WTF! I'm disgusted.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Necrotic means dead. No problem getting rid of dead kids. But I have a feeling you'd be upset if they amputated your arm if it was broken.

These kids are screwed up, but more importantly they committed a crime. Put em in jail/detention, let them think about what they did. Maybe they will learn, maybe they won't. The world is sometimes better off when people like Roger Nelson are just imprisoned and later released; sometimes they do learn. Often they don't, in which case they end up in prison forever. Their choice.

Bill,
if they just had stolen a car or shop lifted that would warrent punishment/rehabilitation in my book.

But not only did the realize they were taking something that was not their's (a crime in this society) but the decided that the 85 year old man's life was not worth their joyride, and left him to die.

Such a disreguard for human life should be returned in kind. It is my stance that these two (well one now) are not normal human childen, nor normal adult humans at all. They are defectives that are a danger to society. I've got lees than no time for them.

What possibe justification oor "right" to life could this kid give to me now that says his life is more equal than the man's that he so carelessly tried to throw away?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Society's always been this way.

True. It has, except that it did a better job of "culling" itself in the past.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Society's always been this way. The past wasn't any better - think about the gangland executions in Chicago, the witch burnings in Salem, the .44 caliber killer. Every age has its evil. I think as we get older we just see more and more of that evil.

True. And as technology has advanced we hear about more of the evil that occurs in places far from us.

Perhaps what hits hardest for me is that this happened in the same town I lived in for 7 years, the same town I "finished" raising my son in... and in the same WalMart parking lot that I parked in many times.

[Deuce 1]

Lisa, they saying "Don't trust strangers" is older than both of us, and gee, I'm older than you, missy .

When you were a kid, what was the population of your community, (Hemet, right?) and what is it now? With anonymity there is always an increase in crime, and there always was. When neighbors know each other, and go participate in the community, they experience less crime. When they are welcome to talk to each other's kids, they tend to do more group parenting. The other parents of kids in my kids school and my parish see my kids doing something wrong, they'll stop my kids and tell me what was up. I think this is different for other folks who wouldn't correct my kids and would crap their pants if I took their kids by the hand and had them stop doing something.

I think it's lawyers and population pressure exacerbating things, but it's definitely not anything new.

[wmw999 2,334]

I'm tired of PM'ing it so only you know. Deuce, you totally rock.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 259]

Quote

When you were a kid, what was the population of your community, (Hemet, right?) and what is it now?

Two different places.

I grew up in a town that had 2000 people when we moved there (at age 9) and 5000 when I left (at age 28 with a 10 year old son). Growing up we kids knew better than to do stupid shit; my brother used to say that our parents would know what we were planning to do before we could even do it.

Hemet had 40,000 when my kid and I moved there and a bit over 50,000 now. Never did I feel unsafe as a single female - although I did lock my car and house doors.

I really hate it when my Pollyanna view of the world gets stomped on like this.

[billvon 2,772]

>What possibe justification oor "right" to life could this kid give to me
> now that says his life is more equal than the man's that he so
> carelessly tried to throw away?

None, to you. However, he didn't kill anyone. He's as careless as a drunk driver who plows into a crowd of kids but doesn't kill anyone. They both exhibited extreme carelessness and lack of regard for human life, but both lucked out and managed to not kill anyone (through sheer luck.) Hopefully they both go to jail.

But in terms of the punishment matching the crime, neither person killed anyone.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

They both exhibited extreme carelessness and lack of regard for human life, but both lucked out and managed to not kill anyone (through sheer luck.) Hopefully they both go to jail.

One of the boys died in the accident.

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

But not only did the realize they were taking something that was not their's (a crime in this society) but the decided that the 85 year old man's life was not worth their joyride, and left him to die.

Something to think about. By dropping off the old man, they likely saved his life. If the accident killed one of the kids, it almost certainly would have killed him, too.

Personally, I see dropping off the old guy as an act of charity. They wanted the car, not a hostage.

The villain that i see here is the woman who left her father in the car when she ran inside. I have as much disdain for her as I do for those who leave their infants in the car during the hot summer or cold winter.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[TomAiello 26]

Although I hesitate to ask...What town was this in?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Personally, I see dropping off the old guy as an act of charity.

Dumping an invalid elderly man who can't speak out onto a city street is an act of charity?

Quote

The villain that i see here is the woman who left her father in the car when she ran inside

Reread. It was her husband, not her father.

Quote

I have as much disdain for her as I do for those who leave their infants in the car during the hot summer or cold winter.

Reread again. The car was left running so the air conditioning would stay on. Had she left him there with the car off and the windows rolled up I'd agree with you.

Perhaps she had no one else to care for him while she ran errands? She's no spring chicken herself; maybe getting him in and out of the car several times was too much for her physically, yet she couldn't leave him at home alone. Maybe that was the best option in her mind.

And maybe, just maybe, she shared my Pollyanna view of the world... the one that assumes that people aren't evil.

My God... how about a bit of compassion? She and he have to live with this memory for the rest of their lives. All because a couple punks wanted a car and didn't care who they had to hurt to get it.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Society's always been this way.

True. It has, except that it did a better job of "culling" itself in the past.

You may be romanticizing the past- I'm not convinced it was any better in the past, and certainly not in the overall sense. You don't have to go back very far when crime went unchecked, or when priviledge reigned over justice.

You got to shake your heads at what spectacular screwups these kids are. Killed one of themselves, badly hurt the other, and got caught. At 15, the survivor may be old enough to be treated as an adult and you have a special circumstance murder.

Certainly seems a bit karmic, no?

[DiveMaker 0]

Quote

Where did this happen?

Hemet CA WalMart (there is only one. - about 0.5 miles from my house)

from PE.com

Trip takes scary turn

CARJACKING: A teen dies and the family of an elderly Hemet man worries about his fate.

01:25 AM PDT on Thursday, April 29, 2004

By KENNY KLEIN and SONJA BELLAND / The Press-Enterprise

One of two teenagers suspected in the carjacking of an elderly man from the Hemet Wal-Mart parking lot died after the vehicle smashed into a tree.

The elderly man was dropped off minutes before the crash. But family members, including the son who happened to spot the speeding car while searching for his dad, did not know his whereabouts for hours.

About 1:30 p.m. Wednesday, a citywide search began for 82-year-old Hemet resident Darrell Grangaard. Police said they found him more than two hours later wandering outside a mobile home at Sun Valley Estates, less than a block from the Wal-Mart. After the ordeal ended, Grangaard sat in the air-conditioned back seat of a Hemet police car as medics checked his vital signs.
DeeAnn Bradley / The Press-Enterprise
Hemet resident Darrell Grangaard, 82, thanks Hemet Officer James Waters, who found Grangaard wandering less than a block from the Wal-Mart where he was carjacked.

"I'm OK. I'm fine," Grangaard said. "I'm happy."

The unidentified 15-year-old passenger in the stolen car died when the car wrapped around a tree in a San Jacinto neighborhood.

An ambulance took the second unidentified teenager to Riverside County Regional Medical Center in Moreno Valley, where he was in critical condition.

The crash marked the second fatal accident in San Jacinto this month that involved a stolen car crashing into a tree. On April 2, two Hemet men died after police chased a stolen Mustang through the city.

Shopping trip gone awry

About 1 p.m. Wednesday, Grangaard, his wife, Mary, and their daughter Janet Green went shopping at the Wal-Mart on Florida Avenue, police Sgt. Kevin Caskey said. A tearful reunion hours later brought the day to a close.

Before the carjacking, Darrell Grangaard, who doesn't drive, waited in the back seat of their 1995 Mercury Marquis with the windows partially rolled down, family members said. The key was in the ignition because he was listening to the new Rod Stewart tape.

The teenagers got into the car and drove away, but dropped Grangaard off unharmed a few minutes later, police said.

When they left the store, Mary Grangaard and her daughter realized the car and Darrell Grangaard were gone. They told a store employee to call 911.

A store greeter tried to console Mary Grangaard as the cried, she said. Green said she focused on helping her mom and keeping track of the plant and shoulder pads the two had purchased.

"When something like that happens to you it's like you woke up from a darn dream or something," Green said. "I just told her don't think the worst - you can't."

Hours of worry

When the doorbell rang about 5 p.m., Mary Grangaard scurried to the front door. Her "Bub" was home.

"What a day. What did they do to you, sweet pea?" she asked as she held her husband's face, kissed and hugged him.

After many more hugs and kisses, Mary Grangaard helped him to his favorite spot on the couch.

"They didn't want an old bugger like you?" she asked him. For two hours, Mary Grangaard worried about her husband of more than 60 years. After heart attacks and strokes, the family feared the trauma might bring on another one. The couple is never apart, as Darrell Grangaard needs help walking because he broke a hip. A detective called his wife at home to tell her that her husband had been found.

The minutes took forever to tick by as Mary Grangaard and her daughter waited for Bub's return. They called relatives to let them know the good news and watched the coverage on television.

"There's Bub, look at him. Bring him home," Mary said, blubbering as she saw footage of her husband being helped by police.

Fear and luck

The worry of Grangaard's family was amplified when his son, Darrell E. Grangaard, spotted the car and then saw it totaled moments later. The son, who works in San Jacinto, rushed to scene when called and told what had happened.

As Darrell E. Grangaard drove to his mother's aide, he spotted his parents' car speeding near Seventh Street just east of Main Street in San Jacinto. He followed it as the suspects almost crashed into several cars about 2 p.m.

"They almost hit me head on," said Hector Villegas, a 32-year-old Hemet man. "When I moved into the dirt to avoid them, they lost it. They went sideways and slammed right into that tree."

At the scene, Darrell E. Grangaard, his granddaughter Cherise Musick and other relatives watched as firefighters and officers searched the totaled car.

The car was so mangled, Grangaard's relatives cried and feared their loved one was inside. They repeatedly questioned officers and broke into tears. Later, they found out he was not inside.

"What a stroke of luck to see the car," Musick said. "We were worried Grandpa was in that car. It's terrifying to say the least."

Officer James Waters later found Grangaard behind a mobile home. Grangaard, wearing a black "Hawaii" cap, dress shirt and tan slacks, was dehydrated. "He did not know where he was at," Waters said. "He had a difficult time communicating."Residents in the Sun Valley mobile home park where Grangaard was found didn't think much of elderly man wandering around - until television helicopters circled overhead after more than a dozen officers arrived. "There are old guys walking around here all the time," resident John Skiles said. "You just don't know. You just become blind to what's going on."Staff writer Han Kwak contributed to this report.
..........

There were also two helicopters circling the area about that time. They were flying over my house so I went out to see if there was a big fire or what not???
I hopped on my bike & pedled down to Florida & Gilmore (x-streets by Walmart)
All I could tell was that they were overflying the area from WalMart to a place to the East (where the crash was)

WalMart also has a security officer in a golf cart patrolling the lot during business hours.

..............

Hemet is a small retirement community. I leave my house unlocked all the time. I only lock things up when I leave for days at a time and take RePete with me.

.............

For what it's worth….

The kids that hijacked the car - then probably to their surprise - realized someone was in the car - did the better of alternatives by setting the old guy out. The neighborhood has many retirement areas. Better that, than taking the old man on the joy ride and getting him killed too.
I don't condone what the kids did, but I think they realized they had more than they bargained for & made the better of it.

The people that left the old guy in the car: I don't know if the car was on with AC running, but it was HOT that day. I wouldn't do a quickie WM run with my dog - even if I left the engine & AC running (with locked car of course). I just can't see that the people leaving this 'almost' invalid type elderly man in a vehicle alone are completely innocent. Certainly, they do not need suffer a kidnapping or car jacking, but they left someone that apparently could not take care of himself alone in a car with 100 degree temps. That just doesn't sit right with me either.
.........

DiveMaker

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

At 15, the survivor may be old enough to be treated as an adult and you have a special circumstance murder.

Fortunaetly the 85year old stroke victum did not die.

Unfortunately the kid will probably get off with a slap to the wrist despite his disreguard for the mans life.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skybytch 259]

Thanks for posting that Jan.

Apparently my mom didn't have all the details straight.

[JJohnson 0]

Interesting point of view. All the more reason to beat up lawyers first, then the feral kids.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[Deuce 1]

She had enough of them straight, Lisa.

AND, for those who wanted final vengeance, the surviving teen is eligible for the death penalty. Deaths which occur during the commission of a violent felony, and I'm almost positive carjacking was added to the list about 10 years ago, can be prosecuted for homicide. Both teens are principles in that crime.

Interesting little known fact is that the term "accessory" to a crime can only be applied after the fact, by persons who aid and abet the criminal after the fact.

Don't worry, be happy. And lock your doors.

[jdfreefly 1]

If you think you are disgusted know, wait until the family of the dead boy sues the car owner.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

That's horrific! I don't understand how people can do that to a near helpless being.. not right!

Quote

I shouldn't have made>

Somehow I doubt that!

Angela

[RoadRash 0]

Quote

Otherwise, they have the same responsibilities as anyone else, no matter how much their mother drank.

Exactly...there is no excuse for their actions...NONE...I'm with skybytch...but I would have definitely been much more graphic about what should have been done to them......I know of some people (close personal friends of mine) who grew up in some unsavory family situations, but they are good decent human beings and wouldn't even dream of stealing someone's car or dumping an elderly gentleman in a ditch because he was excess baggage. That is ridiculous......There are far too many sick individuals on this earth...

$0.02 and then some...


~R+R

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[RoadRash 0]

Quote

If you think you are disgusted know, wait until the family of the dead boy sues the car owner.

Unfortunately, in this day in age...I would have to agree......Sad but true...


~R+R

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[nightjumps 1]

Quote

You really do believe beating them would bring any results? what a low class thinking is this! did you ever met anyone who became a better one by thrashing?

I'll address this first. Yes, I do believe a good a$$-whipping brings results. Two examples: First, me. Yes, I was one of those 15 year old kids who did everything wrong. Between the neighbors beating my a$$ or the nuns, then taking me to my parents to explain why they beat my a$$, only for my parents to beat my a$$ because someone else had to made me have to consider the results of my actions. I was forced to choose prior to committing some offense if the offense was worth the punishment if caught.

Second example; When I was stationed in Europe, I had a buddy about my size who was married to a petite blonde about five feet tall and a hundred pounds. Now, he was a good guy. Loved his wife dearly. Unfortunately, he had too much to drink one night; went home and knocked her around (at that time, had my fellow soldiers heard about it, he would have got a "bunk adapter" party).

However, she let him pass out and while he was passed out, she went into the kitchen, got one of those eighteen inch cast iron skillets, went into the bedroom, raised it over his head and brought it down vigorously on his face. He woke up with a busted nose and two black eyes. She dressed him and took him to the base hospital. After he had been bandaged up, she told him, "I love you very much, but I need you to understand that if you come home drunk and do that again, the same thing will occur."

Few months later, he went out drinking with the guys, went home and did the same thing. She went into the kitchen, got the eighteen inch cast iron skillet, went into the bedroom, raised it over his head and brought it down vigorously on his face again. He woke up with a busted nose and two black eyes.

He never took another drink.

Quote

people like you with a short fuse should not have any power in hands.

Yeah, you're probably right. I really can't stand bullies, men who beat on women, rapists, thieves, burglars, people who sell drugs to children, or those who take advantage of others. I have a very short fuse when it comes to things like that. Its a fault.

[RoadRash 0]

Quote

Yeah, you're probably right. I really can't stand bullies, men who beat on women, thieves or those who take advantage of others. I have a very short fuse when it comes to things like that. Its a fault.

I don't think it is a fault at all...I hope there are others out there who can't tolerate the offenses you listed above...What scares me is that people make excuses for such things...that is disgusting...


~R+R

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[nightjumps 1]

The nuns straightened me out, Bro. I still cringe when I think about Sister Theresa coming at me with the yardstick telling me to open my hand.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

They both exhibited extreme carelessness and lack of regard for human life, but both lucked out and managed to not kill anyone (through sheer luck.) Hopefully they both go to jail.

One of the boys died in the accident.

GOOD. Now the other piece of shit will face a felony murder charge.

As far as what you said about the "lucking out" part... I have a hard time feeling that there should be much difference in punishment between the guy who does something so reckless that he risked the death of others but fortunately did not kill anyone, and the guy who risked the death of others and sure enough, others died.

Some comedian used to joke about sentencing someone to less time for "attempted murder" than for "murder." He said something like, "Why less jail time? All he did was MISS!"
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"