Why we are in Iraq.........or one of 5000 reasons

[freeflir29 0]

http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2003/24689.htm




This is just one series of villages and one day of Saddam's crimes. Only 5000 of the estimated 180,000 Kurds that were killed by Saddam..........and that's just the Kurds. Untold numbers of Arab Iraqis ended up in mass graves. So liberals.............tell me again why we shouldn't be here?

[billvon 2,473]

>So liberals.............tell me again why we shouldn't be here?

Well, here are 26,000 people who might disagree if they could:

http://www.iraqbodycount.com/forum/

[freeflir29 0]

Yes and how many of those were combatants? Who counted these? How many have been killed by insurgent car bombs as well as executed by insurgents?

[billvon 2,473]

>Yes and how many of those were combatants?

Of your 5000, how many were insurgents? Who counted those? How many were killed by other Iraqis?

I think it's sad that we have been reduced to "well, at least we're somewhat better than Saddam Hussein." There was a time when we chose our own moral standards, rather than justifying our actions by saying we're slightly better than our enemies.

[juanesky 0]

Don't you know that they are all inocent bystanders?

Good luck over there my friend, and send my regards to hajij..

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[freeflir29 0]

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send my regards to hajij..

I'll try but you have to write REALLY small on .223 ammunition.

[StreetScooby 5]

So, do you think Iraq is descending into chaos and civil war, and is that just our liberal media?

We are all engines of karma

[freeflir29 0]

There would most certainly be one if the US left. As long as we are here it won't happen. We're holding the leashes and making everyone play nice. Trust me.........I sat in a meeting the other day and mostly the Iraqi officials just like to call each other names BUT they also walk out of meetings shaking hands NORMALLY. Money talks here and all the US has to do is threaten to take the check book and go home and all these big tough warlords are suddenly willing to play nice.

[FallRate 0]

So who's the redhead in the your avatar? She looks nothing like a sheep!

FallRate

[lisamariewillbe 1]

shes not a red head either jeesh whys everyone think I have red hair .... BTW its a horrible pic of me, I was drunk

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[jkm2500 0]

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This is just one series of villages and one day of Saddam's crimes. Only 5000 of the estimated 180,000 Kurds that were killed by Saddam..........and that's just the Kurds. Untold numbers of Arab Iraqis ended up in mass graves. So liberals.............tell me again why we shouldn't be here?

There are people that no matter what evidence is presented, will only hear what they want. There is a guy at school that was born in An Nasiriyah, and fled with his parents to the US about 10 years ago. He would thank me for going over there almost on a daily basis.

Morally, I think that we are obligated to be involved in the many conflicts and problems in the world. I think that it is despicable that we so concerned with the impact on "our" lives, especially when there are literally thousands of people dying.

If we are supposed to hold the moral high ground, how can we stand idly by and watch people being killed? Too much commitment? too much money? too much reality? Those people are dead, and no amount of ridiculous "sanctions" are going to stop it.

The moral high ground is held by people who are willing to do what it takes to be moral. Not by those willing to let people die, merely because it isnt headlining our news agencies.

I thank you for what you are doing over there. I will be back over there in a few more years. Don't have too much fun, and be safe.

Oh, and I know why we are over there.

Sorry about the rant

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[billvon 2,473]

>The moral high ground is held by people who are willing to do what
> it takes to be moral. Not by those willing to let people die . . .

. . . but by those willing to do the killing.

[jkm2500 0]

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. . but by those willing to do the killing.

So you are saying that it is OK to stand by and let genocide happen because "we" shouldn't kill anyone?


edit:spelling

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[billvon 2,473]

>So you are saying that it is OK to stand by and let genocide
>happens because "we" shouldn't kill anyone?

Nope. But if you:

a) originally support said genocide because it's politically convenient
b) later oppose it for political reasons and
c) then start killing people at about the same rate

then you don't really have the moral high horse.

[christelsabine 1]

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. . but by those willing to do the killing.

So you are saying that it is OK to stand by and let genocide happen because "we" shouldn't kill anyone?


edit:spelling

Oh, I'm a dummy!

Now I really know that the US invaded the Iraq b/c they tried to prevent a possible genocide...

What a fool I am. I thought it was a matter of WMD....Or what did he say...?? Wait a second...

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kallend 1,679]

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. . but by those willing to do the killing.

So you are saying that it is OK to stand by and let genocide happen because "we" shouldn't kill anyone?


edit:spelling

Oh, I'm a dummy!

Now I really know that the US invaded the Iraq b/c they tried to prevent a possible genocide...

What a fool I am. I thought it was a matter of WMD....Or what did he say...?? Wait a second...

Here's an explanation: (there are several more speeches in the same vein).
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rhino 0]

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I'll try but you have to write REALLY small on .223 ammunition. Laugh

That's my homie!!! Be A MAN and upgrade to a bigger round!

[Loonix 0]

The reason you are there, is to stop the iraqi WMD program. Some ranting about al qaida/bin laden hiding there were also mentioned in the early stages of preperation/propaganda, if im not mistaken. This was all of course bullshit, as Hans Blix of the UN said already before the war.

Now, this doesn't mean the war isnt justifyable, it just proves incompetence of the US government.

So, you say that by america being there, less people are killed than with saddam hussein as the dictator. Then let me ask you this: WHY IRAQ?! if saving people is what you want, go to friggin' africa. Stop starvation, poverty all around the globe. With the money spent on the war, you could do incredibly much good. Why don't you?

If "doing good" to people is all you care about, how about letting african countries purchase AIDS medicines at affordable prices? That is not being done now because the big companies are earning too much money. Can't see how the government should be unable to fix that. This is just one example...

Could it be that this war is most of all about politics?

Lets mention afghanistan while we're at it... How much control does US forces have there at the moment? How about close to none? Some control over Kabul is pretty much all that remains. But it is all about Iraq now. It'll be "fun" to see what happens in Iraq when US forces finally move out, and goes to Iran or North Korea (or wherever..).

At last I'd like to say that the US better STAY in iraq for a while now. What is done, is done, and if they move out, hell will break loose.

edit: a couple of spelling errors..

[freeflir29 0]

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That's my homie!!! Be A MAN and upgrade to a bigger round!

Fuck that. The only thing we have bigger is a 240B. I'm not Arnold in a movie and that 240B is just TOO DAMN HEAVY and awkward. The Para-SAW is where it's at for a light manueverable belt fed weapon.

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go to friggin' africa

There's a fairly high possibility I could be there next. In fact my company already has people doing things there. Personally I'd rather go to South America. So much of the population in Africa are idiots and beyond helping themselves. But........if they pay me well I will try.

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how about letting african countries purchase AIDS medicines at affordable prices?

Damn damn damn...........where did I leave my magic wand? Oh well.......I have an idea.....you call the guy in charge of this and tell him Clay said to do it right now!

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Could it be that this war is most of all about politics?

Being that we are desperately trying to get the Iraqis to form their own self sustaining government........SURE you could say that.

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At last I'd like to say that the US better STAY in iraq for a while now. What is done, is done, and if they move out, hell will break loose.

Holy SHIT!!!!!!!!! You said something sensible. Yes.......there would be a civil war about 4 minutes after the last CF soldier stepped foot on a plane out of this country.

[dropoutdave 0]

Tell me again why we shouldn't be in Zimbabwe, for example, right now? I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head.

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May Contain Nut traces......

[bodypilot90 0]

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If "doing good" to people is all you care about, how about letting african countries purchase AIDS medicines at affordable prices? That is not being done now because the big companies are earning too much money. Can't see how the government should be unable to fix that. This is just one example...

I think you really mean give it away, don't you. Why do they have aids? All they have to do is not have sex. What does that cost.....nothing.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2003/24689.htm




This is just one series of villages and one day of Saddam's crimes. Only 5000 of the estimated 180,000 Kurds that were killed by Saddam..........and that's just the Kurds. Untold numbers of Arab Iraqis ended up in mass graves. So liberals.............tell me again why we shouldn't be here?

Well, it would makes sense....if the actual reason we went there in the first place was to stop his crimes against human rights.

Unfortunately, that is just the SUBSTITUTE reason.

Do you really think that if Saddam had not moved against one of our allies during the first Gulf War, we would have gave a rats's ass about "poor Iraqi's"? No, the first War was motivated by a threat to a friend. The second was motivated by bad intelligence and misplaced zeal to find the bad guy. It had VERY LITTLE to do with the plight of the Iraqi people.

If 9/11 had never happened and the Gulf war had never happened, we would not be there right now. And the Iraqi people would still be under Saddam's rule.

That we did it to help them is bullshit and spin created when the first reason failed. We did not go there out of the goodness of our hearts.

But if you are going to say that we should be there because of mass killings and atrocities, I suggest we go take out every other dictator, government, rebel group who does the same. We better head back to Africa straight away then. We start in Zimbabwe. After, we can go to Sudan, Burma, Turkmenistan, many others, and we can wrap it up with North Korea. I figure we can be done by the time the sun burns out or the nuclear winter sets in, which ever comes first.

In hindsight, yes it is good, but do NOT try to say that we started this war to HELP the Iraqi people. It my be a byproduct, but not the main reason no matter what spin cycle you set your washer to.

We are stuck there now. Leaving would be worse than anything. But let's not delude ourselves as to WHY we are there.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[kallend 1,679]

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We are stuck there now. Leaving would be worse than anything.

I don't think it would be worse than anything. I would be delighted if we left tomorrow and no more US boys got killed or wounded.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Loonix 0]

your childish reply tells me one thing: you have no real arguments left...

to everyone who is whining about uncalled for america-bashing, the attitude of freeflir29 is THE reason for it. It really fires up under the ignorant and arrogant american stereotype. "its easy, just stop having sex", "they are too dumb and beyond help", "we are trying to make these pigs survive on their own" .... get the drift? It is as if a certain someone has seen too many hollywood movies, where the good guys are all good, and the bad guys are all bad (and speak bad english)

[Loonix 0]

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I would be delighted if we left tomorrow and no more US boys got killed or wounded.

what, just to REALLY fuck things up? The US went in there for no good reason, but that is past now. At least have the decency to fix the mess that is created, or hell will break loose, with husseins regime looking like a playground in comparison.