12,000 more troops

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20041201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_military

And this comes long after the Commander in Chief declared the end of major combat operations. Does anyone else see this as a sign for the shortsighted planning of our President and his war council? We are seeing the same thing in Afghan as we are mounting an offensive against a growing Taliban insurgency in that country (more troops have been requested as well for that conflict). These seems like a pattern to me.

I wonder how many of these kids will never come back home?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[quade 3]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/19/campaign.draft.ap/

Quote

The University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election survey found that half of young people believe Bush wants to reinstate the military draft. Only 8 percent said Kerry wants it.

The day the poll was released, Bush said in his second debate with Kerry, "We're not going to have a draft, period."

I just don't see how it's possible to continue doing what we've been doing without eventually reinstating the draft.

I wonder if "We're not going to have a draft, period." is going to be 43's "Read my lips: no new taxes."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,475]

Wow. 150,000 troops. US troop levels in Vietnam didn't hit that until the war had been going on for six years.

[markd_nscr986 0]

*** Does anyone else see this as a sign for the shortsighted planning of our President and his war council?


Not particularly.............and hindsight always is 20/20 .It would be extremely poor planning NOT to have extra troops for the elections.And in spite of what Michael Moore says,99.9% of these "kids" are proud to serve their country and believe that they should be Iraq.But don't take my word for it,write to this "kid" if you want.....HM1 Dickson,serving with the 1/23 USMC........pm me for his address over there,if you like

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[Zenister 0]

Quote

And this comes long after the Commander in Chief declared the end of major combat operations.

and what was our death toll for Nov?? oh yea major combat operations are over and the mission is accomplished.. pfft. Bush should have to tell that to the graves of the friends i'll never see again... and apologize to the American public for such a stupid publicity stunt..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,475]

>And in spite of what Michael Moore says,99.9% of these "kids" are
>proud to serve their country and believe that they should be Iraq.

I highly recommend the book "Purple Hearts - Back from Iraq." It allows two pages for each wounded soldier; one for their picture and one for their own words. (In a few cases, where they can no longer speak, words from their families.) While almost all were proud to serve their country, a suprising number don't know what we're doing in Iraq.

[Zenister 0]

i dont know a single soldier, marine or airman who isnt proud of their service or the professionalism with which they server... i know alot of them, many career military, who are wondering why exactly they are being called apon to do so in the time, place, manner they are in Iraq...

it isnt their service they question, it is the "leadership" and the reasoning and motivation for invading in the first place...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[airdvr 200]

[reply a suprising number don't know what we're doing in Iraq.

[freethefly 6]

If Bush's own daughters were to be drafted, I am sure that this conflict would come to a grinding halt. As long as it is someone elses childern dying it is all good. Call them patriots, he says. We should all be proud that they died protecting no one other than the presidents ill concieved notion that he just saved the world. After all he is a "war time president". War time presidents have to do the tough job and send someones kids to a shithole country to die for zilch. As long as his own family does not have to step in harms way George will continue to send Americans into an unwinable war.
Why continue in a region after so many failures. The Mideast ideaolgy is based on a religion that is seldom understood by the west. You cannot shove a governmental ideology down the throat of deeply religous peolple and expect them to take it hook, line and sinker. It does not work here, it will not work there.
12,000 more troops. Screw that. Let's just send two more. Let's send Jenna and Barb Bush. As soon as they return in body bags we can put this bullshit behind us.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,475]

>Cowpucky...you expect me to beleive they don't know.

It is what they have said. You can believe them or not. Personally I'll take the view of soldiers who have been there over you.

"I was thinking we were going in there for a reason and that that (WMD's) was one of them. Of course we have several reasons, but when you think we're searching for WMD's and we're not, that leads you to think, OK, if that's not the reason, what does that say about the other reasons we're there . . ."

-Spc. Corey McGee (paralyzed)

"The fact that we haven't found any weapons that's upsetting. So here my brother's gone over there in January, what's the mission? Being part of the US, what our main goal always seems to be going in and proving we're a superpower. Why are we trying to prove that?"

-Lt. Jordan Johnson (crushed leg)

"I mean like all the reasons we went to war, it just seems like they're not legit enough for people to lose their lives for and for me to lose my hand and use of my leg and for my buddies to lose their limbs. Like, I had a big conversation with my buddy the other day and we want to know. I feel we deserve to know."

-Spc. Robert Acosta (amputation, nerve damge)

[Gawain 0]

For those that choose not to read the article and don't want to listen to the shrill tone of "oh my God, more troops! It's the end of the world...etc." let me summarize the article:

The US is deploying 1,500 more troops from the 82nd Airborne Division and extending the tours of 10,400 troops that are already there.

Good God people. Read this stuff. Those 10,400 will go home and their replacements will already be set up.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

The numbers in Iraq will go from 138,000 to 150,000 (the largest force we have had there to date). That's more than just 1,500 troops from the 82nd.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jdhill 0]

Quote

That's more than just 1,500 troops from the 82nd.

The remainder are already in country, and are being extended.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[wmw999 2,175]

Quote

The remainder are already in country, and are being extended.

Yup. Of course, the difference probably ignores the troops that are going there, that were going there anyway, who were supposed to be replacing the troops who are being extended.

I guess that's one way to say it's not really growing. Damn -- how are those numbers getting bigger, then?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,475]

>Damn -- how are those numbers getting bigger, then?

Well, they've been there for almost two years, and the force in Iraq is something like 15% women. So what happens is a male soldier and a female soldier get together, and nine months later, a stork brings them a new baby!

I don't know why everyone's talking about a draft. The way I figure it, we can add 22,000 troops a year to Iraq just using available resources.

[downwardspiral 0]

Just curious how one comes to the conclusion that more troops is a bad thing when WE ALL know the situation is about to become more violent? Perhaps one would approve of leaving poor Private Johnny out there all alone ,with no backup, to stop the assaults against the election all by himself?

Regardless of the reason we went to Iraq, we are there. If the commanding generals say they need this so they can bring our people home sooner.....give it to them. I realize many people are upset about us being "in country" in the first place...but lets try not to presume we know how to resolve a hostile conflict better than our commanding generals while we sit in the comfort of our own homes reading a ridiculous thread on the internet.

**dawns flame retardent suit**

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Zenister 0]

your absolutely right.. we've broken the eggs now we have to make the omelet no matter what the original reasons..

it would however be nice if the civilian idiots in the administration would publicly admit that they were very wrong when they told the military commanders to " shut up and color" and that it would not take anywhere near as many troops as they stated it would.....

of course our current leadership cannot admit they EVER make/made any mistakes...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[downwardspiral 0]

Quote

of course our current leadership cannot admit they EVER make/made any mistakes...

Do me a favor since I'm too lazy..... find an administration that did admit a mistake. Also be fair about the mistake.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[downwardspiral 0]

Also what would their admission accomplish? Serious question.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[billvon 2,475]

>find an administration that did admit a mistake.

Clinton admitted to lying, and was crucified for it. Thus reinforcing the tendency for politicians to never admit to anything.

[kallend 1,679]

Quote

Also what would their admission accomplish? Serious question.

Well, an honorable Commander in Chief who admitted a serious mistake of this nature would follow it up by doing the honorable thing, which is to resign. Then we'd all be better off.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Also what would their admission accomplish? Serious question.

Well, an honorable Commander in Chief who admitted a serious mistake of this nature would follow it up by doing the honorable thing, which is to resign. Then we'd all be better off.

Too bad Clinton didn't, eh?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,679]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Also what would their admission accomplish? Serious question.

Well, an honorable Commander in Chief who admitted a serious mistake of this nature would follow it up by doing the honorable thing, which is to resign. Then we'd all be better off.

Too bad Clinton didn't, eh?

What has Clinton got to do with Bush's inability to admit error?

"Mission Accomplished" my ass!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,475]

>What has Clinton got to do with Bush's inability to admit error?

It is a standard right-wing debating tool to use the "but Clinton got a blowjob and lied about it!" when it seems someone might have a valid criticism of a republican policy. I've seen it twice this morning on threads that have nothing to do with Clinton.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Just curious how one comes to the conclusion that more troops is a bad thing when WE ALL know the situation is about to become more violent? Perhaps one would approve of leaving poor Private Johnny out there all alone ,with no backup, to stop the assaults against the election all by himself?

Well here is an idea - how about better planning? Bush turned down many different ideas on the amount of troops and plans needed to invade Iraq. He turned down plans from the experts!!! On top of that our troops went in without the right armor or camo's. Because Bush had to have his deadline for SH poor Private Johnny was left out there all alone already, and is most likely dead due to the mistakes made before the war ever started! Now Bush has to keep throwing bodies into that country after he basically declared victory. How many troops or civilians would still be alive if Bush had used the right amount of troops in March of 2003? He probably thought he could do things just like daddy and bomb Iraq from the air without very little loss of American lives.

He essentially made the same mistakes in Afghan. And now he is beating his war drum about Iran? We'd probably be better off never considering an attack against them with his track record.

If I was to make a golf analogy - he has a poor back stroke with no follow thru. He is running this country and the war just like he did with all of his companies. Right into the ground.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....