Being pushed into experience...

[Ron 7]

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Hmmm so I should let them know about me having the clap?

No, don't be specific. There will always be one guy who will already have it, or not care. Instead mention your VD clinic trip did not go well, then walk away shaking your head and muttering under your breath words like "VD, Damn it, Dick will fall off". Let them wonder and worry.

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Or better yet, I can tell people that in the attempt to save me from unpure thoughts I was completley sewn shut when I turned 18? Hows that ?

Not good.

1. You really have to be good to pull that off. Maybe show up one day with a tin foil hat and complain, "The rays from the Sun's micro bursts make it hard to remember the words to "Blazing Saddles" and instead all I can think about is the theme song to the Jetsons......"his boy, Elroy....." then walk off.

2. If you find a hot young stud that you WANT to well.....ya know....ya know....sweaty, panting, moaning....Ya know......Go running with....No wait, I meant have sex with. It will be very hard to get them to admit to a date...Unless of course you show then you are NOT sewn up...and that kinda removes the need for a first date right?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Thank you, your post was very helpful. At this point although I like seeing videos and pics of free flyers, I love the feeling of belly to earth and I know that no matter what if I arch hard I am belly to earth. Its as simple as that. I just love being in the sky at this point and dont know if Ill ever get to a point to FF or CRW or even any major RW

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Ron has anyone told you that you may need to seek help with your mental status, ROFLMAO. Nope I couldnt be believable with anything you want me to say, Im more of a giggle shy type girl, SIGH

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Ron 7]

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Ron has anyone told you that you may need to seek help with your mental status

Why? Who has been talking about me behind my back? You are all just out to get me, I knew you were talking about me....The voices told me that you would not understand.

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Nope I couldnt be believable with anything you want me to say, Im more of a giggle shy type girl, SIGH

OK try this one.

Hot skystud: Hey, wanna make a jump with me?
Lisa: Well ok, but I am not very good, and don't wanna hurt your jump.

HSS: Thats ok Baby (Note, use of words like "baby", "darling", "my next conquest"...ect are all warnings). I'm just here to "help you" (as in have sex with you). Maybe after the jump we can get a few drinks and "Get to know" each other better.
Lisa: That would be great, Im gonna have to get a few things...A roll of quarters, some duct tape, vaseline and where can we find a midget circus on a Saturday thats not already booked?

Edit: If they KNOW where to find a midget circus on short notice.....Well that can be good or bad depending on what you like. Go with your gut feeling.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lisamariewillbe 1]

HOLY Salmon shit, who told you of my midget fetish???? Dammit man... GRRRR

Yes the other you , ratted you out. He sends messages via telepathy...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[MakeItHappen 15]

Even tho' this thread degenerated….

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As you all can see , I have 5 jumps, very unexperienced. Although Ive heard from four instructors that I am a natural and will do very well blah blah blah in this sport, I have recentley been having feelings of people giving me more credit then I deserve. I am still in AFF, yet I have several people that I meet at DZs already making plans for as soon as I get off Student status, ie, rodeos, pass kisses, RW and even a few who think I should get into free flying as soon as possible. I have no problem with the pass kiss and maybe two ways, for the other offers I always say "right now I am satisfied with the belly to earth and dont think my skills will be there with 10 jumps but thanks anyways" I always get the same reaction, ie "no your gonna want to do this or that or you need to pony up" Am I wrong in thinking that I am not going to be experienced enough for some of these actions? I still get nervous for my instructor having to be in the air with such a newbie. Any advice or opinions are appreciated.

This appears to be a typical gender-biased' let me help you' scenario.

Some tell-tale signs of gender bias, aka "I want in your pants." motivation:

- The other(s) say you stay where you are at break-off, we'll track away from you. I have seen this philosophy used on many, many women jumpers, but never with a male jumper. It happened 20-30 years ago and it still happens today. If a new jumper cannot be responsible for a turn and track, they have no business being on any type of recreational load.
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- Someone wants a kiss-pass at break-off and has a grip on you. The best way to extricate yourself from this is to rotate your arm down, turn and track. If need be, leverage separation by placing your feet upon their body and quickly straightening your legs. The on the ground follow up is to state in no uncertain terms, that break-off is a time for live saving measures of separating a safe distance from others. It is no time for a sexual advance. Most new jumpers do not realize that a 'kiss-pass' is something that is usually done after the regular dive is done, aka at break-off altitude.
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- Information is withheld from you. IOW, the other jumper(s) do not explain how to deal with this, that or the other thing. They will compensate and cheat you out of a learning experience. In a post dive they might say something like 'I didn't want to confuse you or overload you. or I know you cannot do front floater. or etc' I have only seen this used with new women jumpers, never men jumpers.
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- The dive is at a level targeted for someone with more experience or the dive has you 'stay in place - we will turn points around you' the entire time. Either way you get cheated. Ditto with the women only comment. Men won't engineer a dive where another new man 'stays put' and does nothing, but they frequently do it for new women jumpers. The targeted learning objective (TLO) in this case is to understand the social mechanisms at work.
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- The organizer(s) never ask you if you feel comfortable with the dive or ask what altitude you want to break-off at. They say 'Oh - you can handle it.' or they say that everyone else knows you only have x jumps and will keep that in mind.
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- The organizer(s) do not mention anything about gear checks, gear awareness during climbout, break off, tracking or canopy control. Someone that really wants to teach you at an early stage will realize that these things are just as important as how to do forward motion or recover from being low, etc.
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- You get a slot that is 'not required' for the dive to proceed. IOW, if you do not make it into your slot, they will key and proceed to the following points. This means that you may be low, or zooming around or whatever. In any case, you are not benefiting from the dive. This can also become a major safety hazard. There was a woman with about 20 jumps that was put out last on a 20-way. The organizers' thinking was that if she didn't make it in - no big deal. She collided with another jumper during the dive to the formation. She was knocked out and went in (BC days). The other jumper suffered a broken leg/pelvis and was out for a year or so.
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The big warning sign to see is that you are apparently attracting attention because you are a 'hot babe'. 'Hot-babe' only goes so far, then you need skydiving skill. My suggestion is to find the local skydivers that will not cut you any slack skill-wise, teach you and ensure that you learn. BTW, not all male jumpers fall into the 'I want in your pants' profile, but it may pay to read the Bonfire.

If you do not experience Newbie Blues, then you may have a gender bias problem.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[billvon 2,476]

>Am I wrong in thinking that I am not going to be experienced enough
>for some of these actions?

Everyone gets asked on things at some point that are over their head; part of being a wise skydiver is knowing when to say no. Good looking women get asked on such things a lot more than average, so it's a skill you have to develop early. One important part of this is finding a friend, or a group of friends, who have enough experience to know what you can and can't handle at your stage - at least until you have enough experience to judge for yourself.

OTOH it may present you with opportunities other jumpers don't have, which can be good. An old friend of mine started jumping in 1999, moved quickly to 4-ways, 8-ways and 20-ways, and was on the 300-way by the time she had 300 jumps. She has since medaled in 4-way at nationals a few times, and jumps with Deguello. And none of that was a gimme - she put the time in training and coaching, and she has an amazing amount of natural ability. But her looks did give her opportunities that other jumpers may not have gotten.

[julesshrew 0]

I'm not ready to jump with others yet but thats because Ive still got so much to learn since I qualified Im taking the opportunity to try as many different exits as possible and just concentrate on perfecting my own body position and see what I can do with the air around me without worrying about others in close proximity yet

Im not far off starting WARP but with a new and smaller canopy to play with (1 jump on it so far) opening high and getting the hang of the flare is priority for me at the moment. If asked again in a few jumps time I would probably jump with an instructor or atleast somone who I am confident could counteract or cope with anything that my inexperience could throw at them

[IanHarrop 37]

In this other thread you mention not accomplishing something but getting a pass anyway.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1657660#1657660

You are probably right to question if you are getting the right advice when you are being told you are a natural but are getting a pass even when you miss something.

Look at the comments from MakeItHappen - she's been around a long time (sorry Jan, but all of us are getting older!), been involved with this sport at a whole variety of levels and she's seen a lot. You might even want to check our her website for more good information.

http://makeithappen.com/

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I got a pass for the same reason many people who have not completed all manuvers have, I have heard of plenty of people not doing a full back flip but since the backflip is to make someone unstable and to see if they can regain stability they pass, I did a left turn but not a right... You have yet to see me jump and dont think it is right for you to doubt what instructors have told me. I have not mentioned that I feel instructors are giving me more then I deserve. And considering this is a modified level because of my videos and skill or lack there of, who is to say I didnt deserve the pass? I have an instructor with 5000 jumps who think I deserved to, . Sorry to be on the defensive but I wasnt asking to have my jumps that I have made critiqued by anyone, I went through that with my instructor. I was asking safety questions.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[darrenspooner 0]

My suspicion is that you're a babe and this has more to do with guys' lacivorous aspirations than their respect for your skydiving. No dis intended. I'm a guy and I know what its like out there. Its wierd here in the UK. You see instructors salivating over newbie chicks, and scowling and yelling at newbie guys. You tell me?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Im starting to feel insulted, what was a simple question has now turned into people assuming things about me. I am sorry I even posted this, and if it werent for some of the helpful advice I would delete everything I wrote. My looks are not my fault but my passion for this sport is real, my desire to be safe is real, my desire to learn is real. I however dont feel that it is fair for someone to assume that all I am is a good looking person whose only role on the DZ is to be drooled over...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[IanHarrop 37]

Sorry if you felt I was critizing your jumps, that was not my intent.

My intent was to support you in questioning everything.

Blue ones

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I do not question my jumping, nor the fact that I do have certain things going, ie I follow directions. Im actually very humble and have been embarrassed all day and now feel like a idiot because now all I am is a nevermind. Thank you all for the advice. I will take what I can use and go with it,

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[kelpdiver 2]

Don't take it personally, people are just giving you the worst case examples. That you're asking this question to start with means you're at least aware of it.

that said, sometimes newbies just get a little more leniency. Sometimes that's fine, sometimes it may not serve us best in the longer run. I've actually experienced some of the actions Jan feels are only applied to women.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

its hard to not take it personally, its hard enough that now all I am is a pretty skydiver but to imply my instructors wrongly passed me is out of line. That is not only their job but also their way of life. Ive had 4 instructors because my SD friends drag me to different DZs and have never doubted them and Im not only being defensive for myself but for them as well. I have had the best of the best teach me, I am proud of what they have helped me achieve and will not let anyone take that away...

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Ron 7]

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Even tho' this thread degenerated….

I'm not so sure it degenerated

It had good info, you added to it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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Im starting to feel insulted

Sorry if what I said bothered you.

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I am sorry I even posted this, and if it werent for some of the helpful advice I would delete everything I wrote.

don't be, it has good info and you need to understand that some folks WILL try to advance you in the hopes that they can date you. Normal.

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My looks are not my fault but my passion for this sport is real, my desire to be safe is real, my desire to learn is real.

Don't regret your looks. Just don't let yourself get over your head. Be aware that you could get into trouble.

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I however dont feel that it is fair for someone to assume that all I am is a good looking person whose only role on the DZ is to be drooled over...

No one wants you to feel that way. People don't assume it. However be aware that some WILL try to help with the sole reason being to get in good with you. Thats not saying anything bad about you....It says TONS bad about them. But it is something that happens.

My GF gets special attention from me. Thats normal.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Wasnt talking about your post Ron, youve been great, even if you are incouraging me to fake a VD

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[skyyhi 0]

Lisa, at my DZ (Elsinore), we have a 2-way skills camp. I started going there as soon as I had my A license. 25 jumps. I wasn't very good at first but I learned so much about flying with others. It was great experience. Tell people that you would love to fly with them as soon as you have your A license, but that you hope they will understand if you wait till you are comfortable.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Im starting to feel insulted, what was a simple question has now turned into people assuming things about me. I am sorry I even posted this, and if it werent for some of the helpful advice I would delete everything I wrote. My looks are not my fault but my passion for this sport is real, my desire to be safe is real, my desire to learn is real. I however dont feel that it is fair for someone to assume that all I am is a good looking person whose only role on the DZ is to be drooled over...

I completely agree with you, except for the part where you feel insulted.

Let me put it this way. You want to learn as much as possible on each and every jump, so do a lot of other jumpers.

Sometimes, there are 'different' motivations on the behalf of the 'teachers'.

You need to distinguish between the people that can and will help you, based on your ability versus the ones that only have a 'less than desirable goal' in mind.

It is never your 'fault' for being attractive or beautiful, but those that 'move in' because of that are the ones to be wary of. You asked about those folks in your original post.

Let's be clear here. No one is saying that you are manipulating the 'looks' angle. In fact quite the opposite is being said. People are telling you it's out there and to be cautious.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[tbrown 26]

Whoever you jump with and whatever you try to do, concentrate at first on simple awareness. If you're jumping with just one or two people, where are they ? Where are you in relation to them ? What's your altitude ? You can work on stuff like learning to fly over to them, dock, then be pushed away and chase them for another dock, but you need to develop the habit of checking your altimeter regularly as you do the other fun stuff.

You need to learn to track really well. A lot of experienced jumpers will be perfectly willing to stay put on breakoff and watch you track away and pull. They can tell you some helpful things about your track back on the ground, whether it's good and what you can do to make it better. Because when you jump with any size group of people, you need to know how to do a good hot track away from them at breakoff. And getting back to awareness, how to look around while you track and see whether anybody's nearby, or above or below you. And that the ground below isn't getting too darn big on you. And how to take one good last look around and give a strong wave off that people can see before you throw your pilot chute.

Relax, have fun, keep it simple. Don't try too many new things on the same jump, one or two at most will do. And they all come back to simple awareness of where you are, where they are, and where the ground is. Have fun kid !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Monkeyb 0]

Yea, getting invited to jump when you have a low jump number is the shit!!! It makes you feel like you're a part of the crew, and your jump is so freakin exciting and fun. My friend and I have been doing 2-ways together for the last 50 jumps and whenever someone asks to jump with us, or invites us along, it makes our day :)

[mfnren 0]

Don't underestimate yourself .And you'll be able to pick out the people you want to jump with.

[darrenspooner 0]

I'm guessing the things I said have pushed the buttons for you. Look, I do not mean to cause you any offence. I don't know you, I have no idea what you look like or what your skydiving ability is. So this isn't in any way a personal reflection on you. But I just seen the look on some of those instructors' faces when a chick turns up for training or tandem. The advice you got on here seems good - go with the ones that want to help you improve, not the ones with another agenda.