Someone else 'using' their dead son

[billvon 2,433]

The media was trumpeting this story over the weekend:


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Bush supporters create opposing camp
Saturday, August 20, 2005

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- A pro-Bush camp with a "God Bless Our President!" banner sprung up downtown Saturday, countering the anti-war demonstration started by a fallen soldier's mother two weeks ago near President Bush's ranch.

The camp is named "Fort Qualls," in memory of Marine Lance Cpl. Louis Wayne Qualls, 20, who died in Iraq last fall.

"If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I'll do that," said the soldier's father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision.

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To use the right-wingers logic on this, apparently a man is using his dead son to support some activist's radical right-wing agenda, and apparently is willing to see his whole family killed to support his politics. Remhwa? Pajarito? Dorbie? Rushmc? Waiting on your condemnation of this sick wacko.

[skycop 0]

Two wrongs don't make a right. We will have to see how far he goes before he becomes the complete opposite of Mrs. Sheehan.
I wonder if this man has already met with the president, but still wants another meeting for furthering his political agenda.
There are extremes on both sides, these kinds of emotions bring out the fringe.

Gosh Bill, maybe FOX News will back this guy like MOVEON.org backs Mrs.Sheehan, at least in your mind..........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[tcnelson 1]

they're saying, "i see your protest and i raise you another..."

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yeah, but "they" started it.

[rehmwa 2]

1 - Poor guy - it's a shame he lost his son(s). I hope he finds closure in supporting the choices of his family.

2 - Too bad the AP has to publish this action - as "countering the anti-war demonstration". It's an independent event and that moves the article from fact to something less professional.

3 - He seems to be in better control of himself than the other. i.e., he's taking an action that at least supports the decisions of his kids and not belittles.

4 - This is something from his personal life - and I'd prefer he keep it personal rather than make an event of it. And if this guy is not doing that, then the media should stay out also. And if he's 'reacting' to the woman's camp, then he's giving her action more validity than it deserves.

5 - He didn't sacrifice his family. They chose to serve. I'm grateful to the family for their service and am saddened they are gone.

6 - This is sad as looks like a poor mockery of the other protest. I wonder if this is his home town, though or if he traveled to Texas to counter what's-her-name. That would make a difference to me in how to read this thing - if it's local, well that's just the community supporting their own. It's a ton different than going all the way to some guy's ranch and sitting on his step.....


What gets me is the self-importance of these people (her and him). They can get over it on there own as a deeply personal thing rather than make hay with it. Why share it with the world? Why make it political.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,433]

>They can get over it on there own as a deeply personal thing rather than make hay with it.

Have you heard that either is making money on their protests?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Why share it with the world? Why make it political.

Think of it as an American equivalent to the suicide bomber. They are just ordinary folks doing whatever it takes to bring attention to their perceived plight.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It is okay to practice our rights, right? The criticisms of these activists (not yours specifically, rehmwa) make it seem like peaceful activism is a bad thing, and should be ignored. What options does that leave for those who feel it is important to get their message out?

I guess they could follow Eric Rudolph's lead.

[j0nes 0]

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Have you heard that either is making money on their protests?

SGLI baby. Soldier's Group Life Insurance payout means they don't have demand cash just yet. Just wait for the Lifetime t.v. movie deals to roll in.

[panzwami 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050821/ap_on_re_us/peace_mom_8

Possibly the same core article, but much longer and with more info.

It seems the father in question is upset in large part because Cindy and Co. have used his dead Marine son's name on one of the crosses in their display. After the father took down the cross with his son's name on it and told them not to use his name anymore, they replaced it multiple times.

I also love how the Sheehan protestors will openly condemn the President to anyone who will listen, but will not debate with family members who support the President because "We don't want to debate with people who don't understand our point of view."

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

[Pendejo 0]

I think they are both idiots for using, or allowing someone else to use the memeriories of their sons like that.....

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

[rehmwa 2]

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I think they are both idiots for using, or allowing someone else to use the memeriories of their sons like that.....

Nicely said.

Billvon - "Making hay" is a term for more than just making money. Since I consider I'm as consistent as I can be concerning both parents (see above - although I wouldn't say idiots as much as I just don't like grandstanding), you just want to find something else to argue about.

tso'd - where did your comment come from? Just because they have free speech doesn't mean it still isn't whining or grandstanding. Bad speech is just as protected against good speech - and both are free - and should be.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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It seems the father in question is upset in large part because Cindy and Co. have used his dead Marine son's name on one of the crosses in their display. After the father took down the cross with his son's name on it and told them not to use his name anymore, they replaced it multiple times.

This changes it a bit in my mind, but I still suspect the father might have had legal or other means to respond rather than hosting an 'event'. But "Cindy and Co" certainly didn't respect that parent and his kid and that speaks more to what C&C are about, not this dad.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jlmiracle 7]

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>They can get over it on there own as a deeply personal thing rather than make hay with it.

Have you heard that either is making money on their protests?

I thought the the guy had a problem with those "others" putting a cross out for his son at their protest that HE does not support. I would be pissed off too if some people who don't know me, or my family decided to USE me or them for THEIR causes and beliefs.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[pajarito 0]

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I thought the the guy had a problem with those "others" putting a cross out for his son at their protest that HE does not support. I would be pissed off too if some people who don't know me, or my family decided to USE me or them for THEIR causes and beliefs.

Absolutely. I would be very ticked off. They can use crosses of whatever all day long but don't put my son or daughter's name on it for your political gain. That was out-of-line on their part. Then again (before you start Bill), it was also out-of-line for that dumbass to run over the crosses with his truck. Those spineless, jellyfish, worm, stink-hippie, squatters are allowed to protest and express themselves in this country (to a degree).

[kelpdiver 2]

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Absolutely. I would be very ticked off. They can use crosses of whatever all day long but don't put my son or daughter's name on it for your political gain. That was out-of-line on their part.

It would bother me greatly, but it's still well within their right to do so. How ridiculous would it be to demand that war protesters listing the fallen ask each soldier's family for a blessing to do so?

[pajarito 0]

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It would bother me greatly, but it's still well within their right to do so. How ridiculous would it be to demand that war protesters listing the fallen ask each soldier's family for a blessing to do so?

Why would listing names be necessary at all? Their point can be made quite well without displaying personal information.

[panzwami 0]

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It would bother me greatly, but it's still well within their right to do so. How ridiculous would it be to demand that war protesters listing the fallen ask each soldier's family for a blessing to do so?

I don't know if they have a *right* to use a soldier's name without permission from his family. I believe they should have gotten an OK from the family of each of the soldiers whose names they wanted to use, and should take down a name if requested by the family to do so. I believe the father was well within his rights to take down his son's name and demand it not be used.

That said, I think driving one's truck over another's lawful protest, no matter how much one disagrees with that particular protest, is a bad move.

[rehmwa 2]

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It would bother me greatly, but it's still well within their right to do so. How ridiculous would it be to demand that war protesters listing the fallen ask each soldier's family for a blessing to do so?

"rights" - that doesn't seem to be the issue, it's more sensitivity and courtesy. Having a right could be the ability to do something (while still considering the impact of your actions on others) without government restricting that act.

Lately, "rights" has become a rallying ground for people to be assholes to others just because they think they have message they want to blare out. Or rights has been used by one group in deliberate attempt to restrict someone else's 'rights'. It can become nuts sometimes.

Our rights are good things, it's the lack of responsibility and courtesy in exercising those rights that has degraded so much. It's not our system that has issues, it's a pretty good system. It's the self centered abuse of that system that will take us down.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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Why would listing names be necessary at all? Their point can be made quite well without displaying personal information.

Get real. Would the Vietnam Memorial be as powerful if the names were replaced with the numbers 1 to 58,000? It's one thing to say that 2000 people died. It's quite another to read their names. Or to see a familiar one.

War protestors are trying to stop fighting. You'll have a hard time convincing them that the feelings of those already dead outweight the lives that might be lost in the future. So they exercise one of the most vital of American freedoms.

The proper response is the one we're seeing in Crawford - a counter demonstration.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Our rights are good things, it's the lack of responsibility and courtesy in exercising those rights that has degraded so much. It's not our system that has issues, it's a pretty good system. It's the self centered abuse of that system that will take us down.

Nope, it's the attempt to take away those rights, and the fools who are willing to accommodate the government in doing so, that will take us down.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Our rights are good things, it's the lack of responsibility and courtesy in exercising those rights that has degraded so much. It's not our system that has issues, it's a pretty good system. It's the self centered abuse of that system that will take us down.

Nope, it's the attempt to take away those rights, and the fools who are willing to accommodate the government in doing so, that will take us down.

I have to agree with Rehm because people in this country abuse these "rights" and don't so much as look as them as rights but as entitlements. Common courtesy has gone out the door in this country.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Everon 0]

I have to agree with kelp on this one. The patriot act is a classic example - a lot of people don't realize how our rights as citizens are being abused. This certainly isn't good for our society. Benjamin Franklin: That they can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve niether liberty nor safety.

[rehmwa 2]

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Our rights are good things, it's the lack of responsibility and courtesy in exercising those rights that has degraded so much. It's not our system that has issues, it's a pretty good system. It's the self centered abuse of that system that will take us down.

Nope, it's the attempt to take away those rights, and the fools who are willing to accommodate the government in doing so, that will take us down.

chicken vs egg comment - I'm not happy with the left trying to restrict my rights by being big brother in every aspect of how I live my life, I'm not happy with the right doing it either when they think people are overdoing it to the extent of infringing on the rights of others. Both are enabling the spiral - not just your narrow and partisan view of what you think is going on.

But Judy said it better than I did about responsibility in using our rights and courtesy. But if anything can be treated like an entitlement, it should be our rights - not the crap that people think they should get freebies because of rights, but the real rights the country is based on.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

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Have you heard that either is making money on their protests?

Rush Limbaugh is saying that Sheehan is making $25,000 per day in donations. Crawford Peace House

Other's are using her for their own enrichment:

Other groups that share Sheehan's view are promoting her cause. Some are seeking donations on their Web sites based on her protest. Source

[pajarito 0]

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Get real. Would the Vietnam Memorial be as powerful if the names were replaced with the numbers 1 to 58,000? It's one thing to say that 2000 people died. It's quite another to read their names. Or to see a familiar one.

War protestors are trying to stop fighting. You'll have a hard time convincing them that the feelings of those already dead outweight the lives that might be lost in the future. So they exercise one of the most vital of American freedoms.

The proper response is the one we're seeing in Crawford - a counter demonstration.

Well, maybe they had a right to do it. I don’t know. However, I dare say that the Vietnam Memorial is sanctioned by the majority whereas Sheehan’s left-wing fringe movement is not. That father was well within his rights to remove his son’s name from their makeshift memorial. I would have done exactly the same.