wmw999 2,121 #51 December 15, 2005 QuoteMuch like "Birth defect" we try and prevent, or anything "Unusual" would be "fixed"Well, actually, birth defects that used to be lethal or life-shortening aren't any longer, and some of the people suffering from them now reproduce where they didn't used to. Cystic fibrosis comes to mind. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #52 December 16, 2005 Human evolution has stopped in the western world. Modern medicine is giving nearly everyone a chance to breed. Things that were lethal 100 years ago are fixed on a routine basis. Bad genes get passed on. As a matter of fact, I believe that in the western world the human race has started to devolve. The gene pool is less healthy than it was a couple hundred years ago. Evolution continues in developing countries where life is harsh and medical attention is hard to come by. Individuals with more resistance to bacteria in the water or individuals who can survive with less food have a better chance to pass their genes to their offspring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #53 December 16, 2005 QuoteHuman evolution has stopped in the western world. Modern medicine is giving nearly everyone a chance to breed. Things that were lethal 100 years ago are fixed on a routine basis. Bad genes get passed on. completely agree that our physical evolution it stunted It leads to a position that only mental evolution occurs once a race reaches a certain point of medical competence - this can be read as either a stopping point in evolution of a species or just the opposite, an acceleration. The key in which is really true is whether mental and physical evolution go hand in hand or can be independent ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #54 December 16, 2005 Do you mean evolution in the Darwinian sense or are you using a wider meaning there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #55 December 16, 2005 So what you are saying is that there are more dumbasses around to procreate and pass on their dumbass genes. I can agree with that. I can hear Red Foreman saying "Dumbass" right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ernokaikkonen 0 #56 December 16, 2005 QuoteSo what you are saying is that there are more dumbasses around to procreate and pass on their dumbass genes. Yes! These days, being a dumbass doesn't mean that you're going to be Simba's lunch. However, if you're really dumb, you'll end up on Darwin Awards by blowing your nuts off or something. Maybe there's still hope... Just kidding. The human race is doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #57 December 16, 2005 >Human evolution has stopped in the western world. I disagree somewhat. We're just evolving in a different direction. For example, people having children later in life selects for longer lives overall. People who are prone to getting very obese, prone to drug abuse or alcoholism etc tend to not survive as well as people who are not prone to those things. And although modern medicine helps _some_ of these people survive to childbearing age, not all do - and so those traits are selected against. But I think you're right in that we are no longer evolving for strength, speed, general health etc because those things are no longer that important in a mechanized, medically advanced society. >I believe that in the western world the human race has started to devolve. Depends on what you mean by devolve. "Evolve" means to adapt to better fit one's environment. We may be evolving quite well to live in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment. Now, whether that's a good thing or not is a different question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #58 December 16, 2005 QuotePeople who are prone to getting very obese, prone to drug abuse or alcoholism etc tend to not survive as well as people who are not prone to those things. And although modern medicine helps _some_ of these people survive to childbearing age, not all do - and so those traits are selected against. And some of these people even help the selection process by realizing that they shouldn't have children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ernokaikkonen 0 #59 December 17, 2005 Quote For example, people having children later in life selects for longer lives overall. Does it? The genes don't care how long you live, they just care about how long you are able to breed. For this reason diseases such as Alzheimer's will not be eradicated by evolution, since the people it affects are not going to breed anyway. Having children later in life wont select for longer lives until people are breeding until their death. QuoteDepends on what you mean by devolve. "Evolve" means to adapt to better fit one's environment. We may be evolving quite well to live in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment. Oops. I actually thought that "devolve" is a real word. Well, it is, but not in the sense I was using it("evolving backwards"). What kind of traits do you think would be selected for in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment? Can you think of any traits that would actually improve an individuals chances of breeding in such an environment? Resistance to diabetes? Diabetes is quite treatable a the moment. Of course, since it still does kill people, people prone to diabetes are slowly selected against. What else? Can you think of any traits that used to be beneficial but are now working against us? The next question is: Is our sugar-rich, couch-filled environment going to survive for long enough for evolution to have chance to do its thing? Things are changing so rapidly in the modern society that there may not be an environment long-lived enough for evolution to take place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #60 December 17, 2005 Interesting and entertaining reading. Is this your own collection of theorems? I like theorem 6B ("NOMA") the most, because it doesn't ridicule faith, but at the same time, embraces the merit of scientific knowledge. The best thing an adherent to the scientific method can say is - "We've learned all kinds of fascinating things, but every answer generates new questions." Intellectual curiosity reveals the wonders of the universe and thereby the spiritual, if one chooses to see it that way. There is a quote by Einstein which supports that credo. mh mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #61 December 17, 2005 Billvon: Your entire thread is one of the most ridiculous ever put on DZ.com. It shows what the scriptures say to be true, that " God uses the simple things to confound the wise" (in their own eyes.) The wisdom of man is foolishness with God. HOW TRUE. Bill Cole. Incidentally, the story of the great flood of Noah which too pl;ace in the year of the world 1656, was written of by Moses, who died in the year 1541.B.C. It would be hard to have had Moses take the account of the floodfrom Islam, the pagan istic religion of all time, when Mohammed wasnt even born until approx 700 A.D. It would seem that Islam took the story from Moses...Islam is not only a murderous religion, but one of thieves as well. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #62 December 17, 2005 >The genes don't care how long you live, they just care about how long you are able to breed. That is 100% right! And if people in general start having kids at age 35, then all that will change is that survival to at least age 35 will be selected for. That will, on average, tend to extend _average_ lifetimes, since genes that result in greater likelihood of death by age 35 will be selected against. >Of course, since it still does kill people, people prone to diabetes are >slowly selected against. That's a good example. >What else? Can you think of any traits that used to be beneficial but are >now working against us? Resistance to athersclerosis will be selected for; ability to generate and store a lot of fat will be selected against. Not being able to put on weight used to be deadly (they'd starve in the winter!) but now results in a greater likelihood of reproduction. We'll also continue to select for attractiveness; selection for sexual traits is pretty strong, and leads to some very 'silly' evolutionary results (like the peacock's tail.) This is harder to predict because sexual desireability is a product of both genetic programming and societal influences. >The next question is: Is our sugar-rich, couch-filled environment going to > survive for long enough for evolution to have chance to do its thing? I think in the long run, we will continue the trend towards people getting more of the stuff they want (unless we destroy the planet, that is!) That, in turn, will tend to select for people with enough self-control to avoid eating or drinking themselves to death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #63 December 17, 2005 Quote. . . sexual desireability is a product of both genetic programming and societal influences. And beer. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #64 December 18, 2005 >The wisdom of man is foolishness with God. If the USA doesn't really come to an end within five years according to Biblical prophecies, will you reconsider the wisdom of those prophecies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #65 December 20, 2005 All of the prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled, EXCEPT for the prophecies of the end times, which is the time in which this world is now existing. Don't blink, or you'll miss the best part. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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beowulf 1 #55 December 16, 2005 So what you are saying is that there are more dumbasses around to procreate and pass on their dumbass genes. I can agree with that. I can hear Red Foreman saying "Dumbass" right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #56 December 16, 2005 QuoteSo what you are saying is that there are more dumbasses around to procreate and pass on their dumbass genes. Yes! These days, being a dumbass doesn't mean that you're going to be Simba's lunch. However, if you're really dumb, you'll end up on Darwin Awards by blowing your nuts off or something. Maybe there's still hope... Just kidding. The human race is doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #57 December 16, 2005 >Human evolution has stopped in the western world. I disagree somewhat. We're just evolving in a different direction. For example, people having children later in life selects for longer lives overall. People who are prone to getting very obese, prone to drug abuse or alcoholism etc tend to not survive as well as people who are not prone to those things. And although modern medicine helps _some_ of these people survive to childbearing age, not all do - and so those traits are selected against. But I think you're right in that we are no longer evolving for strength, speed, general health etc because those things are no longer that important in a mechanized, medically advanced society. >I believe that in the western world the human race has started to devolve. Depends on what you mean by devolve. "Evolve" means to adapt to better fit one's environment. We may be evolving quite well to live in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment. Now, whether that's a good thing or not is a different question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #58 December 16, 2005 QuotePeople who are prone to getting very obese, prone to drug abuse or alcoholism etc tend to not survive as well as people who are not prone to those things. And although modern medicine helps _some_ of these people survive to childbearing age, not all do - and so those traits are selected against. And some of these people even help the selection process by realizing that they shouldn't have children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #59 December 17, 2005 Quote For example, people having children later in life selects for longer lives overall. Does it? The genes don't care how long you live, they just care about how long you are able to breed. For this reason diseases such as Alzheimer's will not be eradicated by evolution, since the people it affects are not going to breed anyway. Having children later in life wont select for longer lives until people are breeding until their death. QuoteDepends on what you mean by devolve. "Evolve" means to adapt to better fit one's environment. We may be evolving quite well to live in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment. Oops. I actually thought that "devolve" is a real word. Well, it is, but not in the sense I was using it("evolving backwards"). What kind of traits do you think would be selected for in a sugar-rich, couch-filled environment? Can you think of any traits that would actually improve an individuals chances of breeding in such an environment? Resistance to diabetes? Diabetes is quite treatable a the moment. Of course, since it still does kill people, people prone to diabetes are slowly selected against. What else? Can you think of any traits that used to be beneficial but are now working against us? The next question is: Is our sugar-rich, couch-filled environment going to survive for long enough for evolution to have chance to do its thing? Things are changing so rapidly in the modern society that there may not be an environment long-lived enough for evolution to take place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #60 December 17, 2005 Interesting and entertaining reading. Is this your own collection of theorems? I like theorem 6B ("NOMA") the most, because it doesn't ridicule faith, but at the same time, embraces the merit of scientific knowledge. The best thing an adherent to the scientific method can say is - "We've learned all kinds of fascinating things, but every answer generates new questions." Intellectual curiosity reveals the wonders of the universe and thereby the spiritual, if one chooses to see it that way. There is a quote by Einstein which supports that credo. mh mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #61 December 17, 2005 Billvon: Your entire thread is one of the most ridiculous ever put on DZ.com. It shows what the scriptures say to be true, that " God uses the simple things to confound the wise" (in their own eyes.) The wisdom of man is foolishness with God. HOW TRUE. Bill Cole. Incidentally, the story of the great flood of Noah which too pl;ace in the year of the world 1656, was written of by Moses, who died in the year 1541.B.C. It would be hard to have had Moses take the account of the floodfrom Islam, the pagan istic religion of all time, when Mohammed wasnt even born until approx 700 A.D. It would seem that Islam took the story from Moses...Islam is not only a murderous religion, but one of thieves as well. Bill Cole . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #62 December 17, 2005 >The genes don't care how long you live, they just care about how long you are able to breed. That is 100% right! And if people in general start having kids at age 35, then all that will change is that survival to at least age 35 will be selected for. That will, on average, tend to extend _average_ lifetimes, since genes that result in greater likelihood of death by age 35 will be selected against. >Of course, since it still does kill people, people prone to diabetes are >slowly selected against. That's a good example. >What else? Can you think of any traits that used to be beneficial but are >now working against us? Resistance to athersclerosis will be selected for; ability to generate and store a lot of fat will be selected against. Not being able to put on weight used to be deadly (they'd starve in the winter!) but now results in a greater likelihood of reproduction. We'll also continue to select for attractiveness; selection for sexual traits is pretty strong, and leads to some very 'silly' evolutionary results (like the peacock's tail.) This is harder to predict because sexual desireability is a product of both genetic programming and societal influences. >The next question is: Is our sugar-rich, couch-filled environment going to > survive for long enough for evolution to have chance to do its thing? I think in the long run, we will continue the trend towards people getting more of the stuff they want (unless we destroy the planet, that is!) That, in turn, will tend to select for people with enough self-control to avoid eating or drinking themselves to death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #63 December 17, 2005 Quote. . . sexual desireability is a product of both genetic programming and societal influences. And beer. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #64 December 18, 2005 >The wisdom of man is foolishness with God. If the USA doesn't really come to an end within five years according to Biblical prophecies, will you reconsider the wisdom of those prophecies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #65 December 20, 2005 All of the prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled, EXCEPT for the prophecies of the end times, which is the time in which this world is now existing. Don't blink, or you'll miss the best part. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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