The UN...love it, leave it, or change it....

[PhillyKev 0]

Several people keep talking about how the UN is worthless, useless, and only exists to line the pockets of the diplomats who belong to it. I contend that the UN is a worthwhile organization and serves to promote peace throughout the world, but it's not perfect. Sure, it could use some overhauling of its policies and procedures, but to scrap it entirely puts the world in the position of having a bunch of competing alliances which could only lead to global conflict.

Here are some examles of what good the UN has done.

U. S. Department of State
95/08/11 Focus: UN Peacekeeping: Successes Span the Globe
Bureau of Public Affairs


Focus on the UN
UN Peacekeeping: Successes Span the Globe



UN peace operations are useful and cost-effective options for addressing
some conflicts and humanitarian crises, a lesson currently overshadowed
by the difficult challenges faced by UN peacekeeping operations in the
former Yugoslavia. The majority of the 35 peacekeeping operations
undertaken by the UN during the past 50 years have played a valuable
role in containing regional conflicts, promoting democracy, and
monitoring human rights. They have helped stem refugee flows and brought
stability to regions of strategic and economic importance to the U.S.
Recent peacekeeping successes include Mozambique, El Salvador, Cambodia,
and Namibia, all countries where the UN helped bring long, bloody
conflicts to an end and then assisted in the establishment of more
democratic and stable governments.

UN Operations in Mozambique (ONUMOZ)

ONUMOZ was established in December 1992 to assist in the implementation
of the peace agreement between the Government of Mozambique and the
opposition group RENAMO. Mozambique's post-independence civil war from
1976 to 1992 claimed an estimated 1 million lives, destroyed the
country's infrastructure and agricultural capacity, and forced millions
of refugees into neighboring countries. ONUMOZ monitored the cease-fire
and demobilization of troops and provided security for humanitarian
assistance. ONUMOZ's presence bolstered security and confidence as the
terms of the peace accords were implemented and democratic elections
held. National elections, held in October 1994, were declared free and
fair by the UN. Close to 90% of eligible voters turned out at the polls.
Both sides accepted the results of the vote.

ONUMOZ's mandate ended with the installation of the newly elected
national government in December 1994, and all UN forces were withdrawn
as of January 31, 1995. In Mozambique, the UN succeeded in demobilizing
bitter military foes, repatriating refugees, and creating a climate
within which democratic elections could be held. In so doing, it
contributed to greater stability throughout the southern African region,
setting an example for ongoing UN efforts to resolve Angola's long civil
war.

[Box]

ONUMOZ
Mandate: To ensure the implementation of the general peace agreement, to
monitor elections, and to provide humanitarian aid
Duration: December 1992 to January 31, 1995
Successes: Free and fair elections held October 1994; reintegration of 3
million internally displaced persons prior to the elections
Costs: Through November 15, 1994--about $106 million

[End box]


UN Observer Mission In El Salvador (ONUSAL)

ONUSAL was established by the UN Security Council in May 1991, and
launched two months later, to monitor the human rights agreement between
the Government of El Salvador and the Farabundo Marti National
Liberation Front (FMLN). An estimated 55,000 Salvadorans were killed in
El Salvador's civil war from 1979 to 1991. With the signing of the peace
accords that ended the war in January 1992, ONUSAL's mandate was
expanded to include monitoring the cease-fire, separating combatants,
observing the dismantling of the FMLN military structure, assisting with
the reintegration of the FMLN into civilian society, training the
National Civilian Police, and observing elections.

Though resistance to land reform and legal reform delayed the peace
process, ONUSAL ultimately played a key role in facilitating the
implementation of the peace accords. El Salvador has since made
substantial progress toward democratization and political stability.
ONUSAL completed its mission on April 30, 1995.

[Box]

ONUSAL
Mandate: To monitor all agreements between the Government of El Salvador
and the FMLN
Duration: July 1991 to April 30, 1995
Successes: Implementation of the peace accords; demobilization of the
military-controlled national policy
Costs: About $24 million

[End Box]


UN Transitional Authority In Cambodia (UNTAC)

In March 1992, UNTAC began working toward the establishment of democracy
in Cambodia in the aftermath of two decades of violent conflict and
chaos, including the extraordinarily brutal rule of the Khmer Rouge.
UNTAC's mandate included the demobilization of warring parties,
organization of free and fair elections, the maintenance of law and
order, the repatriation of Cambodian refugees, and the re-establishment
of essential infrastructure. The human rights component of UNTAC
developed and implemented an education program to promote respect for
and understanding of human rights. This effort was followed by the
establishment of a UN Human Rights Commission field office in Phnom Penh
that is working with the elected government to continue the promotion of
human rights.

UNTAC's mandate ended with the formation of the Royal Cambodian
Government based on the elections of May 1993, certified free and fair
by the UN. The formation of the elected government marked a successful
end to what was at the time the largest UN peacekeeping mission ever
undertaken.


[Box]

UNTAC
Mandate: To assist in establishing a democratic government
in Cambodia
Duration: March 1992 to May 1993
Successes: Implementation of a human rights education program; design
and implementation of an electoral system followed by the free and fair
election of the Royal Cambodian Government
Costs: About $1.6 billion

[End box]


UN Transition Assistance Group In Namibia (UNTAG)

The UN was centrally engaged in Namibia's transition from civil war and
domination by South Africa to peace and democracy. The UN Security
Council had drawn attention to the illegality of South Africa's 70-year
occupation of Namibia, and behind the scenes had long worked toward the
1989 cease-fire between the South West African People's Organization
(SWAPO), a Namibian nationalist movement, and South Africa. Once the
negotiations were complete, UNTAG monitored the cease-fire and the
withdrawal of South African forces and helped build the framework for
democratic elections.

A major challenge for UNTAG was increasing the confidence of the
Namibian people in the political process so that they would actively
participate in and exercise a free choice in electing a new government.
UNTAG established an information service designed to bolster confidence
in the mission's neutrality and to spread information about the upcoming
elections. The service proved very effective. In November 1989, 97% of
Namibia's registered voters participated in the country's first
democratic elections. A few weeks later, the newly elected Constituent
Assembly convened and on February 9, 1990, a new constitution was
adopted. UNTAG's mission ended in March 1990.


[Box]

UNTAG
Mandate: To ensure free and fair elections in Namibia
Duration: April 1989 to March 1990
Successes: Enhanced credibility of political transition process;
repatriation of 42,736 exiled Namibians; free and fair election of the
Namibian Government
Costs: $383 million

[End Box]

To the top of this page

[IanHarrop 37]

You should have made this a poll - then I could have voted for "Change it".

We need an effective organization. The UN has had a variety of successes and failures, examples are widely available of both. I don't think that "throwing the baby out with the bath water" and starting fresh will be any more effective than reforming the UN.

Will what ever we end up with, whether reforming or starting fresh, have members that are corrupt? You bet! Part of the human condition.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[PhillyKev 0]

For those of you who are voting to scrap the UN on JD's poll. What comment do you have about the above successes? You don't think they are worth it? And if so, why not?

[Jib 0]

The UN is fine for "containing regional conflicts, promoting democracy, and monitoring human rights." It should work as an intermediary between disputes. Rather than reform, a new body needs to be created with that express purpose.
It is and always will be toothless and can't seem to understand that concept. By that I mean, it will never be the world's governing body and should cease being a political body trying to impose liberal values on the world i.e. stay away from our guns and sovereignty.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Ron 7]

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For those of you who are voting to scrap the UN on JD's poll. What comment do you have about the above successes?

I could list as many of more failures.

Oil for food.
China being on the Humans rights commission?


How about this one:

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The United Nations Security Council has passed a resolution that threatens "to consider" oil sanctions on Sudan if the government does not act to end the violence in the country's troubled Darfur region.

Stop or "I *might*" do something.

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North Korea has halted all cooperation with the IAEA, however, and kicked out agency monitors in December 2002.

Yeah that went well.

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GENEVA, Switzerland (AP) -- The United Nations refugee agency said Thursday it is pulling staff out of part of Sudan's conflict-ravaged Darfur region to protest government restrictions on the aid workers.

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The move to conclude a two-year peace process for the south of the African nation came after U.N. chief Kofi Annan called on the council to issue its "strongest warning" to forces fighting in Sudan to sign a peace deal before the end of the year.

"stongest warning?" ...Is that like or else? They have been in Civil war for 21 YEARS

In Darfur Twenty-one months of violence in the region have left tens of thousands dead and driven 1.8 million people from their homes.

The UN is pulling its people out. Great job UN.

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Plans for a U.N. treaty on cloning have been bottled up in the United Nations since 2001.

Why should they get involved? It's not a "World Peace" issue.

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UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) -- The United Nations is investigating about 150 allegations of sexual abuse by U.N. civilian staff and soldiers in the Democratic Republic of Congo, some of them recorded on videotape, a senior U.N. official said on Monday.

I'm sure that helped alot.

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Resolution 181 of 1947

Sure worked great!

This is always nice to see:

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NEW YORK (CNN) -- The authors of a controversial new book filled with stories of wild parties, drinking binges and sex scandals say it's a veritable account of life working for the United Nations.

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World hunger is growing again after a steady fall in the first half of the 1990s, according to the U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization.

Doing good ...But they did add this little gem:
"Countries with higher economic and agricultural growth and low population growth were most successful in reducing hunger, according to preliminary analysis. "...Duh.


This is nice:

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Munoz said many countries lacked the resources or resolve to stem the flow of funds to al Qaeda-related groups and less than half the 191 U.N. member states had failed to submit required reports detailing people and organizations associated with the group.

He said that only 84 out of a 191 member states had submitted their most recent reports on time.

Less than half did what they said they would do....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[airdweller 0]

The UN is a joke

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[airdvr 200]

Without its own forces to deploy it is a toothless giant.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[MC208B 0]

The UN isn't just a joke, it's a crock of socialist shit

[TheAnvil 0]

Hitler did some good things as well - I don't mourn his passing at all.

The UN, like the League of Nations, needs to go the way of the dodo. It's useful solely as a discussion forum. Nothing else.

Let the sonsofbitches pay their parking tickets too.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[mikkey 0]

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Hitler did some good things as well

And what would that be?

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[CornishChris 5]

Whilst the UN is not as effective as perhaps it should be and does have many failings it is all we have. There is no point in creating international laws if there is not some power to govern them. IMHO a huge blow was dealt to the UN when the US & allies (including us Brits) went off gainst them in Iraq. It totally undermined the organisation and helped create the quandry you are now discussing. Had any other country/group of countries done this then things could have been different as it would not have been tolerated by the rest but without the key alliances the UN is pretty much powerless.

We (the world) need to create an UN that has power, uses that power when needed and is respected when decisions are made. There is no point having a nominal group that as soon as a country disagrees with they go out on their own, no matter who that country is.

So: Change it with co-operation from all UN countries and abide by those changes.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[PhillyKev 0]

What happens then? What happens in the Ukraine with a disputed election. At least with the UN there is someone for all sides to turn to in an effort at a neutral dispostion. Otherwise we have the western alliance countries versus eastern alliances. WWI ring a bell?

The reason the UN doesn't have the power you guys say is because it's not supposed to be a ruling agency. It's supposed to be a neutral body that different sides can go to for peaceful resolution of disputes. Yeah, it needs some work to fix and maintain that neutrality. But scrapping it is a bad bad idea.

You say Hitler did some good things, too. Well, I take that to mean you think the UN is as bad as Hitler as well. I'd like to know how so?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Hitler did some good things as well

And what would that be?

Ever hear of Josef Mengele? He advanced our knowledge of genetics with his research on twins.

[Botellines 0]

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Hitler did some good things as well

And what would that be?

Ever hear of Josef Mengele? He advanced our knowledge of genetics with his research on twins.

You are wrong, he did not. Can you point to any significal discovery he made?

[TheAnvil 0]

The 'UN as bad as Hitler' is an inference you make all on your own.

Mikkey - if you really believe every action taken by Herr Hitler was bad, then you've really been reading way too much revisionist history. He made some very smart decisions with regards to the infrastructure of Germany. Unfortunately he was a totally evil, racist sonofabitch with a vision of ruling the entire European continent and perhaps the world.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[mikkey 0]

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The 'UN as bad as Hitler' is an inference you make all on your own.

Mikkey - if you really believe every action taken by Herr Hitler was bad, then you've really been reading way too much revisionist history. He made some very smart decisions with regards to the infrastructure of Germany. Unfortunately he was a totally evil, racist sonofabitch with a vision of ruling the entire European continent and perhaps the world.

The "revisionist history" term is used by neo-nazis to deny the holocaust. Interesting that you are using it.
You do not display a very deep knowledge of the third reich.
Infrastructure? The infrastructure improvements were basically the autobahns which were built to facilitate better troop movements in preparation for the war and as a measure to employ people. However, the economics of these programs were so bad that Germany would have gone broke without starting a war. Saying that Hitler did "good things" because he employed people in unfunded work programs that mostly were done to prepare for war is just plain stupid.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Hitler did some good things as well

And what would that be?

Ever hear of Josef Mengele? He advanced our knowledge of genetics with his research on twins.

You are wrong, he did not. Can you point to any significal discovery he made?

Who said significant?

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Whilst Mengele was the most notorious of the Nazi doctors, his behavior was not an isolated aberration, as many other medical experiments were also carried out at other concentration camps, including Dachau concentration camp, Buchenwald, Ravensbrück, Sachsenhausen, and Natzweiler concentration camps.

According to the indictment at the Nuremberg trials, these experiments included:

High altitude experiments. In early 1942 prisoners at Dachau concentration camp were tortured so the Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) could find out the capacity of the human body to endure and survive high altitude. A low-pressure chamber was used where conditions at altitudes of up to 68,000 feet could be duplicated. Victims of the experiments were forced to suffer these simulated altitudes within the chamber. Many suffered death or serious injury as well as severe pain.

Freezing experiments. Later in 1942 prisoners at Dachau concentration camp suffered experiments so the Luftwaffe could learn how to treat hypothermia. One set of experiments forced victims to endure a tank of ice water, sometimes for as long as 3 hours. Victims rapidly developed extreme rigor. Unsurprisingly many of these unfortunate victims died. Nazi experimenters assessed different ways of rewarming survivors. Other prisoners at Dachau concentration camp screamed with pain when they were forced to remain naked in the open for several hours with temperatures below freezing.

Malaria experiments. From about February 1942 to about April 1945 experiments were conducted at the Dachau concentration camp in order to investigate immunization for and treatment of malaria. Healthy concentration-camp inmates were infected by mosquitoes or by injections of extracts of the mucous glands of mosquitoes. After having contracted malaria the subjects were treated with various drugs to test their relative efficacy. Over 1,000 involuntary subjects were used in these experiments. Many of the victims died and others suffered severe pain and permanent disability.

LOST (mustard) gas experiments. At various times between September 1939 and April 1945 experiments were conducted at Sachsenhausen, Natzweiler, and other concentration camps for the benefit of the German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) to investigate the most effective treatment of wounds caused by LOST gas, a poison commonly known as mustard gas. Wounds deliberately inflicted on the subjects were infected with LOST. Some of the subjects died as a result of these experiments and others suffered intense pain and injury.

Sulfonamide experiments. From about July 1942 to about September 1943 experiments to investigate the effectiveness of sulfonamide were conducted at the Ravensbrück concentration camp for the benefit of the German Armed Forces. Wounds deliberately inflicted on the experimental subjects were infected with bacteria such as streptococcus, gas gangrene, and tetanus. Circulation of blood was interrupted by tying off blood vessels at both ends of the wound to create a condition similar to that of a battlefield wound. Infection was aggravated by forcing wood shavings and ground glass into the wounds. The infection was treated with sulfonamide and other drugs to determine their effectiveness. Some subjects died as a result of these experiments and others suffered serious injury and intense agony.

Bone, muscle, and nerve regeneration and bone transplantation experiments. From about September 1942 to about December 1943 experiments were conducted at the Ravensbrück concentration camp, for the benefit of the German Armed Forces, to study bone, muscle, and nerve regeneration, and bone transplantation from one person to another. Sections of bones, muscles, and nerves were removed from the subjects. As a result of these operations, many victims suffered intense agony, mutilation, and permanent disability.

Sea water experiments. From about July 1944 to about September 1944 experiments were conducted at the Dachau concentration camp, for the benefit of the German Air Force and Navy, to study various methods of making sea water drinkable. The subjects were deprived of all food and given only chemically processed sea water. Such experiments caused great pain and suffering and resulted in serious bodily injury to the victims.

Epidemic jaundice experiments. From about June 1943 to about January 1945 experiments were conducted at the Sachsenhausen and Natzweiler concentration camps, for the benefit of the German Armed Forces, to investigate the causes of, and inoculations against, epidemic jaundice. Experimental subjects were deliberately infected with epidemic jaundice, some of whom died as a result, and others were caused great pain and suffering.

Sterilization experiments. From about March 1941 to about January 1945 sterilization experiments were conducted at the Auschwitz and Ravensbrück concentration camps, and other places. The purpose of these experiments was to develop a method of sterilization which would be suitable for sterilizing millions of people with a minimum of time and effort. These experiments were conducted by means of X-ray, surgery, and various drugs. Thousands of victims were sterilized and thereby suffered great mental and physical anguish. (Aside from its experimentation, the Nazi government sterilized around 400,000 individuals as part of its compulsory sterilization program)

Spotted fever (Fleckfieber) experiments. [It was definitely ascertained in the course of the proceedings, by both prosecution and defense, that the correct translation of Fleckfieber is "typhus". A finding to this effect is contained in the judgment. A similar initial inadequate translation occurred in the case of typhus and paratyphus which should be rendered as typhoid and paratyphoid.] From about December 1941 to about February 1945 experiments were conducted at the Buchenwald and Natzweiler concentration camps, for the benefit of the German Armed Forces, to investigate the effectiveness of spotted fever and other vaccines. At Buchenwald numerous healthy inmates were deliberately infected with spotted fever virus in order to keep the virus alive; over 90 percent of the victims died as a result. Other healthy inmates were used to determine the effectiveness of different spotted fever vaccines and of various chemical substances. In the course of these experiments 75 percent of the selected number of inmates were vaccinated with one of the vaccines or nourished with one of the chemical substances and, after a period of 3 to 4 weeks, were infected with spotted fever germs. The remaining 25 percent were infected without any previous protection in order to compare the effectiveness of the vaccines and the chemical substances. As a result, hundreds of the persons experimented upon died. Experiments with yellow fever, smallpox, typhus, paratyphus A and B, cholera, and diphtheria were also conducted. Similar experiments with like results were conducted at Natzweiler concentration camp.

Experiments with poison. In or about December 1943, and in or about October 1944, experiments were conducted at the Buchenwald concentration camp to investigate the effect of various poisons upon human beings. The poisons were secretly administered to experimental subjects in their food. The victims died as a result of the poison or were killed immediately in order to permit autopsies. In or about September 1944 experimental subjects were shot with poison bullets and suffered torture and death.

Incendiary bomb experiments. From about November 1943 to about January 1944 experiments were conducted at the Buchenwald concentration camp to test the effect of various pharmaceutical preparations on phosphorus burns. These burns were inflicted on experimental subjects with phosphorus matter taken from incendiary bombs, and caused severe pain, suffering, and serious bodily injury.

An additional source on Mengele:

http://www.whale.to/b/mengele.html

[mikkey 0]

So these sadistic and murderous experiments on human beings were a good thing? What is wrong with you people?

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So these sadistic and murderous experiments on human beings were a good thing? What is wrong with you people?

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, go back and re-read what was said. You are drawing a wrong conclusion.

[CornishChris 5]

I'm sorry I'm with Mikey on this one. This has just got very fucked up.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[mikkey 0]

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So these sadistic and murderous experiments on human beings were a good thing? What is wrong with you people?

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, go back and re-read what was said. You are drawing a wrong conclusion.

Well you wrote:

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Hitler did some good things as well

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And what would that be?

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Ever hear of Josef Mengele? He advanced our knowledge of genetics with his research on twins.

So there was question if Hitler did anything good and you referred to Mengele and his sick experiments. How else can this be read???

And if you were implying that in spite of Mengele's crimes something 'good" came out of it (genetic research), then you are deranged in your views. No research or its results is "good' if it is based on the murder and torture of humans including children.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So there was question if Hitler did anything good and you referred to Mengele and his sick experiments. How else can this be read???

It can be read many ways. You are insinuating I approve of anything Mengele did... which I don't. However if any nugget of information came out of his insane brutality, how can you say that isn't good?

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And if you were implying that in spite of Mengele's crimes something 'good" came out of it (genetic research), then you are deranged in your views. No research or its results is "good' if it is based on the murder and torture of humans including children.

I disagree and just because I disagree doesn't mean I approve of his brutality. I do however see a difference between Mengele and Jeffrey Dahmer. Suppose Mengele had discovered a way to prevent heart disease and millions of people were saved from heart failure every year. Would you say nothing good came out of his work?

[mr2mk1g 10]

Teacher: "And here children you will see a live example of Godwin's law at work".

Children: "ooooooo"

[Ripple 0]

And it only took 9 posts!


Ok, so not a strict interpretation

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