emails from soldiers on the front line

[Newbie 0]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1319718,00.html

I hope these are fake, because if they are real, i feel for these guys, what they have gone through and what they are going through

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[BIGUN 1,100]

Sorry, but there are always going to be friggin snivelrs. When you put on the pickle suit you take an oath. You know that prior to putting up your hand and taking that oath. It's an all-volunteer army. It's been that way since about 1973. If you cannot do the job, then don't raise your hand. You don't have to agree, disagree or even undertstand.

There are so many men and women doing an outstanding job over there. Reading the snivels of a few who would place more energy with their fingers to keyboard to write Mr. Moore are probably ones I wouldn't have wanted to serve with anyway.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Newbie 0]

perhaps, but that one LCpl in the Marine Corps, Sean Huze, doesn't sound like a whining, snivelling pussy to me. It just sounds like he has been put in a couple of pretty messed up situations (as have the others in those emails) and he has questioned why.
Why does that make him a bad soldier/one you wouldn't want to serve with?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Military service, particularly combat arms, front line military service is not supposed to be easy. If you signed up to be combat arms, then you had better be prepared to rain death and destruction (and deal with seeing the damage you have done or has been done to you) from the moment you sign that contract or volunteer for that type of assignment. Such is life in wartime....period. If it's not for you, then you better put in your 4187 for termination/reassignment. I won't listen to any whining from people who volunteered for military service. The military is NOT the "gravy train."

Likewise, I am most disturbed by the incessant whining from Rear Echelon MotherFuckers who object to being sent forward, even in their candy-assed support roles. Holy shit! You mean you are gonna cry because the locals "don't like you?" Shut the fuck up and eat your hot, contractor-prepared chow while the MEN take care of business and maybe change uniforms ONCE A MONTH. Once again, if you don't want to deal with the rigors of basic military life, much less WAR, then don't volunteer. Nobody wants to hear your shit.

edited to add:

Chuck Blue SFC (ret)
18F4LW9QB

[markd_nscr986 0]

If you want the real deal,pm me,my brother is a corpsman in the 1st Marine Division/23rd regiment,I can forward emails that I get from him or you can email him yourself!

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[Newbie 0]

i could be totally wrong (i'm really just trying to understand what these guys are going through), but i feel what these email comments are more about is the fact they are doing/seeing what you have described i.e. the realities of war, but rather than having their reasoning for going through this stuff validated (i.e. for freedom of Iraqi peoples/hunting for terrorist factions/searching for WMD etc, whatever it may have been their reasoning for being there), they feel that they are there to fight a war that has no validity in their minds anymore and that the death and suffering is more about a personal vendetta/profit motive than anything - hence the issues of contractors on the one hand, and ill equipped troops on the other.

I don't know if all wars are like that - where you get troops thinking like that - i would have no clue, but i imagine they will all have elements of people who question the validity of why they are there.
I guess it depends on your point of view as to whether you label them as incessant whiners who need to stfu and get on with what they are meant to be doing there, no personal thoughts should come into it; or, those who look at the bigger picture and try to evaluate their actions in terms of the moral impact it's having on those around them, and whether going to war is actually achieving what they personally thought they were fighting for initially? I really don't know the answers.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[jkm2500 0]

Amen Brother,

When I was in Samarra, Iraq. I did not get contractor prepared meals, I did not sleep in the palace, I did not get any of those things. I did however make friends with several of the Iraqis that the unit employed as contractors. I have heard and seen all the good that has happened over there. But, then again I also knew what to expect when before I ever crossed the border.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[wmw999 2,167]

I have a feeling there's always been whining about military life -- it's not easy. Before, you couldn't whine to your buddy because he we was right there with you -- that changes the kind of griping you can do.

But now we have the internet... And every day here on SC we have proof of what the internet, with its easy access to thousands, or millions, of people can do to the filter that should be between your brain and your tongue/fingers

I'm sure there are a lot more guys who think some of these things, and just don't say them. And that's the way it should be -- there are lots of things that I think for awhile and then don't say. I hope the same's true of most folks.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[juanesky 0]

If you really want to find the answers then sign up and do a tour. As a soldier you are expected to follow lawful orders without question, and get training to accomplish the mission in the type of operations expected by your unit.

Those enlisted men who are trying to get the better picture are just jeopardizing the team effort of everyone else in their unit, they are not expected nor wanted to get any BIG picture at all, only "as needed" basis only. They are bad for morale. It is annoying to listen someone complain all the time about the food, etc when you are on the field. It affects unit performance and that can be really dangerous for those involved.

Kudos to skyone, agreed they should stfu.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[JohnnyD 0]

I don't know what SOP is now, but in GW1 the first rule was to keep your mouth shut. It was clear to us that talking to anyone about anything would bring swift and severe consequences, and it did. Sometimes official and sometines out back. Regardless of what you think or feel you still have a job to do and an ass to not get shot off. You STFU while you are active and once you are released you are free to STFU.

Kids these days.

[pajarito 0]

Right on brother!!!

There's no crying in the Army!
There's no CRYING...in the ARMY!

STFU, move out, and draw fire.

[Nightingale 0]

I've gotten similar letters from friends who are serving over in Iraq. If the emails aren't real, there's most probably hundreds more like them that are real.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

more about is the fact they are doing/seeing what you have described i.e. the realities of war, but rather than having their reasoning for going through this stuff validated (i.e. for freedom of Iraqi peoples/hunting for terrorist factions/searching for WMD etc, whatever it may have been their reasoning for being there), they feel that they are there to fight a war that has no validity in their minds anymore and that the death and suffering is more about a personal vendetta/profit motive than anything

Just had someone walk out of my office about 30 minutes ago. He just finished his four years in the Army and just got back 3 weeks ago from spending 8 months in Iraq driving transports around. He said seeing an IED blow up near him was a daily event. He was used to bad conditions because of the time he spent in Kosovo. He said Iraq was nothing compared to that and he said any belief of a "green zone" is bullshit. He said it is very obvious that the people over there no longer want American troops around. On top of that he said that he and his fellow troops were saying just what Newbie said above....they felt the war was totall BS. He didn't mind being away from home for the last four holidays or anything like that, or being confined to a base in Kosovo for a while....but that no one really understands what is happening over there....and that everyone that he was with is voting for Kerry because of that.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[StevePhelps 0]

Sounds like some signed up for the GI bill and never imagined they may have to be a soldier.

whiners! Man, the Army has changed a lot since way back when!!!

Just imagine the emails the greatest generation could have written as they landed on Normandy!
Nah, I doubt they would have done the same.

/griping and being an old fart

[billvon 2,466]

>Man, the Army has changed a lot since way back when!!!

From an allied soldier in the Great War (known as World War 1 nowadays:)
-------------------------------------------
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
-------------------------------------

I think things stay the same far more than they change.

[LouDiamond 1]

First off, those e-mails are excerpts from Moore's piece. What did you expect from the left? It's status quo. Second, I hear a lot of whinning from what sounds like people who joined the military looking for a free ride and didn't take the oath seriously. They are now complaining because they are having to do what they signed up for? How anyone can sign up for any branch of the military and think that their job doesn't involve the possibility of being in a combat zone or having to live in substandard conditions is a fucking idiot with their head in the sand. Joe's will always bitch, if they aren't then something is really wrong but I would bet a dollar to a dime that those same snivellers will be the first ones talking shit and hanging out telling war stories at the VFW about how they were in the war when they get home. You don't have to agree with the reason why we as a nation are involved with any conflict. No where in your contract does it say that only if you agree with the reasons you will go. You signed the dotted line, you bought the ticket, your going for the full ride like it or not. If you don't like it, get the fuck out, until then suck it up like everyone else.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[PhillyKev 0]

Pretty harsh. Seems to me like they ARE doing their duty since they're there. They are not deserters, they just happen to not like the situation they're in.

Love how you guys always get riled up about people criticising the policies and trying to twist it around to say we're disrespecting the troops. Meanwhile all the attacks on these people who are in service and in Iraq and serving their country just because they're expressing their opinions. How hypocritical.

Let me see if I have the rules straight.

If you aren't a vet, then criticising the war disrespects the troops.

If you are a vet but aren't currently in service then criticising the war disrespects the troops.

If you are a vet but didn't serve in combat, then criticising the war disrespectst the troops.

Criticising and caling the troops names like whiner and pussy for doing their duty while voicing disagreement with policies is fine.

[n2skdvn 0]

You said it chuck.(thumbs up)

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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Criticising and caling the troops names like whiner and pussy for doing their duty while voicing disagreement with policies is fine

No, that's not the point at all, Kev. The point I and others (career active and retired) are making is that voicing dissent in the field only breeds contempt and is incredibly bad for discipline, morale and esprit de corps. Most of the people who write crap like that back home to newspapers and the like will gleefully complain the same way in real life. It's those people who make it so hard for others to do their job. I would not hesitate to drag someone out behind the teamroom and put the smackdown on them under those circumstances. The last thing a combat leader needs in time of war is dissent in the ranks and even mutiny (it happens). If you don't want to be there, then DON'T SIGN UP!

War is hell and the "gravytrain" days are GONE.

[Newbie 0]

I didn't mean to imply the war was BS - i really am unsure about the war to cast a definitive say one way or the other, i guess only time will tell.

I was just interested in trying to understand what it's really like from people there. But yes, i agree, any source, whether from the primary source or not, is going to be skewed somewhat from the persons day to day character and i'm not doubting that, i just was trying to learn more about what it's really like there. I guess the only true way to do that is to census every single serving member, and that's just not going to happen ever. Whether they are classed as whiners or people giving us essential insight is to me besides the point - they are still doing something that is very hard and i certainly don't think i could do and for that much i'm thankful.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[billvon 2,466]

>The point I and others (career active and retired) are making is that
> voicing dissent in the field only breeds contempt and is incredibly bad for
> discipline, morale and esprit de corps. Most of the people who write crap
> like that back home to newspapers and the like will gleefully complain the
> same way in real life. It's those people who make it so hard for others to
> do their job.

I know several people from the local area who feel that way about the war and are serving in Iraq (or are in the rotation to go back there.) They do their jobs, and from what I can see from 6000 miles away, do them well. I think they have as much of a right as anyone else to say what they want to their families and friends in their email. In many ways, they have a greater right than most - it is their efforts that allow the rest of us to have the freedom to bitch, even if they disagree with what's going on.

There are people out there who disagree with the war and yet serve their country in the military, because they feel they have an obligation to do so. I have a great deal of respect for these people, and I am glad they have decided to serve - and I welcome their opinions on what they are doing.

[JohnnyD 0]

Quote

I know several people from the local area who feel that way about the war and are serving in Iraq (or are in the rotation to go back there.) They do their jobs, and from what I can see from 6000 miles away, do them well. I think they have as much of a right as anyone else to say what they want to their families and friends in their email. In many ways, they have a greater right than most - it is their efforts that allow the rest of us to have the freedom to bitch, even if they disagree with what's going on.

Of course they do. I'm sure many people there disagree with or are uncertain of the reasons they are there. Behind closed doors to trusted family and friends, it is theraputic to vent your frustrations, concerns and fears. However, when your emails are addressed Dear Mr. Moore, there is nothing productive that can be said afterwards.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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They are now complaining because they are having to do what they signed up for? How anyone can sign up for any branch of the military and think that their job doesn't involve the possibility of being in a combat zone or having to live in substandard conditions is a fucking idiot with their head in the sand.

Recruiters, PR, commercials, PR Teams like the GKs, etc. When they are out there pressing the flesh and getting warm bodies into service they don't sell up the horror of war, just all that they will benefit from. I've heard first hand what the recruiters say - and if I made such huge promises in my job as a salesman/recruiter I would have lost my job ages ago. Eighteen year old kids that are oblivious to the world situation that spent all of high school boozing it up with the plan that a tour in the military will make things allright seem to be the types signing up these days. Also, I've never seen a recruiting station in a good neighborhood - but I can walk a few blocks over to the projects and there are two recruiting stations there....and out in the suburban slums SW of the city there is half a strip mall lined up with recruiting stations. If you have lived your entire life wondering if you have a home or food to go home to then the salesman at the recruiting station sounds like the perfect escape.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

I know several people from the local area who feel that way about the war and are serving in Iraq (or are in the rotation to go back there.) They do their jobs, and from what I can see from 6000 miles away, do them well. I think they have as much of a right as anyone else to say what they want to their families and friends in their email. In many ways, they have a greater right than most - it is their efforts that allow the rest of us to have the freedom to bitch, even if they disagree with what's going on.

Of course they do. I'm sure many people there disagree with or are uncertain of the reasons they are there. Behind closed doors to trusted family and friends, it is theraputic to vent your frustrations, concerns and fears. However, when your emails are addressed Dear Mr. Moore, there is nothing productive that can be said afterwards.

You are both balls on accurate.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Of course they do. I'm sure many people there disagree with or are uncertain of the reasons they are there. Behind closed doors to trusted family and friends, it is theraputic to vent your frustrations, concerns and fears. However, when your emails are addressed Dear Mr. Moore, there is nothing productive that can be said afterwards.

Some of the biggest changes in the world have come from just a single voice. Never, in any circumstance should that be overlooked.

Maybe some changes need to be made. Maybe next time the fat cats will have to think twice before sending off everyone's children to die in a situation they wouldn't send their own into.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....