DrunkMonkey 0 #1 May 3, 2004 Hey all. Before the Libs make it illegal, I'm gonna exercise my 2nd Amendment rights. I'm gonna get me a rifle and a pistol. Rifle--I see reconditioned surplus M-1 Garands for sale. That or a 30-06? Pistol-- I shoot the Beretta M-9 at work, (once annually) should I look into a civilian M-9? That or a Glock .40. What do y'all recommend? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 May 3, 2004 I like my Glock .40 model 22. It is the full size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wzettler 0 #3 May 3, 2004 How about the Desert Eagle .50 I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 May 3, 2004 QuoteBefore the Libs make it illegal, I'm gonna exercise my 2nd Amendment rights. I'm gonna get me a rifle and a pistol. Rifle--I see reconditioned surplus M-1 Garands for sale. That or a 30-06? Pistol-- I shoot the Beretta M-9 at work, (once annually) should I look into a civilian M-9? That or a Glock .40. What do y'all recommend? Congrats! I recommend joining the NRA after you make your purchases, to help you keep those guns. The M1 Garand is .30-06. They are fine rifles, and a nice piece of history. But not tack-driving accurate. The average Garand will shoot about 4" groups at 100 yards. Ammo is plentiful and fairly cheap. You might look into the CMP rifle sales program for a true army surplus Garand, rather than a civilian rebuild. Clicky Handgun preference is a matter of personal choice. I prefer .45 pistols, 1911 models. But everyone has a different opinions on what is best. The high-capacity handgun ban will probably expire in September. So I suggest not getting locked-into a 9mm handgun that is limited to only 10 rounds. We will soon be able to buy handguns once again, that hold more than that. Make sure the magazines can be replaced with high-capacity magazines when that date comes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 May 3, 2004 The Beretta M-9 is a full on POS, you don't want to use it if your life truely depends on it. I've seen more jams and malfunctions out of Berettas then just about any other weapon out there (save the low end Rugers). I've put over 14,000rds through my Glock 17 (9mm) and only once has it done anything other then shoot accurately, once and only once, it stovepiped. If that's not reliable, then I don't know what is! .40 is a great defense load, very powerful and versital, plinking ammo isn't too expensive either. Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. If you want to spend some money, get a higher end Kimber or a Wilson Combat. If you can, get to a range that has rental weapons and try them out. If you don't have that, get to a gun shop and atleast put each one of the weapons in your hands, see how it feels. For instance, I personally don't like Sigs since they don't fit in my hand very well. My Glocks do, Kimbers and H&Ks do as well. If you can't hold the weapon correctly, then you can't fire correctly.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #6 May 3, 2004 Congratulations on your new hobby. Buy a .22 caliber handgun or rifle for fun shooting,"plinking", and good, cheap practice, too. The .22 cal firearms are under $200 and the ammo is less than 2 cents a round. Is this a great country or what? My fav handgun is my Sig in .40S&W, but check out the new Springfield HD in .40 S&W. It has a lot of great features, a good trigger, and is lightweight and reasonably priced. I think I'd get one if I was buying today. Find a shop with a range and an easy rental policy, and try a bunch before you buy. My wife shoots Glocks and I can't stand 'em, but others love them, so enjoy shopping around. And John Rich is right. Join the NRA so we can all keep our guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #7 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe Beretta M-9 is a full on POS, you don't want to use it if your life truely depends on it. I've seen more jams and malfunctions out of Berettas then just about any other weapon out there (save the low end Rugers). I've put over 14,000rds through my Glock 17 (9mm) and only once has it done anything other then shoot accurately, once and only once, it stovepiped. If that's not reliable, then I don't know what is! OMG! I have a Glock 27 -- haven't put nearly that many rounds through it -- but I also have had exactly one stovepipe and no other malfunctions whatsoever. I love the .40. I bought my first .40 back in 1993. It was my first gun, and since I knew very little at all about handguns at the time, I let the dealer sell me something based on his recommendation. (I probably would have gone with 9mm if not for him.) He explained the pluses and minuses of having a larger round (slightly lower capacity than a 9mm gun) but better ballistics (.40 over 9mm). I'm glad he steered me that way. I sure am hoping that the ammunition capacity limit expires as it should in September. Just to kick the gun banners' intentions in the balls, I plan to buy at least 5-10 high capacity mags for my various guns. Quote.40 is a great defense load, very powerful and versital, plinking ammo isn't too expensive either. Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. I favor Glock & HK (which stands for Heckler & Koch, and since it's German, they say it "COKE.") Glocks may not be the most recommendable guns for someone new to them, though it pains me to say that. I guess it shouldn't be that way, because technically one should not be relying on mechanical safeties to save the day in the first place. If you get a Glock, make sure to have someone get you reallly familiar with how it will operate, particularly the fact that there is no manual safety, so it operates almost like a revolver. Good luck. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #8 May 3, 2004 Congrats!!Beretta or Glock?personally I dont care for either....Just find something that 1)fits your hand 2)fits your budget 3)is fairly easy to maintain and clean 4)ammo can be readily found 5)recoil you can live with.....I shoot a Kimber gold match .45 and whenI want to plink....I drop in the .22 conversion for it! same for the AR.Great for training too......gets people used to handling firearms without being scared to death of the recoil noise etc. EnjoyMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #9 May 3, 2004 9mm is a little cheaper and less recoil than .40. I'd recommend that for a first. Love my Glock 17...miss it. One thing not to buy into is a compensated barrel. Some people, particularly salesmen, try to push them to newer shooters saying that the reduced recoil is beneficial. But, if you ever do need to use it in a defense situation there are lots of negatives. If you don't have your arms fully extended, like if you're struggling with someone, you could burn yourself. Also, the muzzle flash is much more exposed and it will kill night vision with the first shot. Depending on your range that could be a problem too, if it's a low light range, like mine. Many people also encourage wheel guns for beginners. I don't think that should be a blanket recommendation. Revolvers and pistols both have their advantages/disadvantages including how the apply to new shooters. Weigh those and make your decision. Another great thing about Glock is the GSSF (Glock sport shooting foundation). It's a grass roots cometition circuit for Glocks only. It's great for new shooters, there aren't any draw from holster or running around with a loaded gun activities. It's all from the ready position. And they give away a LOT of free Glocks. Not just to the top guys, either. They handicap everyone. One more thing, as far as night sites go. Many people swear by them and say it's ridiculous not to have them on a defense gun. I don't agree. I bought into that at one time. But after I got better, and moved on from site alignment to point and shoot defense practice, I don't see the sites at all. Get good sites for when you're trying to drill holes in a round target and work on your trigger control. But they don't need to glow in the dark. When it comes to double taps on a sillouhette, you'll never use the sites anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #10 May 3, 2004 Oh yeah...and here's a great site with tons of info. http://www.glockfaq.com/ In particular, this part, is invaluable. Reading this and applying what you learn will do more for you than putting 10k rounds down range without knowing these tips. http://www.glockfaq.com/trigger.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #11 May 3, 2004 The last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. Kind of on the heavy side. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. I've always loved bolt action rifles myself. They may not have the fire power of an automatic, but usually they are a lot more accurate. I've always been partial to Remington 700's. I've heard they are about the most accurate (out of the box) rifle you can buy. Then if you fine tune it with the right reloads, glass bed the action, float the barrel, and work on the trigger, you can end up with super-accuracy. And put a quality scope on it. I've got a few Remingtons that will group close to 1/2 inch at 100 yds. with the right reloads. But then again I wouldn't mind having a Garand. I liked shooting them a lot.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #12 May 3, 2004 Quote Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. If you want to spend some money, get a higher end Kimber or a Wilson Combat. If you can, get to a range that has rental weapons and try them out. If you don't have that, get to a gun shop and atleast put each one of the weapons in your hands, see how it feels. For instance, I personally don't like Sigs since they don't fit in my hand very well. My Glocks do, Kimbers and H&Ks do as well. If you can't hold the weapon correctly, then you can't fire correctly. I really liked the G17 that a buddy had until I got used to my S226 (and 229). Seems to be an either/or deal for personal preferences. Sadly, the price, at least in CA, has gotten terrible on the Sigs. 800-900 before all the junk taxes are added. The supply of police refurbs H&K P7s seems long gone, but it was a steal at $699 a few years back. I also like the USP compact, have a 45 that works quite well once you adjust to the much greater recoil. 9mm ammo is so much cheaper, there's a lot said to get one in that, or to get a good .22 pistol to make range time more affordable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #13 May 3, 2004 QuoteI also have had exactly one stovepipe and no other malfunctions whatsoever. Since I'm already taking a lot of gun photos today, I might as well do another one, to show the other readers here what a "stovepipe" malfunction is. This is caused by the slide cycling and catching the spent cartridge casing from the previously fired round before it is kicked out through the ejection port. The result looks like a stovepipe sticking out of the gun. The next round fails to chamber. Clearance action is; pulling the slide back, while tilting the gun to the right, to allow the casing to fall free, then releasing the slide again to chamber the next round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. Yes, there are a lot of tricks you can do to a Garand to make it more accurate, as well as gunsmiths who will do it for you. Glass bedding, trigger stoning, peening the splines on the gas piston tube, and so on. As well as finding the right ammo for it. Standard military surplus M2 Ball works well, but M72 match ammo is even better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #15 May 4, 2004 First, congratulations on your decision. Second, for the rifle, well that is just too much to offer suggestions without a long conversation first. For the handgun, Glocks, HKs, Sigs, and Kimbers are all fine firearms. There are other high quality models out there, but they top the list. Para-Ordinance is also making a huge name for themselves. Try out the LDA: "light double action" in their pistols (higher capacity coming soon ). I know a few who swear by their Browning High Powers. I find the grip uncomfortable and the trigger atrocious, but the point is wrap your hands around as many as possible, for as much use as possible. If you consider a revoler, Taurus, S&W, and Sturm Ruger are tops in the industry. (my next purchase will likely be a Taurus 650SS (a 5 round .357 revolver, seen here) Remember, the AWB sunsets in 131 days. That means more for .40s and 9mms. (the shorter brass makes higher capacity easier) It means significantly less for .45s. A good place to start looking for more options Now This Was FUN! What Gun Are YOU?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 May 4, 2004 Well... some months ago I purchased a brand new Taurus .22 "Tracker" at a gun show. I fired it at the range twice, maybe three times, each time firing about one box of 550 rounds. Each firing session, I had occasionally noticed a stinging sensation in my left hand, which I mostly dismissed. I knew that gases escape the gap between cylinder and barrel on a revolver. When I mentioned this to the man behind the counter at the Delray Shooting Center (I think his name was Joe), he examined the gun and said, "This gun has problems." It seems that the cylinder lockup was not nearly as tight as he said it should be; in addition, with the trigger pulled fully rearward, on certain chambers the cylinder could be made to rotate without much force applied (this should not be able to happen at all). The stinging I had felt was excess gas and some lead being blown out the side when the chamber/barrel alignment was not adequately accurate. Fortunately, Taurus includes a lifetime warranty. I have delayed sending the gun back to them for service because I intend to find out about simply driving down to their U.S. headquarters in Miami (only about an hour or so away) to drop it off, rather than ship it there. Might as well see about having a tour of the place if I can. The gun feels great, and actually is very accurate. (Easy to be accurate with the light recoil of a .22 in a gun whose mass is about that of a .357, with a six inch barrel!) I'm very fond of the gun; I just want it to work right. I don't know if Taurus' other products are prone to similar problems. Until I see how well they remedy this one, I can't in good conscience yet recommend them with whole heart. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #17 May 4, 2004 I sure like my Glock model 36 .45. It's small and compact for a .45. Met a DEA guy one time who said he took 7 bullets in a drug bust gone- bad down in Mexico. He said it was the one slug from a .45 that knocked him down.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallRate 0 #18 May 4, 2004 Why was a DEA agent working a bust in Mexico? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #19 May 4, 2004 QuoteI recommend joining the NRA after you make your purchases, to help you keep those guns. Quote Good advice! I'm a life member too. Quote The M1 Garand is .30-06. They are fine rifles, and a nice piece of history. But not tack-driving accurate. The average Garand will shoot about 4" groups at 100 yards. Ammo is plentiful and fairly cheap. You might look into the CMP rifle sales program for a true army surplus Garand, rather than a civilian rebuild. I have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I also picked up an 'excellent' sniper model at a local gun show last year for a little over 600.00. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 May 4, 2004 Quote I sure like my Glock model 36 I had one, it was nice, I could conceal it just about anywhere on my body without having to really dress around it. The problem was, even with a grip extender, I could only get 2 fingers on it, I just flat out couldn't hold the damn thing, it was too small. So I would double tap and I couldn't put on in the head since the weapon had pulled its self far enough out of my grip. Thus it was an unsafe gun for me, I gave it to my dad.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #21 May 4, 2004 He was working a joint undercover operation south of the border. Some of the people that shot him were in fact local law officers.QuoteDo your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #22 May 4, 2004 I have little hands, and I just love .45's. Someone once told me never take a pistol to a gunfight that doesn't start with the number 4.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #23 May 4, 2004 You;ve heard "never take a knife to a gun fight,," right? Well, I say never take less than twice what you think you'll need. Someone recently asked my uncle what his favorite weapon was. (I suppose they wanted his opinion because he is miltary) His response? "My favorite weapon is a company of Marines." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 May 4, 2004 QuoteI have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I can tell you haven't seen the new CMP (former DCM) lately. The prices are up to $400.00 and more. You can now choose which manufacturer you want, as well as the condition, rather than it being pot luck. They are priced accordingly, with the more rare varieties, like Winchester and International Harvestor, costing more than the run of the mill Springfields. You don't really have to belong to a "shooting club", but do need to be a member of a state rifle association. Even if you have to join, the rifles are still a bargain price. The Texas State Rifle Association is only $20 per year, and the CMP sells their surplus Garands at several hundred dollars under the usual retail price. So it's well worth a one-year membership to get in on the deal. They'll waive the "competition" requirement if you are a current or former military member, and for several other exceptions. There are clubs all around the country that have matches at which the public is welcome, to meet this qualification. It's not really "competition", but rather just participation in a formally run match. Scores don't count. Just knowing how to shoot safely does. Oh, and they used to limit you to just one rifle purchase in your lifetime. Now they let you purchase as many as *eight* per year! The CMP Garands are a heck of a deal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #25 May 5, 2004 hey i see you all are talking about guns again... I was always thinking about getting a pistol just to have fun shooting targets... I'm not planning on ever carrying it concealed, and since i don't think i would use it for personal defence, i don't need a large caliber. what would be a good, inexpensive pistol? do you think 9mm or .22 would be better, or another caliber? and btw, i've shot .22s, .38s, .45s, and while the larger calibers made bigger holes, i don't see the value in them over the cheaper rounds. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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peacefuljeffrey 0 #7 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe Beretta M-9 is a full on POS, you don't want to use it if your life truely depends on it. I've seen more jams and malfunctions out of Berettas then just about any other weapon out there (save the low end Rugers). I've put over 14,000rds through my Glock 17 (9mm) and only once has it done anything other then shoot accurately, once and only once, it stovepiped. If that's not reliable, then I don't know what is! OMG! I have a Glock 27 -- haven't put nearly that many rounds through it -- but I also have had exactly one stovepipe and no other malfunctions whatsoever. I love the .40. I bought my first .40 back in 1993. It was my first gun, and since I knew very little at all about handguns at the time, I let the dealer sell me something based on his recommendation. (I probably would have gone with 9mm if not for him.) He explained the pluses and minuses of having a larger round (slightly lower capacity than a 9mm gun) but better ballistics (.40 over 9mm). I'm glad he steered me that way. I sure am hoping that the ammunition capacity limit expires as it should in September. Just to kick the gun banners' intentions in the balls, I plan to buy at least 5-10 high capacity mags for my various guns. Quote.40 is a great defense load, very powerful and versital, plinking ammo isn't too expensive either. Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. I favor Glock & HK (which stands for Heckler & Koch, and since it's German, they say it "COKE.") Glocks may not be the most recommendable guns for someone new to them, though it pains me to say that. I guess it shouldn't be that way, because technically one should not be relying on mechanical safeties to save the day in the first place. If you get a Glock, make sure to have someone get you reallly familiar with how it will operate, particularly the fact that there is no manual safety, so it operates almost like a revolver. Good luck. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #8 May 3, 2004 Congrats!!Beretta or Glock?personally I dont care for either....Just find something that 1)fits your hand 2)fits your budget 3)is fairly easy to maintain and clean 4)ammo can be readily found 5)recoil you can live with.....I shoot a Kimber gold match .45 and whenI want to plink....I drop in the .22 conversion for it! same for the AR.Great for training too......gets people used to handling firearms without being scared to death of the recoil noise etc. EnjoyMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #9 May 3, 2004 9mm is a little cheaper and less recoil than .40. I'd recommend that for a first. Love my Glock 17...miss it. One thing not to buy into is a compensated barrel. Some people, particularly salesmen, try to push them to newer shooters saying that the reduced recoil is beneficial. But, if you ever do need to use it in a defense situation there are lots of negatives. If you don't have your arms fully extended, like if you're struggling with someone, you could burn yourself. Also, the muzzle flash is much more exposed and it will kill night vision with the first shot. Depending on your range that could be a problem too, if it's a low light range, like mine. Many people also encourage wheel guns for beginners. I don't think that should be a blanket recommendation. Revolvers and pistols both have their advantages/disadvantages including how the apply to new shooters. Weigh those and make your decision. Another great thing about Glock is the GSSF (Glock sport shooting foundation). It's a grass roots cometition circuit for Glocks only. It's great for new shooters, there aren't any draw from holster or running around with a loaded gun activities. It's all from the ready position. And they give away a LOT of free Glocks. Not just to the top guys, either. They handicap everyone. One more thing, as far as night sites go. Many people swear by them and say it's ridiculous not to have them on a defense gun. I don't agree. I bought into that at one time. But after I got better, and moved on from site alignment to point and shoot defense practice, I don't see the sites at all. Get good sites for when you're trying to drill holes in a round target and work on your trigger control. But they don't need to glow in the dark. When it comes to double taps on a sillouhette, you'll never use the sites anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #10 May 3, 2004 Oh yeah...and here's a great site with tons of info. http://www.glockfaq.com/ In particular, this part, is invaluable. Reading this and applying what you learn will do more for you than putting 10k rounds down range without knowing these tips. http://www.glockfaq.com/trigger.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #11 May 3, 2004 The last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. Kind of on the heavy side. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. I've always loved bolt action rifles myself. They may not have the fire power of an automatic, but usually they are a lot more accurate. I've always been partial to Remington 700's. I've heard they are about the most accurate (out of the box) rifle you can buy. Then if you fine tune it with the right reloads, glass bed the action, float the barrel, and work on the trigger, you can end up with super-accuracy. And put a quality scope on it. I've got a few Remingtons that will group close to 1/2 inch at 100 yds. with the right reloads. But then again I wouldn't mind having a Garand. I liked shooting them a lot.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #12 May 3, 2004 Quote Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. If you want to spend some money, get a higher end Kimber or a Wilson Combat. If you can, get to a range that has rental weapons and try them out. If you don't have that, get to a gun shop and atleast put each one of the weapons in your hands, see how it feels. For instance, I personally don't like Sigs since they don't fit in my hand very well. My Glocks do, Kimbers and H&Ks do as well. If you can't hold the weapon correctly, then you can't fire correctly. I really liked the G17 that a buddy had until I got used to my S226 (and 229). Seems to be an either/or deal for personal preferences. Sadly, the price, at least in CA, has gotten terrible on the Sigs. 800-900 before all the junk taxes are added. The supply of police refurbs H&K P7s seems long gone, but it was a steal at $699 a few years back. I also like the USP compact, have a 45 that works quite well once you adjust to the much greater recoil. 9mm ammo is so much cheaper, there's a lot said to get one in that, or to get a good .22 pistol to make range time more affordable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #13 May 3, 2004 QuoteI also have had exactly one stovepipe and no other malfunctions whatsoever. Since I'm already taking a lot of gun photos today, I might as well do another one, to show the other readers here what a "stovepipe" malfunction is. This is caused by the slide cycling and catching the spent cartridge casing from the previously fired round before it is kicked out through the ejection port. The result looks like a stovepipe sticking out of the gun. The next round fails to chamber. Clearance action is; pulling the slide back, while tilting the gun to the right, to allow the casing to fall free, then releasing the slide again to chamber the next round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. Yes, there are a lot of tricks you can do to a Garand to make it more accurate, as well as gunsmiths who will do it for you. Glass bedding, trigger stoning, peening the splines on the gas piston tube, and so on. As well as finding the right ammo for it. Standard military surplus M2 Ball works well, but M72 match ammo is even better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #15 May 4, 2004 First, congratulations on your decision. Second, for the rifle, well that is just too much to offer suggestions without a long conversation first. For the handgun, Glocks, HKs, Sigs, and Kimbers are all fine firearms. There are other high quality models out there, but they top the list. Para-Ordinance is also making a huge name for themselves. Try out the LDA: "light double action" in their pistols (higher capacity coming soon ). I know a few who swear by their Browning High Powers. I find the grip uncomfortable and the trigger atrocious, but the point is wrap your hands around as many as possible, for as much use as possible. If you consider a revoler, Taurus, S&W, and Sturm Ruger are tops in the industry. (my next purchase will likely be a Taurus 650SS (a 5 round .357 revolver, seen here) Remember, the AWB sunsets in 131 days. That means more for .40s and 9mms. (the shorter brass makes higher capacity easier) It means significantly less for .45s. A good place to start looking for more options Now This Was FUN! What Gun Are YOU?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 May 4, 2004 Well... some months ago I purchased a brand new Taurus .22 "Tracker" at a gun show. I fired it at the range twice, maybe three times, each time firing about one box of 550 rounds. Each firing session, I had occasionally noticed a stinging sensation in my left hand, which I mostly dismissed. I knew that gases escape the gap between cylinder and barrel on a revolver. When I mentioned this to the man behind the counter at the Delray Shooting Center (I think his name was Joe), he examined the gun and said, "This gun has problems." It seems that the cylinder lockup was not nearly as tight as he said it should be; in addition, with the trigger pulled fully rearward, on certain chambers the cylinder could be made to rotate without much force applied (this should not be able to happen at all). The stinging I had felt was excess gas and some lead being blown out the side when the chamber/barrel alignment was not adequately accurate. Fortunately, Taurus includes a lifetime warranty. I have delayed sending the gun back to them for service because I intend to find out about simply driving down to their U.S. headquarters in Miami (only about an hour or so away) to drop it off, rather than ship it there. Might as well see about having a tour of the place if I can. The gun feels great, and actually is very accurate. (Easy to be accurate with the light recoil of a .22 in a gun whose mass is about that of a .357, with a six inch barrel!) I'm very fond of the gun; I just want it to work right. I don't know if Taurus' other products are prone to similar problems. Until I see how well they remedy this one, I can't in good conscience yet recommend them with whole heart. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #17 May 4, 2004 I sure like my Glock model 36 .45. It's small and compact for a .45. Met a DEA guy one time who said he took 7 bullets in a drug bust gone- bad down in Mexico. He said it was the one slug from a .45 that knocked him down.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallRate 0 #18 May 4, 2004 Why was a DEA agent working a bust in Mexico? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #19 May 4, 2004 QuoteI recommend joining the NRA after you make your purchases, to help you keep those guns. Quote Good advice! I'm a life member too. Quote The M1 Garand is .30-06. They are fine rifles, and a nice piece of history. But not tack-driving accurate. The average Garand will shoot about 4" groups at 100 yards. Ammo is plentiful and fairly cheap. You might look into the CMP rifle sales program for a true army surplus Garand, rather than a civilian rebuild. I have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I also picked up an 'excellent' sniper model at a local gun show last year for a little over 600.00. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 May 4, 2004 Quote I sure like my Glock model 36 I had one, it was nice, I could conceal it just about anywhere on my body without having to really dress around it. The problem was, even with a grip extender, I could only get 2 fingers on it, I just flat out couldn't hold the damn thing, it was too small. So I would double tap and I couldn't put on in the head since the weapon had pulled its self far enough out of my grip. Thus it was an unsafe gun for me, I gave it to my dad.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #21 May 4, 2004 He was working a joint undercover operation south of the border. Some of the people that shot him were in fact local law officers.QuoteDo your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #22 May 4, 2004 I have little hands, and I just love .45's. Someone once told me never take a pistol to a gunfight that doesn't start with the number 4.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #23 May 4, 2004 You;ve heard "never take a knife to a gun fight,," right? Well, I say never take less than twice what you think you'll need. Someone recently asked my uncle what his favorite weapon was. (I suppose they wanted his opinion because he is miltary) His response? "My favorite weapon is a company of Marines." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 May 4, 2004 QuoteI have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I can tell you haven't seen the new CMP (former DCM) lately. The prices are up to $400.00 and more. You can now choose which manufacturer you want, as well as the condition, rather than it being pot luck. They are priced accordingly, with the more rare varieties, like Winchester and International Harvestor, costing more than the run of the mill Springfields. You don't really have to belong to a "shooting club", but do need to be a member of a state rifle association. Even if you have to join, the rifles are still a bargain price. The Texas State Rifle Association is only $20 per year, and the CMP sells their surplus Garands at several hundred dollars under the usual retail price. So it's well worth a one-year membership to get in on the deal. They'll waive the "competition" requirement if you are a current or former military member, and for several other exceptions. There are clubs all around the country that have matches at which the public is welcome, to meet this qualification. It's not really "competition", but rather just participation in a formally run match. Scores don't count. Just knowing how to shoot safely does. Oh, and they used to limit you to just one rifle purchase in your lifetime. Now they let you purchase as many as *eight* per year! The CMP Garands are a heck of a deal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #25 May 5, 2004 hey i see you all are talking about guns again... I was always thinking about getting a pistol just to have fun shooting targets... I'm not planning on ever carrying it concealed, and since i don't think i would use it for personal defence, i don't need a large caliber. what would be a good, inexpensive pistol? do you think 9mm or .22 would be better, or another caliber? and btw, i've shot .22s, .38s, .45s, and while the larger calibers made bigger holes, i don't see the value in them over the cheaper rounds. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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markd_nscr986 0 #8 May 3, 2004 Congrats!!Beretta or Glock?personally I dont care for either....Just find something that 1)fits your hand 2)fits your budget 3)is fairly easy to maintain and clean 4)ammo can be readily found 5)recoil you can live with.....I shoot a Kimber gold match .45 and whenI want to plink....I drop in the .22 conversion for it! same for the AR.Great for training too......gets people used to handling firearms without being scared to death of the recoil noise etc. EnjoyMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 May 3, 2004 9mm is a little cheaper and less recoil than .40. I'd recommend that for a first. Love my Glock 17...miss it. One thing not to buy into is a compensated barrel. Some people, particularly salesmen, try to push them to newer shooters saying that the reduced recoil is beneficial. But, if you ever do need to use it in a defense situation there are lots of negatives. If you don't have your arms fully extended, like if you're struggling with someone, you could burn yourself. Also, the muzzle flash is much more exposed and it will kill night vision with the first shot. Depending on your range that could be a problem too, if it's a low light range, like mine. Many people also encourage wheel guns for beginners. I don't think that should be a blanket recommendation. Revolvers and pistols both have their advantages/disadvantages including how the apply to new shooters. Weigh those and make your decision. Another great thing about Glock is the GSSF (Glock sport shooting foundation). It's a grass roots cometition circuit for Glocks only. It's great for new shooters, there aren't any draw from holster or running around with a loaded gun activities. It's all from the ready position. And they give away a LOT of free Glocks. Not just to the top guys, either. They handicap everyone. One more thing, as far as night sites go. Many people swear by them and say it's ridiculous not to have them on a defense gun. I don't agree. I bought into that at one time. But after I got better, and moved on from site alignment to point and shoot defense practice, I don't see the sites at all. Get good sites for when you're trying to drill holes in a round target and work on your trigger control. But they don't need to glow in the dark. When it comes to double taps on a sillouhette, you'll never use the sites anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 May 3, 2004 Oh yeah...and here's a great site with tons of info. http://www.glockfaq.com/ In particular, this part, is invaluable. Reading this and applying what you learn will do more for you than putting 10k rounds down range without knowing these tips. http://www.glockfaq.com/trigger.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #11 May 3, 2004 The last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. Kind of on the heavy side. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. I've always loved bolt action rifles myself. They may not have the fire power of an automatic, but usually they are a lot more accurate. I've always been partial to Remington 700's. I've heard they are about the most accurate (out of the box) rifle you can buy. Then if you fine tune it with the right reloads, glass bed the action, float the barrel, and work on the trigger, you can end up with super-accuracy. And put a quality scope on it. I've got a few Remingtons that will group close to 1/2 inch at 100 yds. with the right reloads. But then again I wouldn't mind having a Garand. I liked shooting them a lot.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #12 May 3, 2004 Quote Ok, end of story, get a Glock, Sig, Kimber or H&K. If you want to spend some money, get a higher end Kimber or a Wilson Combat. If you can, get to a range that has rental weapons and try them out. If you don't have that, get to a gun shop and atleast put each one of the weapons in your hands, see how it feels. For instance, I personally don't like Sigs since they don't fit in my hand very well. My Glocks do, Kimbers and H&Ks do as well. If you can't hold the weapon correctly, then you can't fire correctly. I really liked the G17 that a buddy had until I got used to my S226 (and 229). Seems to be an either/or deal for personal preferences. Sadly, the price, at least in CA, has gotten terrible on the Sigs. 800-900 before all the junk taxes are added. The supply of police refurbs H&K P7s seems long gone, but it was a steal at $699 a few years back. I also like the USP compact, have a 45 that works quite well once you adjust to the much greater recoil. 9mm ammo is so much cheaper, there's a lot said to get one in that, or to get a good .22 pistol to make range time more affordable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 May 3, 2004 QuoteI also have had exactly one stovepipe and no other malfunctions whatsoever. Since I'm already taking a lot of gun photos today, I might as well do another one, to show the other readers here what a "stovepipe" malfunction is. This is caused by the slide cycling and catching the spent cartridge casing from the previously fired round before it is kicked out through the ejection port. The result looks like a stovepipe sticking out of the gun. The next round fails to chamber. Clearance action is; pulling the slide back, while tilting the gun to the right, to allow the casing to fall free, then releasing the slide again to chamber the next round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 May 3, 2004 QuoteThe last M-1 Garand I shot was in weapons training at Bragg. I loved shooting it. I suppose you could get one accurized that might shoot better than 4 inch groups. Yes, there are a lot of tricks you can do to a Garand to make it more accurate, as well as gunsmiths who will do it for you. Glass bedding, trigger stoning, peening the splines on the gas piston tube, and so on. As well as finding the right ammo for it. Standard military surplus M2 Ball works well, but M72 match ammo is even better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #15 May 4, 2004 First, congratulations on your decision. Second, for the rifle, well that is just too much to offer suggestions without a long conversation first. For the handgun, Glocks, HKs, Sigs, and Kimbers are all fine firearms. There are other high quality models out there, but they top the list. Para-Ordinance is also making a huge name for themselves. Try out the LDA: "light double action" in their pistols (higher capacity coming soon ). I know a few who swear by their Browning High Powers. I find the grip uncomfortable and the trigger atrocious, but the point is wrap your hands around as many as possible, for as much use as possible. If you consider a revoler, Taurus, S&W, and Sturm Ruger are tops in the industry. (my next purchase will likely be a Taurus 650SS (a 5 round .357 revolver, seen here) Remember, the AWB sunsets in 131 days. That means more for .40s and 9mms. (the shorter brass makes higher capacity easier) It means significantly less for .45s. A good place to start looking for more options Now This Was FUN! What Gun Are YOU?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #16 May 4, 2004 Well... some months ago I purchased a brand new Taurus .22 "Tracker" at a gun show. I fired it at the range twice, maybe three times, each time firing about one box of 550 rounds. Each firing session, I had occasionally noticed a stinging sensation in my left hand, which I mostly dismissed. I knew that gases escape the gap between cylinder and barrel on a revolver. When I mentioned this to the man behind the counter at the Delray Shooting Center (I think his name was Joe), he examined the gun and said, "This gun has problems." It seems that the cylinder lockup was not nearly as tight as he said it should be; in addition, with the trigger pulled fully rearward, on certain chambers the cylinder could be made to rotate without much force applied (this should not be able to happen at all). The stinging I had felt was excess gas and some lead being blown out the side when the chamber/barrel alignment was not adequately accurate. Fortunately, Taurus includes a lifetime warranty. I have delayed sending the gun back to them for service because I intend to find out about simply driving down to their U.S. headquarters in Miami (only about an hour or so away) to drop it off, rather than ship it there. Might as well see about having a tour of the place if I can. The gun feels great, and actually is very accurate. (Easy to be accurate with the light recoil of a .22 in a gun whose mass is about that of a .357, with a six inch barrel!) I'm very fond of the gun; I just want it to work right. I don't know if Taurus' other products are prone to similar problems. Until I see how well they remedy this one, I can't in good conscience yet recommend them with whole heart. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #17 May 4, 2004 I sure like my Glock model 36 .45. It's small and compact for a .45. Met a DEA guy one time who said he took 7 bullets in a drug bust gone- bad down in Mexico. He said it was the one slug from a .45 that knocked him down.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #18 May 4, 2004 Why was a DEA agent working a bust in Mexico? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #19 May 4, 2004 QuoteI recommend joining the NRA after you make your purchases, to help you keep those guns. Quote Good advice! I'm a life member too. Quote The M1 Garand is .30-06. They are fine rifles, and a nice piece of history. But not tack-driving accurate. The average Garand will shoot about 4" groups at 100 yards. Ammo is plentiful and fairly cheap. You might look into the CMP rifle sales program for a true army surplus Garand, rather than a civilian rebuild. I have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I also picked up an 'excellent' sniper model at a local gun show last year for a little over 600.00. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 May 4, 2004 Quote I sure like my Glock model 36 I had one, it was nice, I could conceal it just about anywhere on my body without having to really dress around it. The problem was, even with a grip extender, I could only get 2 fingers on it, I just flat out couldn't hold the damn thing, it was too small. So I would double tap and I couldn't put on in the head since the weapon had pulled its self far enough out of my grip. Thus it was an unsafe gun for me, I gave it to my dad.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #21 May 4, 2004 He was working a joint undercover operation south of the border. Some of the people that shot him were in fact local law officers.QuoteDo your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #22 May 4, 2004 I have little hands, and I just love .45's. Someone once told me never take a pistol to a gunfight that doesn't start with the number 4.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #23 May 4, 2004 You;ve heard "never take a knife to a gun fight,," right? Well, I say never take less than twice what you think you'll need. Someone recently asked my uncle what his favorite weapon was. (I suppose they wanted his opinion because he is miltary) His response? "My favorite weapon is a company of Marines." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 May 4, 2004 QuoteI have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I can tell you haven't seen the new CMP (former DCM) lately. The prices are up to $400.00 and more. You can now choose which manufacturer you want, as well as the condition, rather than it being pot luck. They are priced accordingly, with the more rare varieties, like Winchester and International Harvestor, costing more than the run of the mill Springfields. You don't really have to belong to a "shooting club", but do need to be a member of a state rifle association. Even if you have to join, the rifles are still a bargain price. The Texas State Rifle Association is only $20 per year, and the CMP sells their surplus Garands at several hundred dollars under the usual retail price. So it's well worth a one-year membership to get in on the deal. They'll waive the "competition" requirement if you are a current or former military member, and for several other exceptions. There are clubs all around the country that have matches at which the public is welcome, to meet this qualification. It's not really "competition", but rather just participation in a formally run match. Scores don't count. Just knowing how to shoot safely does. Oh, and they used to limit you to just one rifle purchase in your lifetime. Now they let you purchase as many as *eight* per year! The CMP Garands are a heck of a deal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #25 May 5, 2004 hey i see you all are talking about guns again... I was always thinking about getting a pistol just to have fun shooting targets... I'm not planning on ever carrying it concealed, and since i don't think i would use it for personal defence, i don't need a large caliber. what would be a good, inexpensive pistol? do you think 9mm or .22 would be better, or another caliber? and btw, i've shot .22s, .38s, .45s, and while the larger calibers made bigger holes, i don't see the value in them over the cheaper rounds. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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AggieDave 6 #20 May 4, 2004 Quote I sure like my Glock model 36 I had one, it was nice, I could conceal it just about anywhere on my body without having to really dress around it. The problem was, even with a grip extender, I could only get 2 fingers on it, I just flat out couldn't hold the damn thing, it was too small. So I would double tap and I couldn't put on in the head since the weapon had pulled its self far enough out of my grip. Thus it was an unsafe gun for me, I gave it to my dad.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #21 May 4, 2004 He was working a joint undercover operation south of the border. Some of the people that shot him were in fact local law officers.QuoteDo your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #22 May 4, 2004 I have little hands, and I just love .45's. Someone once told me never take a pistol to a gunfight that doesn't start with the number 4.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #22 May 4, 2004 I have little hands, and I just love .45's. Someone once told me never take a pistol to a gunfight that doesn't start with the number 4.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #23 May 4, 2004 You;ve heard "never take a knife to a gun fight,," right? Well, I say never take less than twice what you think you'll need. Someone recently asked my uncle what his favorite weapon was. (I suppose they wanted his opinion because he is miltary) His response? "My favorite weapon is a company of Marines." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 May 4, 2004 QuoteI have a couple of M1's...one via the DCM, there are some hoops you need to jump through. You have to be a member of a 'shooting club', and also have proof that you've shot in competition in the last 12 months. The purchase price is around 100.00 bucks. It's then the luck of the draw as to what you will get, my dads came and it looked 'unused' in NRA excellent condition... mine looked like it was dragged behind a jeep through the entire European theater! I can tell you haven't seen the new CMP (former DCM) lately. The prices are up to $400.00 and more. You can now choose which manufacturer you want, as well as the condition, rather than it being pot luck. They are priced accordingly, with the more rare varieties, like Winchester and International Harvestor, costing more than the run of the mill Springfields. You don't really have to belong to a "shooting club", but do need to be a member of a state rifle association. Even if you have to join, the rifles are still a bargain price. The Texas State Rifle Association is only $20 per year, and the CMP sells their surplus Garands at several hundred dollars under the usual retail price. So it's well worth a one-year membership to get in on the deal. They'll waive the "competition" requirement if you are a current or former military member, and for several other exceptions. There are clubs all around the country that have matches at which the public is welcome, to meet this qualification. It's not really "competition", but rather just participation in a formally run match. Scores don't count. Just knowing how to shoot safely does. Oh, and they used to limit you to just one rifle purchase in your lifetime. Now they let you purchase as many as *eight* per year! The CMP Garands are a heck of a deal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #25 May 5, 2004 hey i see you all are talking about guns again... I was always thinking about getting a pistol just to have fun shooting targets... I'm not planning on ever carrying it concealed, and since i don't think i would use it for personal defence, i don't need a large caliber. what would be a good, inexpensive pistol? do you think 9mm or .22 would be better, or another caliber? and btw, i've shot .22s, .38s, .45s, and while the larger calibers made bigger holes, i don't see the value in them over the cheaper rounds. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
