Buying custom gear - the wrong way

[skybytch 259]

After being bitched out in an email, an answering machine message and a phone call by an unhappy customer today over something that we had no control over (he'll have his container in hand 11 weeks from the date it was ordered after originally being told 10-12 weeks... and he's upset...), I thought I'd pass on some tips to you all on how to make sure that your new custom gear will arrive close to when it was promised.
1) If you order through a dealer, DO NOT call or email the manufacturer to request changes, updated delivery dates and/or asking them to put your rig in front of everybody elses. Don't even do it once, much less on a weekly basis; and definitely don't do it after your dealer specifically tells you to stop calling the manufacturer. It's okay to call/email them once or twice if you have questions your dealer can't answer before the order is placed though, but ask the dealer first.
2) Don't call your dealer on a semi-weekly, weekly or even monthly basis asking if it's done yet or how it's coming along. The dealer generally knows only the date that the manufacturer has estimated the item will be completed and is not going to call the manufacturer to find out how far along the rig is for you - that drives the mfrs. nutso; they don't have time to chase down one order just to "see if it's on schedule".
3) If you plan to jump while your new gear is being made, don't sell your old rig until after you get the new one. If it's your first rig, accept the fact that you'll be renting until it arrives if you want to jump while you're waiting.
4) Understand that the estimated completion date the manufacturer gives to the dealer is just that - an estimate. Shit happens and it is not uncommon for those dates to be off by 1-3 weeks in either direction.
5) If you want your new gear on a specific date (like for a vacation, boogie, special jump, etc), order it at least 16 weeks prior to that date. Currently the longest delivery time in the industry is 10-12 weeks, but that does not include shipping time or "shit happened" time. Allowing an extra 4 weeks beyond the "worst case" delivery time should assure that you'll have your new toy for the event you really want it for, barring of course any terrorist attacks or acts of god or the shipping company that might delay it even further.
6) If your gear is delayed beyond the estimated completion date, heave a heavy sigh, sit down with a beer and relax. It will be done when it is done and not before. Stressing over it, calling the dealer and/or mfr., etc, won't do anything other than raise your blood pressure, and in some cases it may cause the mfr.and/or dealer to not be willing to go whatever extra mile might be required to get it to you quickly.
Many jumpers don't realize that the skydiving equipment industry is very much a "cottage" industry. While we think that skydiving equipment is really important, many of their vendors (the companies they buy their hardware, fabric, etc, from) don't agree and it is not uncommon for a manufacturer to be held up waiting for a delivery that is late, only to have the items in the shipment not pass a q.c. check. Most equipment manufacturers have relatively small staffs compared to an equivalent "real world" manufacturer, and that staff usually has to work long and hard to take care of the orders they have.
I hope the above helps everyone understand a little more why sometimes custom gear doesn't come in when promised.
Oh, one more point. Don't hang up on your dealer or the manufacturer while they're trying to explain things. That just pisses them off.
pull and flare,
lisa

[skreamer 1]

Lisa, you should get that numnuts to read this thread from uk.rec before behaving like such a dick. As you will tell this lady conducted herself with style and manners, only posting her story out of sheer frustration. I am cross-posting it here, because maybe your favourite customer will read it and realize that 12 weeks wait for a custom rig is entirely acceptable.
Will

[prost 0]

Come on. We know that rig has been done for two weeks and you are enjoying jumping it every chance you get and laughing everytime he calls to ask about it..............well at least that sounds like what your buyer thinks.

[billvon 2,400]

And whatever you do, don't tell them that you can fix loose leg straps by spraying Pam on them, or they'll get even _more_ pissed off.
-bill von

[Divadiver 0]

Wait, spraying Pam? What does Merrick think about this?
LOL!
Diva

[skybytch 259]

Nah, the only people who'd get all pissed about that are those who'll probably never buy gear anyway...
pull and flare,
lisa

[skreamer 1]

Dammit Diva!!!
That was confidential information relating to Operation Melons you just disclosed!!!
Code Blue boys - Papa bear is in the woods, I say again : Papa bear is in the woods!

[ChrisG 0]

Thats piss poor customer service there skybitch.
Whats wrong with checking on your order to see when
it will be done? That aint that hard to do. Someone may be planning something and wants to know when their new gear will be done. You seem to say that these companys have no idea whats going on in thier shop and that it will be a big hassle to find out. Since most items dont even go into production until 5 or 6 weeks after ordering, what the hells wrong with making a change before thats started.
It sounds like you work at some rig or canopy maker,
Tell me who it is so I'll know to expect people to get mad
there if I have some kind of inquiry, about an order I placed.
I guess you never call your vendors to see when the stuff you ordered will be delivered, cause it dont matter, i'tl get here when it does, why should you bother them.
Every company has to put up with unsatisfied or upset people
no matter how small it is.
Lighten up, youre the one who should lay back , relax, have a beer, and realize customer service is important.
Chris

[jasonriz 0]

Hello. Alright my first post to Dropzone.com and it's (at least to a degree) to offer a dissenting opinion. Your post struck a chord with me at the moment for two specific reasons: 1) I'm currently awaiting the arrival of a Javelin which was supposed to ship last monday and 2) It's saturday, and there's blue skies but I'm sitting in the office working (mostly :) ) instead of jumping so that I can deliver my product (software) as promised.
The part of your post I take issue with is:
> 5) If you want your new gear on a specific date (like for a vacation, boogie, special jump, etc), order it at >east 16 weeks prior to that
>date. Currently the longest delivery time in the industry is 10-12 weeks, but that does not include >shipping time or "shit happened" time.
>Allowing an extra 4 weeks beyond the "worst case" delivery time should assure that you'll have your new >toy for the event you really want
>it for, barring of course any terrorist attacks or acts of god or the shipping company that might delay it >even further.
> 6) If your gear is delayed beyond the estimated completion date, heave a heavy sigh, sit down with a >beer and relax. It will be done when
>it is done and not before. Stressing over it, calling the dealer and/or mfr., etc, won't do anything other >than raise your blood pressure, and
>in some cases it may cause the mfr.and/or dealer to not be willing to go whatever extra mile might be >required to get it to you quickly.
What exactly is it about the skydiving industry that gives its businesses some kind of magic exemption from delivering their product as promised? If I'm paying $1500 for a container, why on Earth should I take an 'It'll come when it comes' attitude? I hold skydiving businesses to the same level of customer service that I hold other businesses to. If something I order comes four weeks late, you can bet that'll factor into my decision to do business with them in the future. Just my two cents.
-Jason

[skymedic 0]

i am sorry bytch, but I have to disagree with you to a point. I agree it isn't a smart thing to call and harass the manufacturers or dealers. But what is is about the skydiving industry that makes them think that it is OK to give substandard service because it is a "cottage industry".
I am not saying all of the dealers and manufacturers are this way but it does seem to me that it is a "oh well, tough luck" type of response if you need something fixed at times on a screwed up order...
I dont know, just my random thoughts and bitches for the day..
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth

[skybytch 259]

Missed my points there chris. Nothing wrong with asking when it will be done (I tell every customer the manufacturer's estimated ship date for what they ordered, if the manufacturer is one that sends those out) and nothing wrong with asking again if it's running late. What doesn't win points with anybody is asking repeatedly after you've been given an answer or acting as if you are the only person in the world who is waiting for their order. If you're told that it will be 10 - 12 weeks when you order, then that's what you should expect and plan for, and you shouldn't expect to have your rig put ahead of 100 others just because you sold your old rig and are "missing out on jumps". If the stated delivery time sounds too long to you, order something with a shorter delivery time. Personally, I'd be ecstatic if I was told 10-12 weeks and I had my item in my hands exactly 11 weeks later, whether it was a piece of skydiving equipment or not.
As for changes, most manufacturers are real good about making one or two changes to the order during the first couple of weeks - basically as long as they haven't started cutting the fabric yet they'll change colors and sizes without a problem. But what's wrong with doing your research and deciding exactly what you want before you place your order? I've dealt with customers who took literally an entire month to figure out their colors before they finally placed the order, and I've spent hours on the phone helping them decide. These customer are actually my favorite to work with because I can be pretty sure that when they get their gear they're going to be very happy with it.
I work for Square 1, btw, and I get far more compliments about our service than I do complaints. Sure, dealing with complaints is part of doing business. I'll do whatever I can to make sure my customers end up happy if they are upset (even if we did everything right). I can't do that when the person hangs up on me.
jason, unfortunately hardware and fabric suppliers do not feel that skydiving equipment is as important as we think it is, and this is responsible for the majority of custom gear delays. Gear manufacturers give out estimated completion dates and estimated delivery times based on their belief that the items they've ordered from their suppliers will arrive on time and up to q.c. standards - when that doesn't happen, orders get delayed. There are a limited number of hardware and fabric vendors, unlike in other industries where the manufacturer has a choice of companies to work with.
You mentioned Javelin - I happen to know that they've been running about 2 weeks behind their estimated completion dates, and it's at least in part because they had at least one shipment of sub-standard hardware come in. So if yours was due on the 5th, I'd expect you'll be waiting 'til the 19th for it to leave Sunpath. But be assured that they are doing everything they can do to get it out to you, just like they are for everyone else who's new toy has been delayed.
pull and flare,
lisa

[mountainman 0]

Quote

I work for Square 1, btw, and I get far more compliments about our service than I do complaints. Sure, dealing with complaints is part of doing business. I'll do whatever I can to make sure my customers end up happy if they are upset (even if we did everything right). I can't do that when the person hangs up on me.

I'll contest to that. We ordered some goggles and they sent the wrong ones. I called Lisa and she was all over it and got us the correct ones just in time. Thanks, Skybytch!!
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click me for a good time

[PhreeZone 15]

I've got to agree with Lisa on this one, while we may think that getting our stuff ASAP is important, in the grand scope of things Skydiving really is'nt that important.
Would you rather have a supplier supply Sunpath, Mirage, RI, whoever, with parts that might be suspect for failure, since they (Sunpath, etc) must have the stuff the next day to get your rig done in 5 weeks, or would you rather have the parts throughly tested and make sure that the parts will last. I don't think that most manufactors keep huge inventories of parts in stock hoping that they will use them one day, I'd think they would place small orders to vendors that have high quality standerds and keep a very small inventory them selfs. This way when reject hardware or material is discovered, there is very little impact on the inventory. Its easier to write off 25 RW-8 connectors as bad then it is to write off 2500. An error like that would proabally bankrupt a lot of companies.
Just keep in mind, time waiting on a rig, canopy, whatever is a small price to pay to make sure that the product has the quality to save your life after you leave the plane.
A rainy day at the DZ is better then a Sunny day at work

[mountainman 0]

Quote

I've got to agree with Lisa on this one, while we may think that getting our stuff ASAP is important, in the grand scope of things Skydiving really is'nt that important.

I dont think this is the point. I think they are talking about the fact that every other industry in the world is about keeping it quick and efficient. HOWEVER....

Quote

Just keep in mind, time waiting on a rig, canopy, whatever is a small price to pay to make sure that the product has the quality to save your life after you leave the plane.

Well said....which is why I wont disagree with you in the end. I dont mind waiting for awhile extra while they get my harness on the container NICE AND TIGHT!! --------------
click me for a good time

[billvon 2,400]

>What exactly is it about the skydiving industry that gives its businesses some kind of magic exemption from delivering
>their product as promised? If I'm paying $1500 for a container, why on Earth should I take an 'It'll come when it comes'
> attitude? I hold skydiving businesses to the same level of customer service that I hold other businesses to. If something
>I order comes four weeks late, you can bet that'll factor into my decision to do business with them in the future. Just my two cents.
Because, at least to me, skydiving just isn't a business. I don't go to the dropzones that deliver the maximum jumps for the minimum money; I go to drop zones that I like, that have a good attitude towards experienced jumpers, safety and student training, and where I can jump with my friends.
When I order gear, similarly, I don't order from a faceless business. I order from friends of mine. I sometimes use Square One. I know most of the people that work there, and many are good friends of mine - people I jump with, go to dinner with, go through AFF JCC's with. Sometimes I use Gravity Gear - I've known Bonnie for ten years now, and I helped her start her business. Even the components I order don't come from nameless companies. They come from people I've worked with, given rides to, gotten rides from, argued with, taught next to, and learned from. I like the way this works out. I could care less if CompUSA makes money off my purchase of a PC, but when I buy stuff from Gravity Gear, I know the money is going to Bonnie and Mattias and Jet, and I do care about that.
Maybe the future of skydiving gear suppliers belongs to the most competitive business, the one who can out-compete the others on price or service or size of ads. I hope that's not the case. I prefer ordering my gear from Kate and Tony, George, Sandy, Cliff and John - even if I don't get the same delivery time, discount prices or flashy ads I get from a discount computer store.
-bill von

[skymedic 0]

I could care less about prices...I will gladly pay more to get on time and good customer service...
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth