Should Britan be armed?

[pajarito 0]

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One day there will be someone figuring out that butter knifes are weapons.

Butter knives make good weapons.

[christelsabine 1]

You know what I mean.

I know the thread with the butter knife.

There isn't any logic in saying, a gun simply is a tool..and a butter knife is.... dangerous enough to send a little school boy back home? Hahahah..
No guiding principle at all.

You guys are weird

@ Pajarito. If it's sharpened it enough, even a plastic tea spoon could be a weapon. You surely know better than me.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Kennedy 0]

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There isn't any logic in saying, a gun simply is a tool..and a butter knife is.... dangerous enough to send a little school boy back home? Hahahah..

No guiding principle at all.

You guys are weird

If you go back and re-read things, you'll see I strongly disagree with punishing the boy for his lunch butter knife. I was pointing out how out of hand bureaucrats have gotten. The butter knife was an example of idiocy, not something to be emulated.

No tool is inherenly bad. They are inanimate objects. That's why we oppose ridiculous statements like "guns cause crime."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

speaking of knives...

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John Rennie, a 60-year-old cafe worker with angina, chronic back pain and diabetes, prided himself on being a slow and careful driver. When his erratic braking on the streets of Carlisle led to an angry confrontation with another driver, former rugby player Jamie Hughes, 30, Rennie was certain that it would only be a matter of time before he was attacked.

Grabbing the knife he always kept in his car, Rennie pulled over and got out. When Hughes stopped his car, Rennie walked over and plunged the four-inch blade into the younger man's heart.

'I was pushed to the limit and I was really scared,' Rennie explained after he was arrested. 'The guy was shouting and going on and gesturing and I thought that if he saw the knife he would maybe back down. A guy of his size following me, he was not going to stop. I wanted to scare him off.'

Thanks to emergency surgery, Hughes survived. Last week Rennie, who had no prior convictions and was described by those who knew him as 'old fashioned' and 'mild mannered', was jailed for three years after being found guilty of unlawful wounding.

The case comes at a time when police forces across the country are experiencing a dramatic increase in knife crime. Government figures show that offences involving the possession of offensive weapons, the vast majority of which are knives, have risen by 36 per cent since 1999. Murders involving sharp instruments rose from 200 in 1997 to 272 in 2003.

The problem is particularly acute in London, where an internal report by the Metropolitan police found that a crime involving a knife takes place every 25 minutes. A 5 per cent rise in violent crime in the capital has been blamed almost entirely on an increase in the number of muggers and burglars arming themselves with knives.

Last week Robert Symons, a 45-year-old father-of-two, died from a single stab wound to the heart after confronting a burglar in the kitchen of his home in Chiswick, west London. Detectives have found a kitchen knife which they believe to be the murder weapon. Forensic tests have yet to establish whether the intruder grabbed it from the family's kitchen or had it when he entered the house.

There were 14,110 knife offences in London between June 2003 and March this year. Most offenders are aged between 12 and 20 but these figures mask the fact that many older people are also carrying and using knives. One in five knife attacks involves an offender over the age of 25. Senior police officers admit that statistics on the ages of those who carry knives are biased towards the younger generation, as older men are less likely to be stopped and searched.

Commander Simon Foy, head of the Met's anti-knife campaign, Operation Blunt, said: 'We are well aware that there is a problem with older people carrying knives. It is not something we are complacent about but the focus of our efforts is the younger generation. We hope that in the future the introduction of specialist anti-knife patrols and the use of portable metal detectors that can distinguish between knives and other metallic objects will help to catch and ultimately deter all ages from carrying such weapons.'

Nicholas, a 44-year-old engineer from Hertfordshire, is typical of this older generation of knife carriers. He rarely travels anywhere unless he is armed. 'It's a bit of extra security and makes me feel safe. When you get that bit older, you need something to even up the odds. I used to carry a lock-knife but now I carry a Leatherman multi-purpose tool. It has a four-inch blade but because of all the other bits that come with it I can claim I use it for work. Almost everyone I know does the same. If you get caught with a knife you risk getting a fine but with one of these you can get away with it.'

Nicholas says he would not use his weapon other than to scare off a potential opponent but a report published last week by the Bridge House Trust on the spread of knife culture found that those who carry knives to defend themselves will often find themselves caught up in violence.

'Some people are said to carry knives and other weapons to feel safer but with no intention of using them,' said the study. 'In fact, carrying a knife puts them at far greater risk of being stabbed or committing an aggressive act and being labelled an offender. While fear may be the motive, aggression may be the result.'

There are many examples of older men's involvement in knife crime. In June, 42-year-old Patrick Hemmings was jailed for life after stabbing a 28-year-old man who had bumped into the back of his car. He knifed him through the heart with a 10-inch blade that he kept in his car for his own safety.

In July, a 47-year-old man allegedly stabbed to death his younger male lover as the pair argued while driving along a sliproad of the M25. A few months earlier, 40-year-old Andrew Tolmie was jailed for four years after repeatedly stabbing a younger driver who flashed his lights to complain that Tolmie was driving while using a mobile phone.

Knives are also finding fresh favour with the underworld, especially since the introduction of a five-year minimum sentence for anyone caught in possession of a firearm. The gangster-turned-author Horace Silver, 45, whose semi-autobiographical novel Judas Pig chronicles his time with a notorious East London firm, says knives are now regularly used in preference to other weapons, especially by older criminals.

'If you shoot someone you know the police are going to look at it seriously and suspect gang involvement,' he said. 'If you stab someone, it often gets dismissed as a simple bar brawl or street fight. Using a knife is also a lot more personal so it's a way of sending a message to others.'

Eager to cash in, major gun manufacturers including Kalashnikov, Glock, Heckler and Koch, Smith & Wesson and Browning all now have extensive knife ranges. The booming market is aimed at enticing those living in countries where handguns are no longer legal to maintain loyalty to their favourite brand. An advertisement for the Kalashnikov KAL knife, price £180, states that it 'complements the style found in the original AK-47 assault rifle' and is 'synonymous with genius, strength and reliability'.

The Bridge House Trust report found that these 'combat' knives have a particular appeal to young people. 'The pleasure of holding, possessing and brandishing what only the adult, brave and qualified soldier is allowed to carry legally is part of many young boys' childhood, whatever their social background,' said the report. 'In this sense knives are a "link with adulthood" for some children.'

One of the most worrying aspects of knife culture uncovered by both the Met report and other studies is the startling ignorance about the damage a knife can do. Last month 59-year-old Edward Kitts of St Austell was jailed for five years after stabbing a young man to death during a scuffle over dog mess. Kitts stabbed the man with the eight-inch kitchen knife he habitually carried in his jacket, then walked home with his dog.

It was only the next day when he heard a news bulletin saying that the man had died that Kitts realised the seriousness of what he had done and gave himself up.

According to Foy, such ignorance is not uncommon. 'We often hear people say something along the lines of "I only stabbed him a little bit" or "it was only a small knife". Even the smallest of blades can cause the most horrific injuries and some of the complications that can result from seemingly shallow wounds can be extremely grave. Showing the truth about knife wounds is often the best way to put young people off carrying them.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1334686,00.html

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Guns are not a cause of crime or of anything else. They are a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

Silly Kennedy! Hammers and screwdrivers are tools. Guns are noisy, scary killing machines.

"Designed to kill as many people as possible in as little time as possible" -- which of course is why the police have them.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

This just shows the utter insanity to which Britain has sunk.

A few choice quotes and comments follow.

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The case comes at a time when police forces across the country are experiencing a dramatic increase in knife crime. Government figures show that offences involving the possession of offensive weapons, the vast majority of which are knives, have risen by 36 per cent since 1999. Murders involving sharp instruments rose from 200 in 1997 to 272 in 2003.

Well hell! As long as they're not getting murdered with guns I don't see a problem! Do you see a problem? I don't see a problem. What's the next step? Ban all kitchen knives? Ban all utility knives? Ban all hunting knives? Since we know the answer is "no," then we move on to examining laws that restrict carrying knives -- the next logical possibility for action. And if we would do that, and expect anti-knife-carrying laws to work, why wouldn't the U.K. consider the same sort of scenario for guns: keep whatever guns you want in your homes for home defense, but no carrying. Just like they're trying to do with knives.

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Last week Robert Symons, a 45-year-old father-of-two, died from a single stab wound to the heart after confronting a burglar in the kitchen of his home in Chiswick, west London. Detectives have found a kitchen knife which they believe to be the murder weapon. Forensic tests have yet to establish whether the intruder grabbed it from the family's kitchen or had it when he entered the house.

Like I said, how can one possibly expect to address this by focusing on THE TOOLS?! People HAVE to have knives in their homes! What's coming next in Britain? Having to LOCK UP ALL HOUSEHOLD KNIVES so that they can't be used against you by a violent criminal who enters your home initially unarmed but arms himself with your very own knives?! Then why not require them to lock up the fireplace pokers and cricket bats too, since an unarmed criminal could break into your home, find those, and kill you with them!

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There were 14,110 knife offences in London between June 2003 and March this year. Most offenders are aged between 12 and 20 but these figures mask the fact that many older people are also carrying and using knives. One in five knife attacks involves an offender over the age of 25.

What, exactly, is a "knife offence"? Does it imply USING the knife criminally, and violently, against another person? Or does it even include such innocuous things as being a non-criminal who just happens to get caught with a knife that the police consider a "no-no"? (I hear it is very hard to find a knife that can be carried in Britain without running afoul of the law that says you may not have any defensive weapons. Can you imagine having a law like that?! You're not allowed to carry anything that might do you some good in self defense! How fucked up is that?!?! Is it the express intent of Parliament to force people to be at the mercy of criminals?!

And just what is up with referring to suspects over 25 years old as "older"? When they said "older," I was picturing 65-year-old codgers!

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Senior police officers admit that statistics on the ages of those who carry knives are biased towards the younger generation, as older men are less likely to be stopped and searched.

"Stopped and searched." "Stopped and searched!! What kind of fucked-up police-state is being run over there?! The police can just "stop and search" people?! What the FUCK did we save the Brits' asses from the NAZIS for if they were going to just be NAZIS to THEMSELVES?!

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Commander Simon Foy, head of the Met's anti-knife campaign, Operation Blunt, said: 'We are well aware that there is a problem with older people carrying knives. It is not something we are complacent about but the focus of our efforts is the younger generation. We hope that in the future the introduction of specialist anti-knife patrols and the use of portable metal detectors that can distinguish between knives and other metallic objects will help to catch and ultimately deter all ages from carrying such weapons.'

"A 'problem' with older people carrying knives"...
Knives. A tool nearly as old as mankind itself. And the British government and police view having this ESSENTIAL TOOL on one's person in case it should be needed as a 'problem' that needs to be addressed with warrantless frisks and searches. This is some truly fucked-up shit right here, people. The paradigm shift to where the police treat it as a de facto "evil" that someone simply CARRIES a KNIFE -- no mention of INTENT TO USE IT VIOLENTLY -- that intent is simply presumed to be present in anyone who would carry a specimen of this triumph of man's imagination and intelligence, and his hard-earned skill at working with metal. What the fuck did we evolve from cavemen for in the first place, if the fruits of that evolution would be BANNED from us by idiot politicians and moron policemen?!

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Nicholas says he would not use his weapon other than to scare off a potential opponent but a report published last week by the Bridge House Trust on the spread of knife culture found that those who carry knives to defend themselves will often find themselves caught up in violence.

Oh, so now it's no longer, "A person carrying a tool as useful as a knife," it's "the knife culture"

"The spread of 'knife culture.' "

What exactly is the SPREAD of a thing that has been around for THOUSANDS OF FUCKING YEARS, YOU MORONIC PIECES OF SHIT IN THE BRIDGE HOUSE TRUST?! This is not something "NEW"!! The only "NEW" thing is the asinine policy of trying to OUTLAW KNIVES.

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'Some people are said to carry knives and other weapons to feel safer but with no intention of using them,' said the study. 'In fact, carrying a knife puts them at far greater risk of being stabbed or committing an aggressive act and being labelled an offender. While fear may be the motive, aggression may be the result.'

I have an idea: NEUTER the male British population. Take all the aggression out of them. Make them more like Parliament. (Oh, wait, Parliament IS aggressive... at taking away people's rights for NONSENSICAL REASONS.)

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Knives are also finding fresh favour with the underworld, especially since the introduction of a five-year minimum sentence for anyone caught in possession of a firearm. The gangster-turned-author Horace Silver, 45, whose semi-autobiographical novel Judas Pig chronicles his time with a notorious East London firm, says knives are now regularly used in preference to other weapons, especially by older criminals.

And I am laughing my fucking ass off here, at the lack of foresight that resulted in the gun ban that precipitates this turn of events. Didn't see this coming? WE [I]AMERICANS[/I] DID!

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One of the most worrying aspects of knife culture uncovered by both the Met report and other studies is the startling ignorance about the damage a knife can do ... According to Foy, such ignorance is not uncommon. 'We often hear people say something along the lines of "I only stabbed him a little bit" or "it was only a small knife". Even the smallest of blades can cause the most horrific injuries and some of the complications that can result from seemingly shallow wounds can be extremely grave. Showing the truth about knife wounds is often the best way to put young people off carrying them

If you'd asked, we could have told you that it was out of the frying pan and into the fire when you banned guns. WE knew that knife wounds are typically significantly more lethal than gunshot wounds. You traded the devil you knew for the devil you didn't know. When people get shot at, lots of them get missed. Lots of them survive the wounds pretty easily. Not so with knives. Hard to "miss" a stab! Easier to conceal a knife. Knives never run out of ammunition, either, so you could stab a guy fifty times in no time at all.

So alerting kids who carry knives to hurt people to the fact that knives are very effective at causing grievous harm and death is going to DISSUADE them from carrying them...

Holy fucking shit, England is down the crapper. Forget 'em. If this is how they think, they are too far gone for us to do anything to help them, and we should just forget 'em like they did in "28 Days Later" and let them tear each other apart, and focus our productive energies on the rest of the world.

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It was only the next day when he heard a news bulletin saying that the man had died that Kitts realised the seriousness of what he had done and gave himself up.

It took this piece of shit a day to realize that stabbing a person was serious, and that a guy could die of it?! What the fuck is wrong with your schools over there?!

Like I said, forget Britain. Too far gone. Must be drinking out of lead goblets all over again or something.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

The thread started with, "Should Britain be armed?"

I think the answer is obvious.

Britain IS armed.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Paulipod 0]

I honestly cant see how there is confusion as to why there is a need to stop the production and public sale of non-necessary and deadly items.....

Yes, knives are deadly, Yes people will kill if they want to... but guns are hardly necessary and knives of a utility nature generally are necessary.

Why stop there? If we should allow people to own guns why not more? maybe grenades or anti-personnel mines for home garden protection? After all its not the deadly weapons that kill people.

All I have to say about a knive is... I have the option to run or more easily defend myself... dodging bullets I'll leave to the hollywood stuntmen.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[bigway 4]

Yeah, whatever.
Britain is not armed!!!
There are game bird hunters and clay shooters and the odd gangsta with a gun but the general public of the united kingdom is not at all armed. For starters it is illegal to own a pistol. The british public do not want a pistol because it is not needed here.
For an american to sit here and say that britian is armed, this american wants to belive this because he is a gun lover.
i think it is well known in this forum that the only people here who think britain is armed is the americans. The english and scottish here know damn well that we are not walking around with guns in our bags and pockets. I am also willing to say that as a landlord of arough pub that has gypsys causing alot of trouble that there is knowone here that carries a gun, the only people that have a gun are game hunters and clay shooters. if the americans want to sit here and say that we are armed like they are, these people need to realise that they do not know shit about this country. you can say this all you want but the simple fact is England is NOTHING like the states, a complete different culture and the English general public are very proud of this.
Jeffery you need to stop saying all this bullshit about britain being armed and start showing the figures. i would love to know why you think there are 4 million guns in this country.
The general public of Britain is NOT armed and for an american to sit there saying this well, it is all in his gun loving outspoken aroggant mind.
Get a clue, just because you are a gun lover does not say that we need to be armed or that we are armed. This country has balls, the people of this country do not pull out guns to solve their problems, they stand there and defend themselves and sort out their problems like men should, if a knife gets pulled they will run or take it head on. If someone pulls a knife this does not mean you are dead, if someone pulls a gun, it means you probably are. This country is not affraid of guns because it is very rare that someone in the street has a gun. if there were more guns their would be more murders and more street killings and school shootings and gun detectors in our schools and kids to scared to walk home and people afraid of walking the streets at night and we would become everything that is bad about america in the long run. Now if jeffery wants to sit here telling us this is a good thing, He should realise that he has a twisted mind that is not wanted in this country. I am pretty sure you lived in this country and hated it, i see why you hated it and it would be because we did not let you carry a gun. Now because hate this countries way of life do not sit here telling us that our country is armed or that we need to be.
just know that your country is known for school killings and thousands of mureders and innocent killings and drive-by shootings every year. This is not welcome in England and neither is your pathetic reasons of why we need guns.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

You need to worry about your own country, you sound like you have problems in your head. All you are doing in this thread is abusing everything about England and this is not wanted. If you want to bash England come over here and do it. Do not sit behind a computer abusing the rights and wishes of the British public. You dont seem to get it through your thick skull that this country does not feel the need to be armed. Your country has proved to us that guns are The worst thing in the world. Look at your country and realise how Guns have made your country a very unsafe place. Our cops do not carry guns because we do not feel afraid like you do. Get a clue or go to war where your mentality will be welcomed.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

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"Designed to kill as many people as possible in as little time as possible" -- which of course is why the police have them.

this is the whole point we do not want them and do not need them. Your mentality is fucked up

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Paulipod 0]

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Knives. A tool nearly as old as mankind itself. And the British government and police view having this ESSENTIAL TOOL on one's person in case it should be needed as a 'problem' that needs to be addressed with warrantless frisks and searches. This is some truly fucked-up shit right here, people. The paradigm shift to where the police treat it as a de facto "evil" that someone simply CARRIES a KNIFE -- no mention of INTENT TO USE IT VIOLENTLY

This has got to be the most bizarre reasoning I have seen for a while....

Carrying knives around the street is hardly necessary for anyone! what? in case I see a tree I need to carve? or a rope I need to shorten?

Be realistic. If someone has an 'offensive' knive under their coat there is only one reason its there.

Maybe if we still lived in a jungle, or still had to cut our lunch after freshly trapping it... but to carve my McChicken sandwich?! I dont think so.

Seriously Jeffrey, do you feel outraged that youre not allowed to buy C4 at your local home depot? After all, in small amounts this can be a useful tool... and its only the criminals that blow shit up so why should everyone else be restriced?

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[kelpdiver 2]

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All I have to say about a knive is... I have the option to run or more easily defend myself... dodging bullets I'll leave to the hollywood stuntmen.

Do you know how hard it is to hit a moving target? Go to the range (oops, sorry, well come here to California) and try hitting a paper target at 25ft in calm. By 50ft few people, let alone the criminal element which doesn't go to the range to practice, can score a hit.

Hollywood is where the good or bad guy can hit his mark between the eyes at some ridiculous distance, and half a second later get two more. If you base your expectations of a gun fight on what you see in the movies, it's no wonder you find them fearsome.

[Paulipod 0]

I think that bullet dodging, regardless of the skill needed to hit me, or the chances is something I would not want to try....

Let alone automatics!, dodging one bullet would be scary enough let alone a barrage!

Tell all the people that get shot everyday that they should have been better movers

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[jakee 1,257]

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It took this piece of shit a day to realize that stabbing a person was serious, and that a guy could die of it?! What the fuck is wrong with your schools over there?!

Don't be silly.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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At least he's right though – statistically there is a far greater chance of being shot in the US than here - 34 times more likely in fact. The figures have been posted in the thread several times now.

But if you're not a felon, your odds of being shot in the US are substantially lower. It's somewhat surprising to me that gangs in the UK manage to end their fights without deaths.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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But if you're not a felon, your odds of being shot in the US are substantially lower.

Source that claim.

[Paulipod 0]

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It's somewhat surprising to me that gangs in the UK manage to end their fights without deaths

That will be one of the key cultural differences, yes we do have some gangs in the UK... but nowhere near the level I have seen in the US.

Not only are gangs fewer in numbers, but they all dont carry guns and go out looking to kill each other.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think that bullet dodging, regardless of the skill needed to hit me, or the chances is something I would not want to try....

Let alone automatics!, dodging one bullet would be scary enough let alone a barrage!

Tell all the people that get shot everyday that they should have been better movers

So have you ever fired a machine gun? Again, it is not at all like in the movies. Few can fire more than a burst of 3-4 rounds before the recoil has you aiming at the sky. Accuracy suffers - very bad for those in the background of the intended victim.

Anyhow, given a choice of gun versus knife, I just want to know I'm faster than he is. Did you know that knife wounds have a higher mortality rate?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Mate, PJ can rant, shout, howl his indignation as much as he likes, it doesn't matter.
All he does in his little tirades is demonstrate how emotionally driven his opinion is. Ultimately he is as influential over this, as we are over his elections.

Talking gun control with the forum's regular hoplophiles is like banging your head against a brick wall, they will not change their opinion, and neither will we.

Okay, I've said it before in this sort of debate, lets once again consider who would carry the flag for gun legislation change in the UK, and under what banner?

Labour party....Lets allow citizens to carry guns because we (the govt) cant protect them, and crime is out of control. Anyone see this happening in this present time-space continuum? Anyone? D'uh...

The opposition, the right wing tories, well, nobody listens to them anymore, there probably won't be any Tory representation north of the border this time next year.
PJ, and similar pro gun hoplophiles, I'm afraid your last best hope for gun legislation change is to side with ....yep.... The Liberals, they will surely understand your desire to have many guns, even to give them names and treat them like living things. They will also support the need to pretend that you are a militia and actually have an effect on defending our nations shores.
The SNP and Plaid Cymru would probably support the ownership of firearms just in case we end up with a rogue government, and may postulate that we need them for this purpose. But nobody in England will vote for them.

Or give it up, you're flogging a dead horse and nobody really cares about how you think we should live our lives.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Paulipod 0]

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So have you ever fired a machine gun? Again, it is not at all like in the movies. Few can fire more than a burst of 3-4 rounds before the recoil has you aiming at the sky. Accuracy suffers - very bad for those in the background of the intended victim.

Anyhow, given a choice of gun versus knife, I just want to know I'm faster than he is. Did you know that knife wounds have a higher mortality rate?

I cant believe you mean you would rather face someone with a machine gun than a knife?!

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[kelpdiver 2]

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But if you're not a felon, your odds of being shot in the US are substantially lower.

Source that claim.

The compiler should be treated with suspicion, but it includes citations:
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvmurd.html

An example:
San Francisco - In 1999, 74% of identified homicide suspects had prior criminal histories (source [pdf] [p. 176]). 67.5% of the homicide victims had a criminal history. 75% of juveniles and 48% of the adult homicide and assault victims had between 2 and 10 felony charges

This shouldn't really be surprising to you. The drug trade has high profits and a lot of players interesting in them. Since it already entails long prison terms, shooting each other doesn't really change the calculus at all. On the other end, home invasions run bad odds of running into a family with a shotgun. Same applies to muggings, esp in the CCW states.

The murder rate is still going to be on the high end, but when you remove the felons offing each other (net gain for the public!), that 34:1 drops down substantially.

[jakee 1,257]

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Talking gun control with the forum's regular hoplophiles is like banging your head against a brick wall, they will not change their opinion, and neither will we.

Hoplophiles, they love beer?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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I cant believe you mean you would rather face someone with a machine gun than a knife?!

I didn't say that. Are you sure you're english!?

At close range, both situations suck, esp if (and I am) legally precluded from having any means of defense other than running.

I'm trying to explain to you that long range accuracy with guns is a skill that has to be acquired. And by long range I mean 50ft with a pistol. It doesn't come by merely picking up the weapon. Automatics certainly give you the big gun feeling, but most of the longer range accuracy would come from firing it as a rifle, one shot at a time. If you spray, you'll hit a lot of things, but not great odds of hitting your target.

[bigway 4]

Peaceful-jeffery is going to go to town with what i said to him.
i think this time though his post might actually take up a whole page. Will this be a first?
I am not a big fan of the english pub culture as i feel alot of life runs around a pub, but what i am a big fan of is that this country is very safe in general. I got mugged at a bank machine close to this backpackers hostel i was staying at. It was in russell square, yes a very bad place to be at 3 in the morning. i was only in the country 4 days when this happened. This huge black fella stood behind me as i was taking money out. I tried to take more out thatn i knew i had though because i could not get a balance from my new zealand card. It declined, so i turned around and said to this guy, do you want to try first, he said no i am with him, dont know where he was pointing. So i took some money out and it gave me my card first and then counted the money and was about to spit it out when this guy pushes me aside and stands in front of the machine and waits for the money waving his hands in the air and yelling at me. i am standing there and honestly thinking ' this is how someone is going to mug me?' what a joke. No weapons at all. none i could see. So i went to town on him, first tried to push him out of the way to get my cash and got my cash, he then tried to take it from me again and we kicked off, brilliant punch up for just arriving in the country but the police were their before this guy had a chance to hurt me too much.

Moral of the story, someone in the worst part of london tried to rob me without any weapons, we had a scrap and police were there in minutes because of cctv cameras.

Did not need a gun or a knife, did not want a gun and never wished i had one.
PJ needs to grow some balls and stop hiding behind his gun.
Ask your father to give you some boxing lessons.
you are a man, only cowards hide behind guns!!
with alot of these comments you PJ have said i can not understand what sort of fucked up government would let you own a gun!!

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