Gravitymaster 0 #26 July 20, 2005 You mean we could claim we were "duped"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #27 July 20, 2005 Yeah, that should work. But some rich guy is paying for my 300 jumps though, right? Because hell if I work to make my own money so I can skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #28 July 20, 2005 it's not so much that we were duped. it's more like we don't like to take responsibility for, well, anything and blaming george bush will work most of the time right? i mean, he's the ship's captain and all. if that doesn't work, we'll say that we didn't understand how a butterfly ballot works. "Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #29 July 20, 2005 of course!! rich people will pay. that was established early on in the thread. seriously, there's no way i'm payin' for my own stuff!"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,462 #30 July 20, 2005 >Just don't impose your sense of fainess on me. I won't, since I don't run a DZ. Feel free to not jump at DZ's that offer special rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,462 #31 July 20, 2005 >If you pre-committed to 1500 jump tickets, you would get a better rate too. Just don't try to impose your numberist philosophy on me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 July 20, 2005 Quote>Just don't impose your sense of fainess on me. I won't, since I don't run a DZ. Feel free to not jump at DZ's that offer special rates. But, but..without rich guys like me subsudizing less fortunate jumpers, how will the DZ survive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #33 July 20, 2005 hell you are talking about jumping in the U.K. right know. Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #34 July 20, 2005 Quote ok g-man...here's what we'll do. we'll tell our dz owners that we promise to make 1500 jumps over the course of a season and when we only make 300, we'll blame the weather and george bush. that'll work, right? Don't leave out the war in Iraq or activist judges either, it's their fault too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #35 July 20, 2005 QuoteBecause a 4 way team with video is making 1500 jumps per year. If you pre-committed to 1500 jump tickets, you would get a better rate too. Also, guaranteed 5 more slots on the airplane all day can be the difference between the load flying (minimum requirement) or sitting on the ground or at least turning without shutdown all day. 1 person - not so much. 5 people not together, not so much. So if it's a business decision by the DZ great. If it's blatant redistribution because of a misplaced sense of fairness? Well, if it causes my ticket price to not be competitive with other DZs then I don't jump there. If it doesn't affect me other than that - It's not my business other than I think the DZ owner is establishing a very bad standard. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 July 20, 2005 QuoteThat's what happens at a lot of DZ's. Local people/teams who can't afford jumping/tunnel time often get significantly better deals than the 'rich' jumpers. Unfair? I don't think so. Sure, and I bet the DZ owners are forthcoming to ALL their customers about this practice since it's so fair? If they have poorer jumpers, they would be better off offering them jobs packing or cleaning up for jump credit, rather than freebies and discounts. Then everybody wins. Edit: I guess to jump in california I need my USPA membership, reserve card, logbook, and my last 5 tax returns ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,462 #37 July 20, 2005 >Sure, and I bet the DZ owners are forthcoming to ALL their >customers about this practice since it's so fair? No, they're not, because people will bitch. People bitch any time they feel someone else is getting a deal they're not. >If they have poorer jumpers, they would be better off offering them > jobs packing or cleaning up for jump credit, rather than freebies and > discounts. Then everybody wins. That happens as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #38 July 20, 2005 Continuing in the tongue-in-cheek spirit of this thread... What about those poor free-flyers who always have to sit in the back of the plane? I thought Rosa Parks settled this issue once and for all back in the 1960's. It's discrimination to make a certain category of people sit in the back of the bus! What freeflyer will dare to be the skydiving version of Rosa Parks, and demand seating up front in the exit lineup? Stand up for yourself! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #39 July 20, 2005 ...Not only THAT!~~ Turbines Have Ruined Aviation!! We must get rid of turbines. They are ruining aviation. We need to go back to big round engines. Anybody can start a turbine, you just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is more difficult to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. On some planes, the pilots are not even allowed to do it. Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a small lady-like poot and start whining louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho fart or two, more clicks, a lot of smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a guy thing. When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking on a ceiling fan: Useful, but hardly exciting. Turbines don't break often enough, leading to aircrew boredom,complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow at any minute. This helps concentrate the mind. Turbines don't have enough control levers to keep a pilot's attention.There's nothing to fiddle with during the flight. Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman lanterns. Round engines smell like God intended flying machines to smell. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 July 20, 2005 QuoteContinuing in the tongue-in-cheek spirit of this thread... What about those poor free-flyers who always have to sit in the back of the plane? I thought Rosa Parks settled this issue once and for all back in the 1960's. It's discrimination to make a certain category of people sit in the back of the bus! What freeflyer will dare to be the skydiving version of Rosa Parks, and demand seating up front in the exit lineup? Stand up for yourself! You know, John, you're right. We may have to take drastic measures. I want all freeflyers given coupons for half-price jump tickets, free coaching, new gear etc. It's the least we can do to make up for the past injustices. I don't think it would hurt to buy them all new jumpsuits either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #41 July 20, 2005 Hold up there lets not go to far!!!!!!!! If you keep that up you and I might have to get out near the end of the jump run with a crappy spot. Freeflyers are just pyhsicaly able to get back from long spots better than "us", I think it's something in their genes( or is that jeans). Lets not encourage them to think of themselves as "equals" it just opens the door to all kinds of problems. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaconStrip 0 #42 July 21, 2005 If I quit my job, how cheap should my jumps be? I would hope they would be free because I have no way to pay for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #43 July 21, 2005 Man, I could quit too! That means I don't have to work, and I can still skydive. It's a win-win situation! Now, where's the guy who pulls in 250k/yr to pay for my skydiving. He owes me.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #44 July 21, 2005 Yes - freeflyers have it bad. I have friends who are into CRW and they won't let me join in. I say: if a freeflyer can dock on an RW formation in freefall they should be allowed to dock on a canopy formation in freefall. Not allowing it is blatant discrimination! It's sickening. Now that the FAI rules don't require docks to be held for 3 seconds, there's simply no excuse anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #45 July 21, 2005 I have become a Democrat. I want to quit my job, but not sacrafice my jumps per year. I know it wil be hard, but my DZO likes the idea. So he is gonna charge anyone with a job 6 dollars more per ticket. For every 4 tickest he sells I will get a jump ticket....Now it will be set up like welfare and I can't use it for packing or food (Unless I do it really sneaky like). But I think its fair that all you rich people with jobs pay for my jumps...BTW if I get a second rig I get even more tickets...Cool huh? Get to work, I need to make 500 jumps this year."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #46 July 21, 2005 Quote>Sure, and I bet the DZ owners are forthcoming to ALL their >customers about this practice since it's so fair? No, they're not, because people will bitch. People bitch any time they feel someone else is getting a deal they're not. let me rephrase that. "No, they're not, because people will bith whenever they feel they are being treated unfairly" It's sneaky. But what do you expect from big business types sitting in Bush's back pockets? I better start carrying my 1040s into restaurants too. I want to make sure that they charge me a "fair" price for my Big Mac (less than Bill Gates, but more than some unemployed person). (A business owner can do whatever they want with their business, but customers can do what they want when they find out they are being exploited, too.) oh, and customers bitch about anything, so you can't win. Best to be honest, at least you'll be respected for it. So, how about a list of DZs that practice this 'recreational redistribution of wealth'? Not team discounts (some are poor, some are not, so that doesn't count), or employee discounts, or anything easy to tie to keeping the plane running, just discounts for people with low incomes. I bet that list will generate a great influx of poor jumpers to those DZs - looking for their entitlement. How long does that DZ stay in operation or keep that benefit? Edit: I'd love to see the business that actually pro-rates jump ticket prices to income. I bet they go under immediately. Does any DZO want to put his business on the line with that policy? Who has the balls to put his politics into his business this way? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #47 July 21, 2005 QuoteContinuing in the tongue-in-cheek spirit of this thread... What about those poor free-flyers who always have to sit in the back of the plane? I thought Rosa Parks settled this issue once and for all back in the 1960's. It's discrimination to make a certain category of people sit in the back of the bus! What freeflyer will dare to be the skydiving version of Rosa Parks, and demand seating up front in the exit lineup? Stand up for yourself! Hi John. Come to the UK as freeflyers generally get out first! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #48 July 21, 2005 QuoteCome to the UK as freeflyers generally get out first! Thankfully not at any of the DZ's I've been to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 July 21, 2005 QuoteCome to the UK as freeflyers generally get out first! DANGEROUS So then, one of four things: 1 - The winds are slow up top and fast down below - always 2 - The laws of physics are different in the UK than the rest of the planet 3 - There are only freeflyers and no other disciplines in the UK 4 - Some real ignorance in how the mechanics of freefall drift needs to be corrected. Fast fallers first is dangerous as a 'general' rule. It only makes sense under unusual wind conditions. Go to Omniskore.com or Kallend's website and there's good software explaining why. The Omniskore simulation is graphical (based on Kallend's modelling). it's not rocket science, it's mainly just bookkeeping, so anyone can 'get it'. Also, every freefall discipline has hot canopy pilots, so getting the fast canopies out first is not a default argument for freeflyers. Don't even go there. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #50 July 21, 2005 QuoteCome to the UK as freeflyers generally get out first! I demand reparations for belly-flyers in the UK! They must be compensated for this blatent discrimination! Style jumpers deserve subsidized jump prices too. There aren't many of them remaining any more, and we must preserve social diversity in skydiving! Save the Style jumpers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
