Another Kalifornia Gun Ban

[Clownburner 0]

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But your Dems did it, just like the Repubs did, and yet the liberals here keep castigating the Repubs for the Patriot Act almost exclusively,

Please stop calling them 'my' democrats. I'm not a democrat, and have never voted for a democrat. I'm a libertarian and think both parties should be abolished, but hey that's just my opinion.

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and implying directly that "If you want Patriot II, vote for the Republicans," as though the Democrats are the only ones who have awakened from the dangerous stupor of voting for this kind of thing. How do you know that Republicans in Congress will not also vote against an updated version?

Let me tell you why I think the republicans would vote for another piece of trash like PATRIOT? Um, because they have.

S.2476, to repeal the sunset of the PATRIOT act (making it permanent) had 9 cosponsors: 8 republicans and a democrat from Georgia (republicrat?).

HR3171, to provide a legislative review of anti-terrorism legislation to insure civil liberties, had 30 sponsors: 29 democrats and a republican.

As much as I hate to say it, the democrats are a lot stronger on civil liberties than the republicans. And civil liberties are the most important thing we have.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Zenister 0]

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Please stop calling them 'my' democrats. I'm not a democrat, and have never voted for a democrat. I'm a libertarian and think both parties should be abolished, but hey that's just my opinion.

you forget, for republicans, everyone who isnt for them and everything they support is a liberal, commie loving democrat...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Please stop calling them 'my' democrats. I'm not a democrat, and have never voted for a democrat. I'm a libertarian and think both parties should be abolished, but hey that's just my opinion.

you forget, for republicans, everyone who isnt for them and everything they support is a liberal, commie loving democrat...

Shit, you just cost me fifty bucks.
I had bet you'd be the last one to figure that out.


-Jeffrey
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Zenister 0]

betting against me is a baaaaad idea...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Jimbo 0]

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I'm a libertarian and think both parties should be abolished, but hey that's just my opinion.

That doesn't sound like a very libertarian thing to say.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Ron 7]

Anyone else find this funny:

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It is ironic that a man who personally owns an M48 tank feels that the citizens under his rule cannot be trusted with a target rifle

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Clownburner 0]

How do you figure? The two-party system has caused our country quite a bit of pain and suffering, and has reduced our democracy to the 'pick the lesser evil' corporate oligarchy we have now.

Abolishing the party system would do a lot to restore representative democracy. That's a pretty libertarian goal, I think.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Jimbo 0]

I read that as "We should abolish the Democratic and Republican parties", making way for only the Libertarian party.

The two party system is our own creation, and we have the power to eliminate it. Vote.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Kennedy 0]

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all of which STILL makes him a republican no matter how much you wish to deny it....

Dixieland Democrats and North Eastern Republicans are just proof that membership in a party has nothing to do with actually believing in that party.

Arnlod is like a Republican from NJ. Their name says (R), but their votes say (D). Two parties - two sides - one coin - no cash value.

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Can we at least all agree that the ban was absolutely idiotic?
(except for Arnold because it will help his re-election)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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Abolishing the party system would do a lot to restore representative democracy. That's a pretty libertarian goal, I think.

I have to go with Jimbo on this one.

Advocating that poeple abandon the Rs and Ds is a libertarian thing to do. Advocating that the parties be made illegal is about as far from libertarian as you can get.

Libertarians HATE the idea outlawing things because they are dangerous/detrimental. The party platform wants to give people the choice, even if it equates to giving the public enought rope to hang itself.

According to your logic, Rs and Ds could both advocate abolishing the Libertarians because they are a threat to national security, the war on crime, etc etc etc.

Don't outlaw it, educate people out of it.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Well, Schwarz isn't a complete idiot when it comes to guns:

"Although we scolded Gov. Schwarzenegger recently for signing into law a ridiculous ban on .50-caliber sporting rifles, we can honestly say he has used far better judgment in vetoing SB1140 and SB1152," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. "The more insidious of these was SB1152, which would have required registration of ammunition purchases, including the taking of a buyer's fingerprint. We're delighted that the governor responded to calls from gun owners statewide and nixed this extremist legislation. Gun owners should not be treated like criminals simply for making retail purchases of ammunition.

"Meanwhile," Gottlieb continued, "we're also delighted that the governor signed AB2431, which will streamline the mechanism for returning firearms to their rightful owners. The current system can be complicated and costly, and this revision will help law-abiding gun owners retrieve their property."

Source: U.S. Newswire

In a move to pull the entertainment industry back into California, the governor signed two bills that will soften the rules for movie-makers to get permits for guns and pyrotechnics. A bill signed Monday will differentiate theatrical firearms from general firearms, lowering the cost of permits and shielding the entertainment industry from federal restrictions written for general firearms.

Source: The Signal

[Paulipod 0]

Have to confess it does amaze me slightly in the US national fascination with owning guns....

In a country with more gun retailer outlets than Mcdonalds, and more people killed each year than in the twin towers, how big a hole do you need to make in a target for sport

For most 200 year old bills/laws a re-write would normally be considered overdue, but for some reason the right to bear arms is a gospel

Suppose I would need to have been raised in a different culture to understand

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Douva 0]

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In a country with more gun retailer outlets than Mcdonalds....

Name your source.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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In a country with more gun retailer outlets than Mcdonalds....

Name your source.

I decided to look it up myself. This false statistic is derived from the number of licensed gun dealers in the U.S., not the number of "gun retailer outlets." Just because someone has obtained a license to sell firearms, that doesn't mean they operate a "retail outlet" or even sell guns on a regular basis. Until recently, when the government started cracking down, obtaining an FFL was a popular way for people without criminal backgrounds to buy guns at wholesale prices. A quick search of the listings in Austin, Texas (a fairly gun friendly/health conscious city) shows almost twice as many McDonalds restaurants as gun shops. If you really stand by your stated statistic, do the research and name for me five US cities with populations over 500,000 that have more gun shops (actual retail storefronts dedicated to selling firearms) than McDonalds restaurants.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[JohnRich 4]

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I decided to look it up myself. This false statistic is derived from the number of licensed gun dealers in the U.S., not the number of "gun retailer outlets." Just because someone has obtained a license to sell firearms, that doesn't mean they operate a "retail outlet" or even sell guns on a regular basis.

Thanks for jumping on that one and getting the facts out.

Clinton tightened up the licensing of gun dealers, and reduced their numbers by about half or two-thirds, as I recall. Just because he could. There wasn't a problem with those gun dealers, he just thought that there were "too many". Most were guys that just held the license so that they could buy guns at wholesale prices for their gun club members and friends. They sold very few guns per year, but in the typical gun-grabbing fashion, they were demonized as "kitchen table" dealers, and the campaign went out and made them sound like bad guys. They complied with the law just as much as gun dealers with store fronts. There was nothing evil about them, except to Clinton and his gun-grabbing cronies.

[JohnRich 4]

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how big a hole do you need to make in a target for sport

The law limits the maximum caliber for ownership of modern arms by civilians to .50 caliber.

The 2nd Amendment is not about sport target shooting.

[goalie35 0]

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For most 200 year old bills/laws a re-write would normally be considered overdue, but for some reason the right to bear arms is a gospel

Suppose I would need to have been raised in a different culture to understand

Too true, that. You would have to have been raised in a culture that specifically rejected the idea that a person is merely one cog in the wheel of State, another small cell of the body politic, useless and meaningless of itself. Subject (in all meanings of the word) to the whim of royalty or government.

On the other hand, if you had been raised where a person is a value in and for himself, you might be more receptive to the idea of personal freedom, and the means for individuals to protect that freedom.

Please be patient...most of this nation is desperately trying to catch up to you. Only a few still cling to that outdated individualism...

[JohnMitchell 14]

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For most 200 year old bills/laws a re-write would normally be considered overdue, but for some reason the right to bear arms is a gospel

Suppose I would need to have been raised in a different culture to understand

Maybe it's time to get rid of our free speach, freedom of religion, and all the other freedoms that have been a beacon to so much of the rest of the world for so long. And please remember, if it wasn't for American guns and the people that use them, you'd still be needing a Nazi visa to cross the English Channel.

[JohnRich 4]

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For most 200 year old bills/laws a re-write would normally be considered overdue...

The principals of freedom are timeless.
They do not expire, nor need changing.

[Kennedy 0]

Come on John, maybe we should review murder. Afterall, it's been a crime so long, we just need to decriminalize it, and the problems will all go away. (except gun violence, that needs "re-education" camps)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Paulipod 0]

Ahh, I do love the American, 'Freedom Freedom' cry..

I agree in the principles of freedoms, however you have to protect the freedom of everyone... where do you draw the line? Should I be free to buy a nuclear weapon? (you get the point)

Forget the statistics per say, I was trying to emphasise that more people die in your country than any other as a result of this freedom. And I would have to say that those dead people would dis-agree with the fact that their liberty is intact.

I would suggest if I was an American citizen I would like the right not to be shot.... which, lets face it is alot more likely for you guys than it is for most other countries (barring Iraq maybe at present!)

Dont get me wrong, there are many many things I love about time I spend in the US, the danger some weirdo has the right to hold a lethal weapon at will is probably the wackiest idea I think though....

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[PhillyKev 0]

Without going into the endless diatribe of repetetive arguments, ask yourself a few things, and actually look for the answers.

Is the violence due to guns, or is there another cause for the violence and gun violence is just a symptom of that?

Are guns the only lethal weapons known to man, or could they easily be replaced with knives, bats, and bricks?

Is it better to expend resources on determining the true cause of a problem and fixing it, or chasing your tail trying to outlaw one symptom of a problem only to have it replaced by another?

[Paulipod 0]

[Paulipod 0]

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Are guns the only lethal weapons known to man, or could they easily be replaced with knives, bats, and bricks?

This is a common response... and given the choice... I'll take a beating with a bat.. a knive wound or a brick over a gunshot anyday!

How can you miss my point? I dont think for a moment people in my country for example are less violent.... they just do less damage when they are!

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[kallend 1,623]

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if it wasn't for American guns and the people that use them, you'd still be needing a Nazi visa to cross the English Channel.

Funny, There were only 10 US pilots participating in the Battle of Britain, and both Hurricanes and Spitfires were made in Britain with British guns. After 15th September 1940 the Nazis abandoned all plans for an invasion of Britain. That's 15 months BEFORE Germany declared war on the USA.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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