Guest #1 November 6, 2004 Local reaction to last week's slaying in the Netherlands. Contrary to liberalism, some societies and cultures are better than others, and some are worse - much worse. The Dutch are just now finding that out, it seems. mh edit to add - I was in a hurry when I posted this and didn't go back to proof it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #2 November 7, 2004 From the article: Quote"There is a general feeling that a social collision is becoming inevitable," said Jan Rath, co-director of the Institute for Migration and Ethnic Studies at the University of Amsterdam. "People think it's been building for years and now finally coming to the surface." No, tell me it isn't true! Mild mannered European countries are victims of Islamic terrorism? Maybe they should look deep into their soul and reflect upon what they did to make them mad? Time to pick a side. In my opinion, war against the Western world has already been declared. The sooner we realize that, and fight this war like a real war, not just a criminal matter for the police to handle, the sooner their leaders will change to embrace peaceful ways. Indeed, the true face of Islam - not extremist, quite mainstream.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #3 November 7, 2004 We have "Christians" in this country that shoot abortion doctors and bomb clinics, a form of terrorism But we just do not call it that. Try not to define a people by the actions of a few, unless you are willing to live with the same label for yourself. Islam is not a terrorist religion, nor a violent one. There are just a lot more of them out there that Christians, and therefore a lot more nut-bars too. We have our own Christion nut-bars - Jim Jones, David Koresh, and many would argue Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh get over it. TK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #4 November 7, 2004 I've heard before that a Bleeding Heart Liberal is just a Ultra-Conservative who hasn't has his daughter raped and murdered yet... just one off-colored variation of the joke. Well it appears that it may be more true than ever before. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #5 November 7, 2004 QuoteFrom the article: Quote"There is a general feeling that a social collision is becoming inevitable," said Jan Rath, co-director of the Institute for Migration and Ethnic Studies at the University of Amsterdam. "People think it's been building for years and now finally coming to the surface." No, tell me it isn't true! Mild mannered European countries are victims of Islamic terrorism? Maybe they should look deep into their soul and reflect upon what they did to make them mad? We know EXACTLY all that a society, or an individual, has to do to get Islam to wage war against it: Simply have the audacity to consider yourself free to criticize Islam. Islam will not abide anyone speaking out against it, or criticizing any part of it. They consider that a killing offense. It is absurd for us to think that Islam can be dealt with in a rational, reasonable way. It reminds me of a guy in the inner city who will kill because someone "dissed" him, or didn't "give him props." Perceived slights are punishable by death. That is not civilized behavior. It is folly to expect reasonable actions from such a culture. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #6 November 7, 2004 IMO The bad actor's have the advantage of force multiplers and a decentralized chain of command. How may people do they actually represent? I sure don't no, and don't no if anyony does even if they say they do. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #7 November 7, 2004 QuoteIslam is not a terrorist religion, nor a violent one. There are just a lot more of them out there that Christians, and therefore a lot more nut-bars too. There are almost twice as many Christians in the world as there are Muslims.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #8 November 7, 2004 QuoteIMO The bad actor's have the advantage of force multiplers and a decentralized chain of command. How may people do they actually represent? I sure don't no, and don't no if anyony does even if they say they do. R.I.P. Why do you type "no" instead of "know"? -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #9 November 7, 2004 Right you are - 2 billion Christians, 1.3 billion Muslims, was going from my head and not the stats - does not negate my original arguement. They have nut-jobs, we have nut-jobs. Islam is still not a violent religion by nature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #10 November 7, 2004 QuoteWe have "Christians" in this country that shoot abortion doctors and bomb clinics, a form of terrorism... But we just do not call it that. I certainly do, and so do a lot of others. And they are pursued by the justice system with great vigor. I understand that judges have recently ruled that 'hit lists' must be allowed, but that is just a matter for law makers to define an acceptable law that can stand judicial/constitutional review. Such radicals are not hailed as heroes by many, however Bin Laden is. Big difference. Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh are certainly 'nut-bars'. But I truly hope you actually can see the difference in how they are received by our culture compared to how Bin Laden is received in his culture. Big diference.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #11 November 7, 2004 QuoteIn my opinion, war against the Western world has already been declared. The sooner we realize that, and fight this war like a real war, not just a criminal matter for the police to handle, the sooner their leaders will change to embrace peaceful ways. Indeed, the true face of Islam - not extremist, quite mainstream. Some prick in Holland murders somebody and you call it terrorism and lay the blame on a billion Muslims. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #12 November 7, 2004 QuoteSimply have the audacity to consider yourself free to criticize Islam. i still believe it makes a big difference which audience you choose to speak up to go to one of these hardcore christians sects and say that you think what they do is bs - i bet you get the same reaction from them as from any other hardcore hindu, muslim, catholic .... - you name it as stated before: each side has its nutcases. the problem - as i see it - is that only the nutcases get media coverage. the non-radical majority stays quiet. unfortunately. i ask myself many times: where is this silent majority. why don't they speak up against radicalism of any sort? The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #13 November 7, 2004 QuoteTerry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh are certainly 'nut-bars'. But I truly hope you actually can see the difference in how they are received by our culture compared to how Bin Laden is received in his culture. Big diference. Are you saying that Bin Laden is some sort of hero in all of Islamic culture? Because he is not. Most think he is a terrorist and a murderer. So again, I think SOME of Muslims think he is cool. I also think some white, red-blooded, Christian Ameriancs think that Tim McVeigh was cool too. some of them, not most or all of them. TK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #14 November 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteIMO The bad actor's have the advantage of force multiplers and a decentralized chain of command. How may people do they actually represent? I sure don't no, and don't no if anyony does even if they say they do. R.I.P. Why do you type "no" instead of "know"? -Jeffrey For the same reason you call yourself PJ. Are you a spelling nazi? since you asked the question you must understand the intent. Damn no I fogort what you said can you repeat that pleaseR.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #15 November 7, 2004 QuoteIslam will not abide anyone speaking out against it, or criticizing any part of it. They consider that a killing offense WTF !!!!!!!!! Generalization about an entire religion like this because of a single wacko are absolutely ridiculous! Honestly man, of anybody that posts on dz.com you frighten me the most. Islam is far more open to criticism than you would think, many muslims believe that it is an integral part of their faith to interpret the Koran with the consideration that it was written a long time ago and that as society changes, so must the faith modernize. As for criticism from the outside, you can't make that statement on the basis of this isolated incident. Have you ever even met a Muslim?Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #16 November 7, 2004 QuoteWTF !!!!!!!!! Generalization about an entire religion like this because of a single wacko are absolutely ridiculous! Honestly man, of anybody that posts on dz.com you frighten me the most. This is SC how can you be frightened in cyber space by a person that calls themselve's "Peaceful Jeffrey", talks about hate, guns, knives, killing the pole climber because PJ doesn't have any electricity after a major hurricane. If your afraid of spiders, are you afraid of spider man? This is cyber space and free speech enjoy it for what it is. If you get ecared reading fiction try a different forum. Of course there's plenty of folks like PJ that are real when they stop talking then it's time to worry. For now don't worry be happy PJ is the least of our problems and damn entertainingR.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #17 November 7, 2004 Where is the outrage from the Islamic leadership? When happens is that the "acts" will be condemned, but there is no action to take out the group that committed the acts. Sure, I am guilty of some generalization. But don't you remember the celebration in the streets of some Muslim countries? Ever seen what goes on at the madrassas (sp?) that serve as the only schooling for so many Muslim children? Ever heard Muslim leaders preaching hate to their congregation while putting on a 'moderate' face for the western press? One notable exception was the younger generation in Iran, where large rallies in support of the US happened the day after 9/11. edit to add: Major newspapers in the Middle East and elsewhere routinely publish stories claiming the Jews torture and kill children to harvest their blood for use in holiday pastries. Palestinians read Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, the inspiration behind the Holocaust and the Jewish conspiracy theory that teaches the world’s problems can be laid at the feet of the Jews. The children are even taught that AIDS was invented by Jews to kill Arabs. They are indoctrinated that blowing up Jews is the only way to save the world.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #18 November 7, 2004 QuoteWTF !!!!!!!!! Generalization about an entire religion like this because of a single wacko Generalizations can be a dangerous way to consider any race or religion. and this guy may indeed have been a single wacko along the lines of the Oklahoma bombers or the cultists at Waco. However there does seem to be a great number of people who on one hand claim this particular religion to be one of peace, love and tolerance, while one the other hand still believe stoning women to death for adultery is OK and belive that by sucide bombing and killing a bunch of people, wether they be Isrealies, Yanks or Aussies, (and usually civilian inocents), gaurantees them a place in paradise at the right hand of God. Just my.02 worth!Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #19 November 7, 2004 Quote However there does seem to be a great number of people who on one hand claim this particular religion to be one of peace, love and tolerance, while one the other hand still believe stoning women to death for adultery is OK and belive that by sucide bombing and killing a bunch of people, wether they be Isrealies, Yanks or Aussies, (and usually civilian inocents), gaurantees them a place in paradise at the right hand of God. Christains are: Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Mormans, etc etc and each of those sects has sub sects: United Methodists, First United Methodist, etc etc. I'm guessing there's more than one Islam belief structure out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #20 November 7, 2004 QuoteMajor newspapers in the Middle East and elsewhere routinely publish stories claiming the Jews torture and kill children to harvest their blood for use in holiday pastries. Palestinians read Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, the inspiration behind the Holocaust and the Jewish conspiracy theory that teaches the world’s problems can be laid at the feet of the Jews. The children are even taught that AIDS was invented by Jews to kill Arabs. They are indoctrinated that blowing up Jews is the only way to save the world. you know, when i read these publications (and yes, they are true) i often think to myself that we're lucky that their inventions are so outrageous and absurd that no one could ever believe it. then again, if i was taught that the world is flat since i was a baby, i'd probably have believed it... peace must start with proper education, we can fight guns and explosives but we can't fight embedded hate . O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #21 November 7, 2004 Quotepeace must start with proper education, we can fight guns and explosives but we can't fight embedded hate that is so true. politicians on all sides must surely realise that, and assuming they do then you have to wonder what vested interest they have in keeping the status quo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #22 November 7, 2004 Quotepeace must start with proper education, we can fight guns and explosives but we can't fight embedded hate Yes indeed. In my opinion, it will take a leader such as Egypt's Sadat to advocate a change. I don't think this change will be hastened by appeasement.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #23 November 7, 2004 QuoteQuotepeace must start with proper education, we can fight guns and explosives but we can't fight embedded hate Yes indeed. In my opinion, it will take a leader such as Egypt's Sadat to advocate a change. I don't think this change will be hastened by appeasement. Sadat was assasinated by islamic fundamentalists. The same might happen to anyone else offering similar policies towards a "mid-east solution". This has grown beyond Israel anyway. That's just the useful canard that's thrown around these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #24 November 8, 2004 Because there is not "Central" leadership just like the Buddist movement has no central leader. Each sect has its own leader and most of them have came out and spoke against those that are doing violence. Its hard to get the equal of the pope to denouce something if the person does'nt exist.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #25 November 8, 2004 Speaking against the violence is usually just lip service to appear PC for the western world. Like when suicide bombers attack Israel, and the actions are denounced by the Palestinian Authority. The actions are committed by groups within their jurisdiction, but they do nothing to break up the groups that commit the actions. The Palestinian Authority actually has held meetings with the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, then later acts powerless to stop the violence. I conclude from this that they do not have the political power or will to stop this group, so Israel has no choice but to do it themselves. Denouncing violence is easy, actions to stop it are something else. Bush had the guts to declare that Arafat was no longer a partner for peace. As long as he (or anyone with such terrorist connections) was in power, the USA would not assist them in their quest for a solution to their problems. That took a lot of political guts, and he deserves a lot of credit for finally doing it. edit - Pakistan's President Musharraf is a good example of a leader of an Islamic country willing to do the right thing at great personal risk.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
