skreamer 1 #1 April 22, 2001 Hi guysWe have been having a discussion about where IRs should be posted on dropzone.com, please select which of the following two you feel is more appropriate :Where should IRs go? On the homepage of dz.com for all to see when they view the site In a part of the website that can only be accessed by experienced skydivers/s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #2 April 22, 2001 You missed my point, it isn't a part of the site that ONLY experienced can view - but a part of the site where experienced know where to find it. I.e. not on the very front page. Anyone can view them, and even non experienced can find them if they look for them.That poll totally sucks. Of course everyone is going to vote for #1 according to how you worded it.Edited by kevin922 on 4/22/01 11:24 AM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #3 April 22, 2001 With all due respect, Skreamer, I think this is a non-issue.This is a sight for skydivers, whuffos, and the G.P. alike.IRs are a reality. For all those interested in this sport, everything about the sport should be accessible. Putting the news on deaths/accidents/injuries in a part of the page that is only accessible to exp. jumpers and web surfers is like asking the news to only mention all the school shootings/deaths/auto accidents on a channel that not everyone gets. This wouldn't be full disclosure to the public and would in effect keep the world in a safe box.This is impossible. We can't all be safe, all of the time. BUT, we can sure try. More importantly, we can learn from other's mistakes/happenings.And, if someone is interested in skydiving and gets scared off by the news of a recent death, then the sport is better off. That kind of fear while altogether common, shouldn't affect those who actually WANT to make this part of their lifestyle. (and it could be dangerous to put those people in the air with us!)I agree with your post on the other thread - that we ALL should help make Sangiro's life a little easier and help out with stories of our GOOD happenings, but not to the total exclusion of our OTHER happenings.Anyway, I invite all criticisms on this matter. I guess I am asking for it. Still, I think that sangiro is doing EVERYONE a justice by including IRs on a general page.My .02!Kia Kaha,PykeNZPF A-2584 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #4 April 22, 2001 Well then feel free to make another poll that doesn't suck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #5 April 22, 2001 yeah, I would have to agree with you skreamer."Sucks" is a little strong!!Cheers,Kia Kaha,PykeNZPF A-2584 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #6 April 22, 2001 Skreamer and Pyke,I gotta' agree with the BOTH of ya'...My only concern was the sensationalism that seems to be taking place with the coverage of the incidents...the only people concerned with the blood and guts issue are the ones that don't seem to care how this affects families and friends of the victims. In my opinion, this is the only thing that needs to be stopped for it is not journalism, but a play to capture attention and sell print...Most of these so called "journalists", whether credible or not, can't even spell properly and don't know the definitions of simple words such as "then" and "than", bringing about questions of their education and knowledge...I am sorry if this offends anyone but I see it in the newspaper every day and wonder just who and how much is being taught in our schools...and for what purpose...I, for one, have a very limited education, only holding an AA in Small Business Management, an AA in Marketing, and 3 computer certificates...This limits me to fields not related to journalism... although I don't always use proper english, I, at least, know it when I see it...and I know sensationalism when I see it, too... FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 April 22, 2001 Hi there,Just my $0.02 on fatalities.Personally, I'd like them off the front page & perhaps an additional (restricted) forum. Something on the lines that only, say, Sangiro, Bill & Alan could make a new post on, but we all could post a response on.That way it doesn't leap out to people from the home page, but it's there & open for discussion (even by "Sucky" people like Skreamer).The point is that Dropzone.Com is many peoples FIRST contact with our sport, and "Perception is reality". For a potential ex-whuffo to search for & visit our homepage only to find our news seems to consist largely of "Absent Friends" must be offputting - certainly "at the margin". Would you continue into a pastime that you were considering if your first research into it consisted of the message "If you're gonna do this you're gonna die just like all these people..."Mike D10270. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #8 April 22, 2001 Quoteeven by "Sucky" people like SkreamerHey! That's it, you've crossed that thin blue line, it's go time! This almost constitutes police brutality - RODNEY KING, RODNEY KING!!! See what I get for paying my taxes? Abuse, that's what I get... Just you wait, MikeD, I'm going to get my rating for CReW, then I'm going to hunt you down then we'll see just how much I suck (ooh, err, that didn't quite come out right )./s[suck me sideways] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattb 0 #9 April 23, 2001 How about using an already established database as opposed to dz.com? Just an idea.[URL]http://www.skydivenet.com/fatalities/[URL] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #10 April 23, 2001 Mike - how about you write a weekly satire column?!! I can almost take some of your posts and use them.... you can just scrub it a bit and...whaaalaaaa...front-page material. C'mon man! Do it. You can rip into as many cultures as you like at a time. Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #11 April 23, 2001 yep i aggree sangiro and mike add some ppl from that country in it (just make sure u dont add ppl that get offended) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #12 April 23, 2001 Hi Skreamer,What do you mean Police Brutality.... I've viewed the "Rodney King Video" and if you play it backwards you can clearly see the police tending to his wounds and helping him to his feet so where do you get the idea of police brutality.Greetings oh Lord & Master,I hd thought of posting (sending?) you something along the lines of "news 'from' the world - a "Mikeist view of world events"... but I'm honestly not sure of keeping up with sufficient current events on a weekly basis. Plus my "satire" leans a little haevily towards use of language, rather than pure satire.OK... maybe an occasional column... But I've gotta think about it, & the news has to be "Mikeable"!!!!!!.Mike D10270. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #13 April 23, 2001 Greeting (again) oh Lord & Master,BTW,In the meantime please feel free to "clean - up", mutilate, etc...(change beyond recgnition) my posts & use them as articles... One condition... I WANT ALL THE CREDIT!!!!!.Mike D10270. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #14 April 23, 2001 sure glad that hoperaty thing is over then :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donna 0 #15 April 23, 2001 I still think the fatality stories should be on the front page. It is important news to me and I'd like to know that a fellow skydiver died and what may be the cause. In some cases we can learn something to make our own skydives safer. I may just read something on there that could help save my life the next weekend. I haven't been reading dropzone.com for that long so I don't know what's been posted in the past. I do agree with others who say that the information should be factual and that we don't need sensationalism. It is one thing for a place like rec.skydiving or even one of these forums to speculate on what may have happened during an incident but I would hope that when it is posted on the front page of this place that it is as accurate as possible. If it is just something from a newspaper article where information could be wrong or speculative then it would be best (imo) to just have a link to that article. I think it is a great idea when the DZ where the incident took place informs us as best they can on what happened, as in the recent camera related death in NC. I still also think that the risks of this sport shouldn't just be glossed over to the whuffo who is thinking of giving it a try. They should know what they are getting into before getting on that plane. Yes, we think it's great and definitely worth it and would like others to share in this wonderful experience but everyone is different and it isn't for everyone.blue ones,D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froggie 0 #16 April 23, 2001 ive gotta agree w/ donna, in part..The news, whether it be good or bad, should be "front webpage" news. If the whuffos stumble on our sight and fail to read beyond the fatalities stories, then theyre not really reaching out to discover all that the skydiving lifestlye has to offer. After a long, fun filled day at the dropzone my mind is usually totally fried. Im reflecting back on the good times had by all. A Reallity check (read: fatality story) brings my tired brain back into focus. Its a constant reminder of what we risk when we jump... or (lately) even board a plane. I do agree though, that the articles are often a messy arrangement of non factual events. The folks here at dropzone.com come from a variety of places, i think that weve got a hell of a lot of areas covered. So how about this.... An article goes up... a jumper local to the fatality hears the whole story, the factual story. This story is debated in these threads.. any conflicting information is sorted out.. When the facts have been brought to the surface, and a true to the event article is written it is made as a link from the front webpage story... So we click on the inital story, read the whuffos view (often distorted) just to find a link to a story that better explains the fatality or injuried story.. Its going to take some work, and none of us knows where were gonna be the one contribuating, but this is a solution to our constant "those damn whuffos dont know shit! "the parachute failed to open?!!?!?!?" complaints. Give it some thought guys, and bossman, what do you think? froggie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #17 April 23, 2001 Froggie,I still agree...to the point where sensationalism occurs...we don't always get things stated right from people who witness things...no two people see the same thing from the same vantage point...and things get distorted this way...so IMHO, I believe before someone states something in here as a fact, the facts should be researched from different angles...the tragic part of this is that most people want to believe the worst and state this as fact before all the research is done...this is an injustice for us all...as for myself, I had rather find out WHY something happened than WHAT happened...just my $0.02FFF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #18 April 23, 2001 I really like Froggie's idea of linking the initial story to the sorted out forum discussion of the incident. And while I agree completely that it's important to hear about the fatalities, both for the reality check and for the info on possible causes that can be put to personal use, I know lots of people who would enjoy skydiving but would probably be put off if their first research turned up 3 fatalities before any of the more fun articles came up.I just don't buy the idea that if they're put off by that, they shouldn't be in the sport anyway. Here's my suggestion: Divide the center section of the front page into two parts. The top part will be for any news other than fatalities, and after some sort of divider, like thumbnails from the photo galleries, the second section would have all of the fatality and injury reports. That way, the bad news isn't hidden, but it's not the very first thing newbies see when they come here for a taste of the sport that drives us wild.Blues, squares,PTiger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #19 April 23, 2001 Tiger's idea seems a good compromise - keep the IRs on the homepage, but just place them discretely. However if the person who dies has been in the sport a really long time or made a really significant contribution, then maybe their death should still be given top billing. I'm not saying a student's death is any less tragic, just that more people in the sport would know the experienced skydiver personally. Also, remember that not all fatalities will be skydiving related. If a well known person in the skydiving community were to die in a more *conventional* manner then surely they should warrant an obituary on the site too.Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #20 April 23, 2001 Duh, took the words out of my mouth.Yeah, most of the "old hand" skydivers, not "posters to DZ.com" send as reliable information as they can to Barry for his database.Blue Skies, Black Death.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #21 April 23, 2001 Hear, hear !! Great suggestion, boss !How about it, Mikey ? I can help chip in for the meds, if that will sweeten the deal.....The PLF GuruBtw, somewhat related to this discussion.........in Parachutist, on the page where they list the new license recipients, they are usually 1 or 2 "Lifetime Members" -- have these people met unfortunate accidents, and if so, were the accidents always incurred while jumping ? I've always been curious about this...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Donna 0 #22 April 23, 2001 Quote Btw, somewhat related to this discussion.........in Parachutist, on the page where they list the new licenserecipients, they are usually 1 or 2 "Lifetime Members" -- have these people met unfortunate accidents, and ifso, were the accidents always incurred while jumping ? I've always been curious about this...... Lifetime members are people who plunk down $700 to sign up as a USPA member for the rest of their lives. They are alive and well and seem to plan on staying that way for quite a while if they are hoping this membership is a good deal. Blue ones,D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #23 April 24, 2001 Thanks for clarifying that, Donna........I like your explanation a hell of a lot more than what I was thinking..........and I don't know where that idea came from -- I'm not a morbid person by nature !The PLF Senator Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
