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Salsa_John

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It would be interesting to compare the principle teachings of Jesus & Muhammad.
[e.g. Muhammad killed, advocated killing, and came about as a warrior; Jesus came from lowly beginnings, lived sinless and only advocated peace.) I’m talking about the principals of the religions, not what people have done with them (right or wrong).
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Jesus came in peace?

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"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51)



Fact is almost ALL religions teach violence. In todays world only the nutbags seem to actually do it...(Some say that only the nutbags back then did it as well).
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".
-----HOW MANY HAVE DONE THIS (not that it is right)? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY MUSLIM TERRORISTS?
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You are looking with a lot of bias


How many people in Muslim countries have been killed or there lives seriously effected by the actions of the UK and the USA?

You don’t see any one attacking the Vatican now do you?
They also didn’t bomb a church but the most significant symbol of American business the stock exchange.

Then ask how many British and Americans have been killed by the actions of terrorist?

I think you will find we have killed a lot more of the Muslims world then they have killed of the western world.



My reply was to the mention of Christians in particular killing abortionists. This is trying to point to Christians being as bad as Muslims as far as killing people. The handful of times (even though it is still too many) this has happened is a flyspeck in the you know what compared to the deaths inflicted in the name of Islam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

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The handful of times (even though it is still too many) this has happened is a flyspeck in the you know what compared to the deaths inflicted in the name of Islam.


__________________________________________________
All three of the majr western religions, Islam, Judeism,and Christianity have a common patriarch.

His name is Abraham / Ibrahm.

He is famous because he was willing to kill his only (innocent)son to please his God.

Try that today and tell me where it gets ya!

Blues,
Cliff

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Jesus came in peace?

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)



He did in fact come in peace and lived a life based on that but the truth of his “message” brought opposition, division, and persecution. It was predicted by him. Context is everything Ron.

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"I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51)



This second quote is a rehash of the first. Same meaning.

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Fact is almost ALL religions teach violence. In todays world only the nutbags seem to actually do it...(Some say that only the nutbags back then did it as well).



Jesus never taught violence. Your quotes are misinterpreted.

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For what this is worth... In Saudi Arabia:

1) During prayer time, if you are caught walking the street you go to jail.
2) If a non-Muslim goes to a "chop-chop" square (where they do beheadings), the crowd will force you right up to the executioner so that you get blood on you.

Pretty extreme stuff, and they're trying to export this religion. I still don't understand why we aren't going after the money instead of the small guys with guns in their hands.



Because the guys with the $$ also have our oil buried in their desert.
illegible usually

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The Catholic Church had its Crusades. The Muslims are in the midst of their Crusades right now.

In another few years/decades they'll stop it, too.



The catholic church had a little thing called the Spanish Inquisition (actually, it was world wide but the Spaniard's had a certain flair for it that made them memorable) that ran from 1478-1834. It was the church's official policy to torture people until they swore to accept the holy church and murder those that would not.

While three and a half centuries could be termed a "few decades" it seems a bit of a stretch.

jen

The Crusades lasted for over 100 years but look who cares. Here, read about the history of Jerusalem and realize to attack the Crusades as if they were the Evil group of history is absurd http://www.centuryone.com/hstjrslm.html.
If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

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Jesus never taught violence. Your quotes are misinterpreted.



How can you claim that when he says he didn't come in peace you claim I am wrong?

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"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)




anywhoo...Not that it really matters to me...

Most religions have violence in their "books". It was way of life.

Today only the nutters follow it.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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My reply was to the mention of Christians in particular killing abortionists. This is trying to point to Christians being as bad as Muslims as far as killing people. The handful of times (even though it is still too many) this has happened is a flyspeck in the you know what compared to the deaths inflicted in the name of Islam.
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Are you counting the innocent people we have killed by mistake? Or the people we killed as collateral damage?


Just because our armed forces or bombs don’t scream Jesus saves as they kill people doesn’t make it any less painful for the people who have lost loved ones because of our actions.

Unless you value American lives more then you do other lives then your not counting correctly? I value all life the same.

I’ll let someone else come up with the civilians we have killed just in Iraq.
If I say a number I am sure it will be challenged. So I will let someone else give you the number.

Maybe that will give an idea of who has killed more people.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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>Just because our armed forces or bombs don’t scream Jesus saves
> as they kill people doesn’t make it any less painful for the people
> who have lost loved ones because of our actions.

Well, most don't, anyway. (See pic)

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Jesus never taught violence. Your quotes are misinterpreted.



How can you claim that when he says he didn't come in peace you claim I am wrong?

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"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)



Context… Look at what you’re saying versus what you’re quoting. You’re saying “come in peace.” The Scripture says “come to send peace.” He’s talking about his message. Sword is in reference to “the truth”, “the word”, the “path to righteousness.” Like I said before, he was predicting that his message would bring about opposition, division, & persecution. What he correct? I think so.

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anywhoo...Not that it really matters to me...

Most religions have violence in their "books". It was way of life.

Today only the nutters follow it.



I agree. The Bible is also a history book full of violence. However, your quotes from the Old Testament are simply laws of the Nation of Israel and not necessarily God’s law. I agree that “only the nutters” would pick a verse out of the Old Testament containing a civil law of a particular nation, claim that it is God’s law, and use it to justify some violent action on their part.

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>Just because our armed forces or bombs don’t scream Jesus saves
> as they kill people doesn’t make it any less painful for the people
> who have lost loved ones because of our actions.

Well, most don't, anyway. (See pic)



I'll bet God didn't sanction that either, Bill. However, some will use that as an excuse to put down Christianity. They'll say, "See what people do in the name of religion?" Although, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what it's all about.

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>Just because our armed forces or bombs don’t scream Jesus saves
> as they kill people doesn’t make it any less painful for the people
> who have lost loved ones because of our actions.

Well, most don't, anyway. (See pic)




I wonder where these damn Muslims are coming up with this Holy war shit Bill :D
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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>Just because our armed forces or bombs don’t scream Jesus saves
> as they kill people doesn’t make it any less painful for the people
> who have lost loved ones because of our actions.

Well, most don't, anyway. (See pic)



I'll bet God didn't sanction that either, Bill. However, some will use that as an excuse to put down Christianity. They'll say, "See what people do in the name of religion?" Although, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what it's all about.




Why is it ok when people do that about Islam????
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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My understanding is only some of the "60-year-old" princes are funding this crap, not all of them. Now, they probably do look out for each other, but, there has to be some way to get the bad apples out.



Arent there between 3k-5k princes? It would be kindof hard to find who is supporting what organization. Also they could funnel money to 'charity' groups which are fronts for terrorist cells all in the name of helping out.

Here's something you might enjoy. It's the Blog of a man living in Riyahd. He stopped posting in April 2004, prob because they found out about him. Intresting insight into the life of a Saudi person.

http://muttawa.blogspot.com

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My understanding is only some of the "60-year-old" princes are funding this crap, not all of them. Now, they probably do look out for each other, but, there has to be some way to get the bad apples out.



I would certainly think so also.

We have backed ourselves over a barrel though and it will be tough to develop a solution that doesn't involve a lot of sacrifice of some sort.

Our current administration appears to have decided that we will sacrifice people (terrorists, Iraqis and US soldiers) instead of convenience, power and $$$.

Has less actual impact on the average voter that way.

I'm still pretty comfy in my office behind my keyboard. My neice in Afganistan is likely to be a bit less comfy though.
illegible usually

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>However, some will use that as an excuse to put down Christianity.

Of course. People are using the same sorts of things to put down Islam.

>They'll say, "See what people do in the name of religion?" Although,
>it has nothing whatsoever to do with what it's all about.

You really think that the people who wrote that on the tank were not thinking about religion?

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You really think that the people who wrote that on the tank were not thinking about religion?



I wasn't trying to establish their motive. I was just saying that some will use that as an excuse to not like Christians or Christianity.

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Why is it ok when people do that about Islam????



Maybe I should say I think a religion should be able to stand on its own merit and not what some people may do or have done with it which misrepresents it. The vile things that people may do in the name of religion may not have anything to do with the religion itself. That's why I thought it might be interesting to compare Christianity with Islam. What approach does each one take based on their founders. To better understand where each is really coming from.

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>If a Muslim country had successfully invaded the US, and was killing US citizens on a daily basis, not only would we be suicide bombing mosques, we'd be considering the people who did it heroes.

I Agree

If your in a fight, A fight you believe in, You fight with what you have
And if it came down to it, WE would be cutting off heads also.

g

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