Skydiver sues over body breakage

[jakee 1,257]

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Jumping in 20 to 25 mph winds is common and I do not see why winds had anything to do with it.

Into a stadium in the middle of a city?

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As this was a military related jump would he had had the choice to not jump? Was this an order to jump?

I can't say anything about this accident but I have been at a few events where military teams have been scheduled to jump but have called it off because of winds or cloud, even when the jump plane was already overhead and with much more open landing zones.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freethefly 6]

I did a demo last 4th of july at a large airshow. Winds 15 to 20. No problem as we followed our jump plan and set up and landed according to plan. It only seems to me that his mistake was setting up for landing, given limited information. As I understand he landed in the spectator seats then fell to the ground. Things happen, hell, I hit 2 RV's at Quincy in 1998. I know someone out there reading this is and saying "I saw that". Yup, that was I and I am lucky, very lucky to have only knocked out a tooth. So, I am not saying that he is not a capable skydiver only that his one decision on where to set up for landing may have been the deciding factor in this. Not the wind. Non the less he should be compensated.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mr2mk1g 10]

Possibly... but at 6000 jumps and holding the British equivalent of the US PRO rating it would be open to the court to conclude that he was adequately qualified irrespective of any training given to him by his employers. Remember, this jumper was also the chief instructor of the RAF Hawks... if someone needed training it would be his duty to provide it.

Think of it as taking on a skilled craftsman who has had years of experience in the use of [insert power tool here]. Once that skill is demonstrated to the employer it may not be necessary for the employer to undertake any further training.

But as I said – each case will turn on its own merits.

[ltdiver 3]

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It’s also heavily reliant on the fact that this jumper was not himself the Demo Leader.

I believe he was.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

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Non the less he should be compensated.

He already is. He's asking for more.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[headoverheels 291]

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It’s also heavily reliant on the fact that this jumper was not himself the Demo Leader.

I believe he was.

ltdiver

Yep. I'd say he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Yep. I'd say he doesn't have a leg to stand on. "

Oh...bad taste sir.....

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Erroll 49]

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It’s also heavily reliant on the fact that this jumper was not himself the Demo Leader.

I believe he was.

ltdiver

Indeed. From the article:- Mr Rogoff, a veteran of nearly 6,000 jumps, was leading the RAF Hawks Display Team on the jump into the Aston Villa ground when a gust of wind seemed to push him on to the stand.

[SkyDekker 1,138]

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Possibly... but at 6000 jumps and holding the British equivalent of the US PRO rating it would be open to the court to conclude that he was adequately qualified irrespective of any training given to him by his employers. Remember, this jumper was also the chief instructor of the RAF Hawks... if someone needed training it would be his duty to provide it.

Think of it as taking on a skilled craftsman who has had years of experience in the use of [insert power tool here]. Once that skill is demonstrated to the employer it may not be necessary for the employer to undertake any further training.

But as I said – each case will turn on its own merits.

Obviously I don't know what teh law states in the UK. However, here in Canada, if the training hasn't been documented it is regarded as not having taken place.

For example. Some of my staff have been lifting heavy items correctly for close to 18 years. This past summer one strained his back and claimed it came from lifting heavy items. This was the first such incident. We got fined by the Health & Safety authorities since we could not produce a piece of paper, signed by the employee, that he had been trained in proper lifting techniques. Eventhough the employee admitted that he had been trained, since it wasn't documented and signed by employee it was considered as never to have taken place.

Hence, at least here, the argument of him being experienced would not hold any water.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Ah yes, that's true here too. As a general rule no documentation = no training.

I think that this situation may well be more akin to his being an expert in his field though. But as before, it really is impossible to make any more accurate considerations on the facts we have here.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

When this incident ocurred, the 'training' required would have been a D license, and the display team leader's 'approval' that the jump was within the skill set of the demo jumper.

So 'training' would have been well recorded.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[skreamer 1]

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I did a demo last 4th of july at a large airshow. Winds 15 to 20. No problem as we followed our jump plan and set up and landed according to plan.

Did you choose to jump a Stiletto '120 for that demo?

BPA membership is now over £100 ($190US) annually almost entirely because of the insurance premium going up. Why do you think the insurance premium went up so drastically (over 50%)? Greedy people trying to get rich quick as promised by ambulance chasing legal scumbags. IMHO the UK is now every bit as litigious as the US.

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Non the less he should be compensated.

He already has been, and if his lawsuit is successful who do you think will be paying in the long run? British dropzones, British skydivers.

I don't care who he is suing or who will have to pay out. Fact is if he wins then insurance companies will take note and adjust future policies accordingly - all British skydivers will lose.

He did a demo into a stadium in questionable conditions using a Stiletto '120 setting up for a swoop whilst wearing a Santa Claus outfit. Thank goodness he didn't land on any spectators because I believe they would have the right to sue him.

Anybody who believes he has the right to sue please let me know before I offer you a ride in my car or make a skydive with you.

Will

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Did you choose to jump a Stiletto '120 for that demo? "

Into an enclosed stadium, difficult at the best of times......the wind tends to blow in circles in there.

Be fair though Skreamer, most of the peeps discussing this are probably unaware of Nigel's canopy choice that day, it certainly isn't evident from the article, it was however the subject of much discussion at the time.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Anybody who believes he has the right to sue please let me know before I offer you a ride in my car or make a skydive with you.

Him having the right and him being [I]right[/I] to exercise that [I]right are two very different questons.

I'll happily give input as to whether or not a right exists (in this case I'm non-comittal)... however I try to stay out of the debate on whether suing is the "right" thing to do.

[skreamer 1]

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Be fair though Skreamer, most of the peeps discussing this are probably unaware of Nigel's canopy choice that day, it certainly isn't evident from the article, it was however the subject of much discussion at the time.

They might not have known Nac, but it is relevant. He chose to jump that canopy. I don't know whether or not he was setting up for a toggle hook to impress all the thousands of whuffos watching but I do know he chose to jump a Stiletto '120 for that demo.

[freethefly 6]

Jumped my sabre150.

If the law is written to allow litigation then the action should be allowed to run it's course. Not being British I am not fully aware of the laws pertaining to litigation as I am to laws in the US as I have been sued several times. But none the less, no matter how I felt it is law and I paid.
If this guy wins, well, good for him and if you don't like it start a movement to end all litigation. In short, change the law.
Personal note; I do not believe that I, myself, would sue as no one ever forced me out of a plane (but then no one has ever went to altitude with me after eating 12 bean soup )

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[skreamer 1]

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however I try to stay out of the debate on whether suing is the "right" thing to do.

Fancy a future in politics then?

You are right though about him having the right to exercize his right, I was wrong about that. OK, I believe he is wrong to exercize his right to sue in this instance.

Phew, life was easier when I was exercizing my right to insult fat green Canadians in the fluff forum.

[jakee 1,257]

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You are right though about him having the right to exercize his right

Just remember, three rights make a wrong, or is it two wrongs being a left? No wait, I've got it, a right and a left mean you're going straight ahead, but slightly off to one side.

Whew, who would have thought law could be so confusing?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[dorbie 0]

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Non the less he should be compensated.

He already is. He's asking for more.

ltdiver

He probably is, but what's he really asking for & why? For all you know he's suing to help pay for better prosthetics that he can't get on the NHS, for an injury sustained in Her Majesty's Service.

The courts will decide on the merits.

[ltdiver 3]

Update to this story.

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=15136601&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=villa-skydive-victim-fights-courts-alone-name_page.html

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Villa skydive victim fights courts alone

Jan 31 2005

By Guy Newey, Evening Mail

An RAF skydiver who cheated death in a Villa Park plunge has run out of money in his battle to win compensation over his horror fall.


Former Flight Sergeant Nigel Rogoff will have to represent himself in a High Court battle in London after a five-year fight.


The 45-year-old had his left leg amputated above the knee after crashing into the Trinity Road stand in front of 40,000 horrified fans in 1998.


Tomorrow, Mr Rogoff will face top government barristers, staking a personal injury claim of £50,000.


"The whole process has bankrupted me, I have used all my financial resources," said the father-of-two, who lives in London.


"I have had to sell my house because of the way the whole process has dragged on, but I will have my day in court."


Mr Rogoff was part of an RAF display team dressed as Santa who jumped over Villa Park during the Boxing Day 1998 fixture against Arsenal.


He was in court last Friday for legal arguments, but it was the last time that his insurance company would foot the bill.


Now he faces a four-day case, where he will call former comrades as witnesses, some of whom are still serving in the forces.


"I am obviously asking these guys to make a case against their employers, which is a hell of a thing to do," added the father of twins.


Mr Rogoff was given more than 170 pints of blood following his fall, and suffered a fractured pelvis, fractures to both legs and a fractured right arm.


He is claiming is that the jump should never have taken place because winds at the stadium were gusting at up to 35 mph, well above the safety limit.


The MoD investigated, and denied the claim.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon