crewdog 0 #26 July 5, 2001 It will take the rest of your life,because if you are not scared every time you go up it is time to quit.I was told that years ago when I frist started jumping.It has kept my mind on the jumping I am doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #27 July 5, 2001 Quote It's gotten to the point that I've been seriously considering tying a 10-foot length of rope to my ankle, and flaring when it starts dragging the ground, but I feel that would add another set of potential problems to an already dangerous sport..... Not only could that cause problems in freefall, but it would mean that you would be looking STRAIGHT DOWN(the last place you want to be looking on landing) down low.. The only thing I can suggest - as embarassing as it may sound - is taking a radio and having somebody help you out with your height above the ground during landing.. Ever done Skydive U? If so, you know the term 'muscle memory' and how it works.. Well, think of this as a form of 'muscle memory'.. My original comment regarding too large of a canopy was pointed mainly at the women.. It's all too common for a DZ to put a 200lb guy on a 290, and a 120lb woman on a 230 or 260.. The wing loading for the guy would be fine, but for the woman, a bit light in my opinion.. Canopies need to have SOME load on 'em to respond..Quote the act of plf-ing doesn't bother me at all, and (unfortunately) I've become very proficient at it, but every plf has the potential for injury -- no matter how good I am at it, eventually the law of averages is going to bite my ass. And, to me, watching someone come in, flare, and gracefully stand it up is the most awe-inspiring and beautiful sight in the sport (maybe because I CAN'T do it !). If you always have bad landings, you will most certainly be injured eventually.. The problem is certainly something that you need to work out, however you can.. Is your depth perception normal? Ever had it tested? Can you estimate distances pretty well? Do you jump at a DZ that may have additional challenges - such as a high altitude DZ? Uneven landing surface? Tight landing area? Something to consider is a canopy control course.. Such courses are offered at several DZ's, Deland and Perris being two that I am familiar with.. Check around your local area for one.. Also, try having somebody video your landings so that you can study them.. Luckily, I had the benefit of many thousands of landings to my credit prior to ever jumping.. Those landings were in airplanes, but the fundamentals are the same....afterall, a canopy is just a wing.. I have always been a very aggressive canopy pilot as well.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skystorm 0 #28 July 5, 2001 Aviatarr,I've had standup landings with a 230 everytime, but with the 210 I sit on my ass everytime. What am I doing wrong???I weight 61kg and stand 1.61m short. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #29 July 5, 2001 your probably flairing late...if you are doing the butt bounce...Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #30 July 5, 2001 I like talking about fear in skydiving. I think I like the fear itself actually, because it's not so much fear of dying or injury (I check my gear carefully, I trust skydiving more than I do driving a car, if I think about it rationally) - it's more a bubble of excitement, and I can feel the bubble rising up if I really visualise freefall on the way to the DZ or sitting at my desk at work....In fact, I do that to myself from time to time (visualise the freefall) just to experience the thrill.I always get butterflies in the plane....not like I don't want to jump, it's never that...perhaps more to do with being concerned that I'll cock up my exit if it's a formation, or, as you say, Michele, that I might fall out!We have a fast Turbolet and the prop blast is huge - my arm muscles, conversely, are not, and I always feel as if I'm hanging on for dear life for the count! On the other hand, if I'm in the Cessna, or porter or something less powerful, it always feels a lot less scary and a lot more peaceful, at least it does to me, hence the 'fear' diminishes.I wish my brain could compute the fact that 'falling off' isn't the end of the world...(as long as you have a parachute)...Hmmm, it must be some primieval thing to do with control and instincts and stuff.... The act of skydiving, whilst supremely beautiful, is also anti-intuitive, so I think there will always be an element of fear. But the more I jump the more I like that, so designing new (safe) ways to scare myself is maybe part of the fun?Didn't some cheesy armchair pyschology book recommend that we should all 'feel the fear and do it anyway'? Escape the comfort zone because that's where your humanity will rot away before you even notice!E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeekStreak 0 #31 July 5, 2001 Quoteif you are not scared every time you go up it is time to quit.I disagree. There is a difference between fear and awareness of the risks.If you are not aware of the risks every time you go up it is time to quit.1111,GeekStreak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #32 July 5, 2001 I agree with geek on this one.....Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #33 July 5, 2001 QuoteIf you are not aware of the risks every time you go up it is time to quitI would have to agree also.I have not met/jumped with any of the quote-enquote "GODS" (in ability, not attituded) here in the US...being the likes of Olav, Fritz, JC, Luigi, Jim, Norman, Joe, Troy, etc...BUT the one "GOD" I was able to meet/jump with in NZ had a very interesting style that I wish to emulate as I progress in my skydiving career.He was the craziest packer (can pack his 95ft2 in 3 minutes - NO SHIT! but that is another story), most insane person, most daring base jumper, BUT once he got in the plane...the ride up to altitude and the underlying tone of every story he told was SAFETY. I think he is going to be an exception to the rule of "no such thing as old and bold skydivers" So, regardless of what you do in the sport...how you do it...or how long you are in the sport...if you are not SAFE...you are threat to every other jumper. So be safe and have fun...and if you get a little nervous...isn't that the little feeling inside you telling you are still ALIVE!!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,PykeNZPF A - 2584 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #34 July 5, 2001 I've had standup landings with a 230 everytime, but with the 210 I sit on my ass everytime. What am I doing wrong???I weight 61kg and stand 1.61m short. If you sit on every landing on the 210, you are probably flaring too late.. With that light of a wing loading on the 230, it could just be that the descent rate is so slow that a minimal flare does the job.....but with the 210, a bit more forward speed and downward speed, you may not be flaring enough.. Obviously, I can't do anything but speculate if I don't see your landings.. Ask a local experienced jumper or instructor to watch and critique your landings - even video tape them if possible.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicagoskydiver 0 #35 July 5, 2001 I'm just getting to the point where i'm getting my nervousness in the plane under control at 36 jumps. Usually it's when we get up on our knees for jump run that it hits me. I think part of it is the animal survival instinct saying "what the hell are you doing? That ground is really far away!!",part of it is just the anticipation of the jump and hoping I don't screw it up, and the adrenaline starting to flood my brain. Once I'm out the door I'm too caught up in the jump to be nervous. I don't think the nervousness will ever go away completely. You can't get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them to fly in formation. Blue Skies.Hackey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #36 July 5, 2001 QuoteWhat size canopy are you jumping, and at what wing loading?Hiya Aviatrr. I'm jumping an PD170, which is an F-111 canopy. I'm loaded almost exactly 1:1. I've jumped a Sabre 150 several times, and on that one, I feel like I'm getting a little lift at the flare -- then I can't complete the @#$^%@^%# flare! It's like I don't have the arm strength to pull the toggles to full brakes, even though I did a buncha practice flares up high. What this all says to me is that there's some kind of mental thing happening. There are three points on the skydive I have trouble remembering exactly what I did: exit, dumping, and landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msdeva 0 #37 July 5, 2001 Jess, the same thing was happening to me when I was jumping a Sabre 170. I just couldn't stand up a landing unless there was alot of wind. I was out at Lake Elsinore - no winds - and hit the ground really hard. Someone who saw landing asked me why I didn't flare. I said I did - he said it didn't look like it when he looked at the canopy. I told him that I had been practicing flares up high, pullung down on the toggles as far as I possibly could. He asked me is this action stalled the canopy. My answer was, huh? He said if I was pulling down as much as possible, the canopy should have stalled, or at least started to... hmmm.....Turns out my STEERING LINES WERE TOO LONG!!!!!So no matter how much I freakin' flared - my canopy wasn't slowing down.I shortened my lines by 3 inches and haven't had a problem since. A week later I had the confidence to go to my 150 - which I've landed consistently, after knowing how to truly test it out up high - actually lengthened the lines by an inch on this one.This may be the problem. Please work with a J/M, coach, rigger, etc. to figure out if this might be the case!!Deva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinister69 0 #38 July 5, 2001 I still get nervous on the ride up, nothing major, but still there. Once I get to the door I have no problems though.Sinister69 Blue Skieshttp://home.pacbell.net/n1elson1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #39 July 6, 2001 Quote Hiya Aviatrr. I'm jumping an PD170, which is an F-111 canopy. I'm loaded almost exactly 1:1. I've jumped a Sabre 150 several times, and on that one, I feel like I'm getting a little lift at the flare -- then I can't complete the @#$^%@^%# flare! It's like I don't have the arm strength to pull the toggles to full brakes, even though I did a buncha practice flares up high. What this all says to me is that there's some kind of mental thing happening. There are three points on the skydive I have trouble remembering exactly what I did: exit, dumping, and landing. With the PD170, it could be a tired canopy.. How many jumps does it have on it? As previously mentioned, the brake lines could be too short on the PD170 and the Sabre.. When you let the toggles all the way up, the steering line should only be very slightly bowed - but not pulling the tail of the canopy down.. You should not have to move the toggles more than 2-3" before it starts to pull the tail down.. If the lines are bowed too much in full flight, they are too long - have a rigger shorten then.. If they are not bowed at all in full flight, and are pulling the tail down, they are too short - again, have a rigger shorten them..Of course, if the steering lines are too short, the canopy is flying in partial brakes the whole time, therefore not allowing you to have full authority over the flare.. Take a close look at the steering lines on your next jump..Again, my best recommendation is to have an experienced jumper or instructor watch and critique your landings, and if possible, have somebody video them..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skystorm 0 #40 July 6, 2001 if you are doing the butt bounce...It's like : BOUNCE, BBounce, bounce uuurrrrgggghhhh,Get up, Get up!!!!!! Don't let them see your hurt...UUURRRRGGGGGGHHHHH, will I live through this...?But when the next load is booked, I already in the plane again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
