surveillance program, he again tried to shift blame to the White House, saying: "This is something that's [the responsibility of] the president and the vice president and there's no way he can pass the buck."
The top Democrat declined to explain why he didn't raise objections when he was first briefed on the spy program that suddenly has Democrats and the media up in arms.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,625]

Newsmax is always good for a laugh, isn't it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Trent 0]

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Hi Trent. I think a key phrase is "provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution." When things like this come to light, it makes me wonder if even the amended law is being followed.

Well, since the FISA and PA still require that the Security Comittee get the breifing... we still have a bunch of politicians crying over something that was technically legal and approved by THEM. Not to mention that if they never wanted it to happen in the first place, they'd be more credible if they hadn't voted for the Patriot Act in the first place.

Oh, hello again!

[nathaniel 0]

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Bush on Saturday also attacked the disclosure. "As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "The unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."

Seems like the White House knows all about illegal disclosures of confidential information.

hehe that was too easy

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Amazon 7]

Will the line for the NEW Gestapo please form to the right?

Brown Shirts will be provided.

[likearock 1]

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Hi Trent. I think a key phrase is "provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution." When things like this come to light, it makes me wonder if even the amended law is being followed.

Well, since the FISA and PA still require that the Security Comittee get the breifing... we still have a bunch of politicians crying over something that was technically legal and approved by THEM. Not to mention that if they never wanted it to happen in the first place, they'd be more credible if they hadn't voted for the Patriot Act in the first place.

You're absolutely right. However, after 9/11 the atmosphere was so emotionally charged it was next to impossible to recommend something that could be interpreted as "soft on terrorism". Nevertheless, while the Dems did vote for the Patriot act, they also insisted on the sunset clause to allow the country to re-evalute the statutes after things calmed down. And now that they are calmed down, many people (not just dems) are beginning to have second thoughts about some of the overly-intrusive portions of the original act. For instance, the government shouldn't be able to simply monitor everyone's choice of books at the library. Sure, if they want to identify a person or group of person's, then they should have to authority to monitor them. And this change was adopted and passed by the full Senate although it was later taken out in committee. I hope they put it back.

[Amazon 7]

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And now that they are calmed down, many people (not just dems) are beginning to have second thoughts about some of the overly-intrusive portions of the original act

Except for the people who think the military takeover of our government is inevitable. They want to make it easier. Tommy Frank let it out ... one more attack and Martial Law will be declared. That will be the end of our democracy Not that we ever really had one anyway. Want to bet a really big attack will happen before the next presidential election???

[rushmc 18]

twist twist twist

the story is not from newsmax (but from and iterview) but that doesn't matter to you..........

cause you can't refute the facts so attack the soruce.(even though you got the souce of the "info"wrong)

typical........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Bush on Saturday also attacked the disclosure. "As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "The unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."

Seems like the White House knows all about illegal disclosures of confidential information.

hehe that was too easy

no other comments? just a comment on one part that you enjoyed?

once again.....typical

Somboby throws the chum, the sharks circle, and once agian there is nothing to eat......poor sharks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

More bad news for the poor hungry sharks...

look, you want to debate the merits of the program then lets go. I have some questions about this myself but, if you like the debate because you think it is a political gotcha.......well, you got nothin there.....

Nancy Pelosi: I Was Briefed on NSA Program


House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi confessed late Saturday that she signed off on President Bush's decision to have a top intelligence agency conduct "unspecified activities" to gather intelligence on possible terrorists operating inside the U.S. in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

"I was advised of President Bush's decision to provide authority to the National Security Agency to conduct unspecified activities shortly after he made it and have been provided with updates on several occasions," Pelosi admitted.

The San Francisco Democrat claimed she expressed "strong concerns" about the "unspecified activities" at the time, but offered no evidence to that effect.

Pelosi declined to explain why she didn't make public her concerns about the authorization, which Democrats now say was an outrageous abuse of civil rights.

Instead, Pelosi admitted keeping silent about the "unspecified activities" even though she now believes they may have been illegal, saying Bush's acknowledgment of the NSA program on Saturday "raises serious questions as to what the activities were and whether the activities were lawful."
On Sunday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid also admitted he kept silent about the controversial program, even though he was briefed on its existence "a couple of months ago."

Still, he insisted that it made no difference that Democratic congressional leaders knew about the NSA program, telling Fox News Sunday: "This is something that's [the responsibility of] the president and the vice president and there's no way he can pass the buck."

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Oh no the lefts favorite Republican backs the program

John McCain: Bush Right to Use NSA

Sen. John McCain disappointed Democrats on Capitol Hill on Sunday by defending the Bush administration's decision to use the National Security Agency to monitor a limited number of domestic phone calls in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

Saying that Sept. 11 "changed everything," McCain told ABC's "This Week": "The president, I think, has the right to do this."

"We all know that since Sept. 11 we have new challenges with enemies that exist within the United States of America - so the equation has changed."

McCain said that while the administration needs to explain why it didn't first seek approval from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, he suggested that the Patriot Act might have superseded the 1978 FISA Act, allowing "additional powers for the president."


McCain said the fact that congressional leaders - including top Democrats - were consulted on the NSA authorization "is a very important part of this equation." He suggested that any congressional hearings into the Bush decision focus on that aspect.
"I'd like to hear from the leaders of Congress, both Republican and Democrat, who, according to reports, we're briefed on this and agreed to it," he told "This Week." "They didn't raise any objection, apparently, to [whether] there was a, quote, violation of law."

Asked about House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's claim that she "raised concerns" about granting the NSA new powers during one meeting with White House officials, McCain said: "I don't know about any meetings, but I certainly never heard complaints from anyone on either side of the aisle.

"When this process was being carried out I would imagine that the leaders of Congress would be very concerned about any violation of law as well," he said. "Apparently [those concerns have] not been raised until it was published in the New York Times."

McCain also warned that any congressional investigation should take care not to force additional disclosures from the White House that could help the enemy, saying: "I don't see anything wrong with congressional hearings but what kind of information are you going to put into the public arena that might help the al Qaida people in going undetected."

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 126]

So just when is it OK to bring the President up on federal charges?

After he makes up WMD stories and invades a country?

After his army kills tens of thousands of people?

After he breaks the rules about torture?

Or now after he invades the privacy of others with domestic spying.

I bet this one has more attention fromt eh American public than ALL the others combined....

He is a crook, and if this was the leader of any other country, we would be asking the UN to prosecute him on charges of Genocide (and many other things)

TK

[TheAnvil 0]

Congressional oversight for this was apparently in place. The individual who leaked this information to the press should be found, tried, and executed.

Funny how I don't see any of the leftists who were screaming about leaks compromising national security during the Plame affair currently up in arms about this leak of classified information. I guess we just can't take them seriously when they claim to be concerned about such things. After all, none of them were upset at the pathetically lame sentence given to Mr. Berger for pilfering documents out of the national archives. He should never have been let out of prison and at a minimum barred from EVER holding a clearance again.

Disgusting.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!