The Catholic Church and Politics

[PhillyKev 0]

Ok, so some Cardinal ordered that Kerry no longer be given the wholly sacrament because he supports abortion rights and stem cell research. That's perfectly fine, as that is what their religion doctrine states is proper.

The problem I have with it is no such condemnation of death penalty supporting republicans has been issued. It's obviously a political move and not a religious one.

[Jimbo 0]

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The problem I have with it is no such condemnation of death penalty supporting republicans has been issued. It's obviously a political move and not a religious one.

Really? The death penalty is mentioned numerous times in the bible, isn't it? That whole eye for an eye thing?

Someone with more knowledge of religion will probably come along and contradict me, that's OK, I haven't studied the bible since gradeschool.

As far as stem cell research goes, I don't know Kerry's position, but I do know that we can get stem cells from more than just aborted fetuses.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Someone with more knowledge of religion will probably come along and contradict me, that's OK, I haven't studied the bible since gradeschool.

Check the current Catholic rules. They condemn the death penalty and are vehemently opposed to it.

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As far as stem cell research goes, I don't know Kerry's position, but I do know that we can get stem cells from more than just aborted fetuses

Exactly. GWB made it illegal to create any new supply of stem cells for research, no matter where they come from. Has nothing to do with fetuses. It has to do with his religious beliefs that we shouldn't be messing around with the building blocks of life. Kerry supports stem cell research.

[kallend 1,635]

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The problem I have with it is no such condemnation of death penalty supporting republicans has been issued. It's obviously a political move and not a religious one.

Really? The death penalty is mentioned numerous times in the bible, isn't it? That whole eye for an eye thing?

Someone with more knowledge of religion will probably come along and contradict me, that's OK, I haven't studied the bible since gradeschool.

-
Jim

Read the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus explicitly repudiates the "eye for an eye" bit. (Matthew 5: 38-39).

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,257]

Thats not so much church in politics as church in science, same as all the cloning and GM debates and such like. Either way I'd be much happier if they stuck to christenings, weddings and the last rites and didn't try to impose their moral code on scientific progress and by extension, me.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,412]

>Ok, so some Cardinal ordered that Kerry no longer be given the
> wholly sacrament because he supports abortion rights and stem cell
> research. That's perfectly fine, as that is what their religion doctrine
> states is proper.

Interesting! Yet not only do they still offer communion to George Pataki and Rudy Giuliani, they invite them to fundraising dinners. Both politicians are pro-choice catholics, but are currently popular.

[Deuce 1]

Not quite true, Philly, about the death penalty thing.

The current Catholic catechism asserts that ''the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty.''

Vatican Council II declared abortion to be an ''unspeakable crime.'' Pope John Paul II's Evangelium Vitae (Gospel of Life) encyclical in 1995 asserted that responsibility for this crime ''falls on the legislators who have promoted and approved abortion laws.''

(Quotes from Bob Novak's column today http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak03.html
)

The current public thrashing that anybody takes, who take an ethical position is chilling. Ideals are ideals and the glee that people take, in condemning me and all Catholics for the crimes of priests, and the foibles of doctrine is just annoying.

Of course there's hypocrisy in the system, it's a human system.

[JJohnson 0]

Since when is politics and the Catholic church a new thing. That dates back to Constantine at least.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[TheAnvil 0]

You should re-read the Church's positions on the death penalty and get back to us. Prior to doing so, try reading the Acts, Chapter 5 I believe, with regards to Ananias and Sapphira as well. This pathetic slam on the Catholic Church and its positions has relatively little merit and is thoroughly disgusting to this Catholic conservative.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means.
Catechism 2266-67

Getting back to you. Sorry you're disgusted by the truth.

[Deuce 1]

The truth doesn't bother me at all. Abortion is capital punishment where no crime has occurred (barring rape or incest or the like, even then not a crime committed by the fetus) and capital punishment is captital punishment where at least 13 people believe a specific crime occurred.

I really have no problem with either one, so long as people understand that in both cases a human life is being deliberately ended. A woman has the choice to end her child's life during it's early development. I personally think the hypocrisy is in calling the child a "choice" but hey, I'm Catholic, (and a Republican ) so I'm by definition a hypocrite, right?

Anyhow, you know what Catholicism is for me today? I went to my kid's school and made bread with all the second graders and the other Mom's for their first communion Saturday. Then we'll go to brunch with some of the other families.

After brunch we'll all tune our implants to RomeOne and recieve our next orders.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Anyhow, you know what Catholicism is for me today? I went to my kid's school and made bread with all the second graders and the other Mom's for their first communion Saturday. Then we'll go to brunch with some of the other families.

After brunch we'll all tune our implants to RomeOne and recieve our next orders.

[TheAnvil 0]

Not at all disgusted by the truth, just your deliberate misrepresentation of it. Like I said - do your research and get back to us when you know something.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Deuce 1]

Yeah, the kids are cool. Even some of the boys try to get my attention and help with stuff cause I'm the only Dad-mom in the group. That, and I'm just so cool in my "Skydive Team Wings" T-shirt.

My girls have veils too. Our little Brides of Christ. Calling them that drives the agnostics nuts, but that's what they are, and they are going to wear their little "wedding dresses" Saturday and be all beautiful and grown up. They believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Jesus. They believe that marriage is forever, and that God will greet us in death.

Faith is a value-added thing in life. It detracts nothing. I love my lesbian vegan buddies just as much as the folks I go to church with. I leave judgement to the thing that comes after.

Even if nothing comes after, faith has added to my life, and the lives of my family and parishioners.

I just smile when I'm mocked for it. It's something that a fictional character named Christ taught me.

[JJohnson 0]

Well said and applies equally to any religion.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[kallend 1,635]

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You should re-read the Church's positions on the death penalty and get back to us. Prior to doing so, try reading the Acts, Chapter 5 I believe, with regards to Ananias and Sapphira as well. This pathetic slam on the Catholic Church and its positions has relatively little merit and is thoroughly disgusting to this Catholic conservative.

So what is the Vatican's current position on the death penalty?

"the cases in which execution of the offender is an absolute necessity ‘are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2267)

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

I thought "bride of christ" referred to a nun??

[misskriss 0]

My little brides with my grandmother who passed away not too long ago. Grandma was so proud as I was the only one who brought up my children as Catholics. The tears in her eyes that day and the look on her face is something I'll treasure always.

[Snowwhite 0]

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I thought "bride of christ" referred to a nun??

Yes, it does. A nun who has taken her final vows, including the vow of chastity.

I always get a kick out of the contradictions in the One True, Holy Roman Catholic Church. I can't divorce my husband, remarry, and EVER take Holy Communion again, but if I murder him, and am TRULY sorry, and do a complete confession, I can be forgiven, and receive communion any time I want.
I remind him of this when we have the occasional argument....

skydiveTaylorville.org
[email protected]

[TheAnvil 0]

OK. Two people post this clip from the catechism without reading it. This is not an outright ban on the death penalty. Unlike abortions.

Now if you'd like to debate the controversy over the argument behind this catechism - including why it is not an outright ban, by all means start another thread and I'll join in with gusto.

Kerry, TeddyK, and Daschle are all worthy of excommunication - and not just for their ardent support of abortion.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Muenkel 0]

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I always get a kick out of the contradictions in the One True, Holy Roman Catholic Church. I can't divorce my husband, remarry, and EVER take Holy Communion again, but if I murder him, and am TRULY sorry, and do a complete confession, I can be forgiven, and receive communion any time I want.

You've got a few inaccuracies here in regard to the Catholic Church. First, divorcing your spouse does not mean you cannot receive Holy Communion. It is true that if you were married in the Catholic Church you cannot remarry unless an annullment is granted. You can research this in any Catholic catechism. Secondly, if you were to murder your husband, you can go to confession to receive forgiveness. However, there must be complete contrition present for that forgiveness. You also must turn yourself in to the police and take whatever punishment the judicial system grants you.

All sins are forgiveable in God's eyes. If they weren't, none of us would have anything to hope for.

_________________________________________
Chris

[kallend 1,635]

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OK. Two people post this clip from the catechism without reading it. This is not an outright ban on the death penalty. Unlike abortions.

Now if you'd like to debate the controversy over the argument behind this catechism - including why it is not an outright ban, by all means start another thread and I'll join in with gusto.

Kerry, TeddyK, and Daschle are all worthy of excommunication - and not just for their ardent support of abortion.

Done.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.