Should "Bobby" get a gun?

[miked10270 0]

Two female police officers were recently shot & killed in Bradford (a small town in the English Midlands).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4451640.stm

At present, British Police Officers are routinely equipped with bullet & stab resistant vests, batons, rigid cuffs & CS spray.

Firearms are only issued (usually from the local force headquarters) on the orders of a VERY senior officer.

So... At the risk of restarting a very old debate... Should Britain follow the rest of the world and routinely arm it's police officers in the course of their day-to-day duties)?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Skyrad 0]

You're foggeting about the Trojan units that routinly drive around our streets. I don't think that they should arm all Police officers. If those two WPCs had been armed by the sounds of it they'd still be shot and possibly their firearms would be out on the streets somewhere.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[miked10270 0]

I'm not forgetting about the Armed Response Units. Before they can "unlock" their gun safe, they need verified authorisation from a "Chief Police Officer". Also, outwith London, ARUs are few and far between!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[shropshire 0]

The idea of Mr & Mrs Average copper with a gun scares the shite out of me.
We want Me plod, cycling down leafy lanes whistling a happy tune and cuffing young scrumpers about the ear..... not struting around like Rambo.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

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The idea of Mr & Mrs Average copper with a gun scares the shite out of me.

The idea that you would have such a fear of the average police officer with a gun says much about the pigs out there.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[justinb138 0]

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If those two WPCs had been armed by the sounds of it they'd still be shot and possibly their firearms would be out on the streets somewhere.

It doesn't happen too often here where nearly all officers have firearms, and seeing as how they were both shot, worrying about their guns ending up on the street is kind of a moot point.

[JohnRich 4]

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Should Britain arm it's police officers

Are you crazy? Someone might get hurt! Far better to leave the police and populace unarmed against the criminal thugs. That's the formula for peace and security!

Now let's all join hands, sway to and fro, and sing "We are the world..."

[JohnRich 4]

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seeing as how they were both shot, worrying about their guns ending up on the street is kind of a moot point.

Oh come on now. It's far better that two police officers die for sure with no defense, than to have two guns out on the street where they may or may not be used in lesser crimes. Use your head, man! A gun on the loose is worse than a dead cop!

From the story:

"The police service are being outgunned on the streets of Britain day and night."

But, but, I thought that England didn't have a gun problem since all handguns and semi-auto long guns were confiscated eight years ago. So where are all these crime guns coming from?

Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, called on the courts to issue stiffer punishments to offenders caught carrying weapons. "They should get the very maximum sentences - throw away the key," he said.

So let's see; an unarmed cop will confront an armed thug, who if arrested will automatically serve a very long prison sentence. The thug therefore has nothing to lose, and has the power with his gun to kill the cop who is trying to arrest him and put him away... Oh yeah, that will solve the problem of cops being shot by thugs!

"The police service are being outgunned on the streets of Britain day and night."

But, but, I thought that England didn't have a gun problem since all handguns and semi-auto long guns were confiscated eight years ago. So where are all these crime guns coming from?

Citing time spent with the American FBI, he said officers often were shot with their own weapons by attackers.
"And of course you have more risk of accidents..." he told Radio Five Live.

"Often"? How many times does it have to happen to be "often"? According to the FBI, out of all the cops in the U.S. last year, only four were killed with their own firearm, and four were killed accidentally with guns. Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/openpage.htm

So if the average street cops didn't have guns, "maybe" these eight cops would not have been killed. But then, what's the other side of the equation? How many more cops would have been killed if they had not had guns with which to defend themselves? I think that death toll would be far higher than just eight...

[shropshire 0]

<> - Yes, you're right

Listening to the news that has covered this tory rather a lot (and rightly so), it appears that these 2 relatively inexperienced officers should not have been sent to this call.

Calling for ALL officers to be armed is a knee-jerk reaction and NOT supported by many of the officers that have responded in the media.

Do I want to see ALL officers armed - NO,
Do I want to know that there are more armed officers available - YES.

Those are not mutally exclusive or contradictory.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[justinb138 0]

If you don't trust a police officer enough to carry a gun, why are they trusted enough to be a police officer anyway?

[shropshire 0]

<> - I completely agree with this part of your post..... not too sure about the rest tho....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

What percentage of officers would you like to see armed? Or, what what would you propose to be the qualifications for an officer to be armed?

I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'd just like to see what people are looking for.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shropshire 0]

<> - I guess because I'm not the one recruiting them.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

<> - Never thought that you were.... they're perfectly sensible questions.

I'm not too sure about the actual % (thinking off the cuff here)

The way I currently see it.... I'd rather not see armed officiers on the streets (I'm not sure that we need them and the ones in airports are a complete laugh and only there for show IMHO).
I would like to see the police have more and rapid access to weapons. Clearly for highly trained, experienced professionals. I dont know enough about firearms (only did a couple of days a year in the forces!!) so I'm not qualified to answer that (Probably not even to join in this topic).

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Quote

Should Britain arm it's police officers

Are you crazy? Someone might get hurt! Far better to leave the police and populace unarmed against the criminal thugs. That's the formula for peace and security!

Now let's all join hands, sway to and fro, and sing "We are the world..."

Seriously...
I mean...they're police officers for crying out loud.
Trained and sworn to protect the public.
Can't trust them with firearms like all the thugs have.
They might shoot somebody.

Ohh.....the insanity.

[lawrocket 3]

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would like to see the police have more and rapid access to weapons.

This is the key problem. The only time that you know for sure that you need a weapon is when you are facing one. Usually, the person pulling a gun on you will not allow you the opportunity to access a weapon. What you are left with is the hope to use some mental skills to negotiate (which takes some serious training) or to use some hand-to-hand techniques to disarm the threat (which is extremely dangerous to someone who is perfectly trained, and probably counterproductive to one who is not well-trained.

The only way for a patrol cop to have quick and ready access to a weapon is to have one on his or her person. It's life and death out there.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Scoop 0]

I am one of those 'pigs' as you so politely put it. Well, a part time pig. I wouldnt want to be armed. If it came to it Id do it. But I wouldnt volunteer for it. If you knew how the british police forces treated its employees when they did something thats a little bit serious youd understand. IE no support whatsoever. They will arrest their own staff, make them step down from duties and throw the book at them. Just so the public know that they arent covering anything up.

Ive got colleagues who have been attacked on duty and in some cases an attempt has been made on there life. Ive seen collagues of mine who have also killed a member of the public in a pursuit. Ive had to defend myself in a couple of bad situations too BUT I WOULDNT WANT TO BE ARMED. I wouldnt want the resulting actions on my conscience. And for that matter, some of the people I wouldnt want to see armed. They are bad enough with a can of pepper spray.

And besides, shooting someone.... It really isnt worth the paperwork.

[j0nes 0]

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Should Britain follow the rest of the world and routinely arm it's police officers in the course of their day-to-day duties)?

ANYONE without a criminal record who has taken the proper training should be allowed to carry a firearm to protect themselves and their loved ones.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Listening to the news that has covered this tory rather a lot (and rightly so), it appears that these 2 relatively inexperienced officers should not have been sent to this call.

Do more experienced officers learn how to survive getting shot? Or just when to run?

The article had some funny (odd) lines. I don't believe for an instant that the FBI have a big problem with officers getting shot with their own guns. If so, the owner only firearms technology would be more than a gun controller's backdoor to a gun ban.

And I do think that if all the Bobbies were carrying, that the criminals are more likely to do the same. And guns of a matching caliber - no more .22s.

Not an easy call for you guys to make, esp if a lot of the cops don't even want them.

BTW, having them carry them in their vehicles at all times sounds like an announcement to bad guys of an easy source to steal high quality guns.

[shropshire 0]

<> - Not in the country that I call home and I'm sure that I'm not alone in that belief. We do NOT need guns, thank you.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

<>
O.K 1 every few of years is too many but we just do not have a hight incidence of gun crime here.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Stumpy 256]

I think its telling that we have one WPC shot and it makes national newspapers and is a massive shock all over the country because it VIRTUALLY NEVER HAPPENS.....

But you may disagree

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kallend 1,644]

Quote

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Should Britain arm it's police officers

Are you crazy? Someone might get hurt!

Like this? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4158832.stm

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

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We do NOT need guns, thank you.

You don't need 'em, but you've got a whole shitload of the wrong people who have 'em. Why don't the right people have any? Oh, yeah, you made that illegal. Good move, that one.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ViperPilot 0]

Yeah, doesn't make sense to allow criminals to run around with guns unopposed by cops with sticks. What's the rationale behind unarmed cops? Seriously, I want to hear a good reason as to why a cop should carry a club why the bad guys carry firearms. Is there a big, hilarious joke in Britain about severely disadvantaging the police? Enlighten me.