~Coach Jumps~

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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Our DZ makes AFF and S/L grads do coach jumps with coaches that cost $70 (2 slots, rental and $ for the coach) each and you need to do 10.

Here at Raeford, students get the benefit of making those same types of jumps at a total cost of $36 per. (that's just the two jump tickets; them and the "I") Here, SL progression still reigns supreme, and all jumps from the first "30 second delay" until completion of the A-license are from 13,000 feet out of the otter. With the new ISP, there is absolutely no difference in the quality of skydiver produced by one training method over another, as they all must check the same blocks on their cards. Even if one gets all his blocks checked before another, they are both still paying for that extra slot until their 20th jump in most cases.
As far as respecting the fact that some of these people are making their living by performing this coach function, That choice is entirely up to them. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who don't have sense enough to move to a more lucrative market in order to make ends meet. That, or get some REAL ratings so they can earn their money in a more traditional manner. In my opinion the Coach rating is there for those jumpers working their way up the chain and gaining experience for those more advanced ratings. That being said, those people ought not be charging anything more than their slot for that privilege. Before we allow any of our new "coaches" (formerly "jumpmasters") to fly with students, we take them up and evaluate them. If they suck, they are not going to get to do the job. We have forbidden several of these people from jumping with our students due to lack of skill.
Off topic, but this goes back to the argument that occasionally pops up about supporting your local packing concession; give me a break! In my opinion, it is only the filthy rich and the tremendously busy jumpers who should even contemplate paying a packer. Confidence in one's ability should be paramount in this sport. If a packer can eek out a living on a dropzone, then good for him, but don't ask me to feel bad for him when he can't convince able bodied jumpers to give up their hard-earned money for something they can do themselves in six minutes. At Raeford, there are some packers who work for the civilian student training concession; RSS. Those guys pack all the tandems, student gear (included in the cost of rental), and staff gear so that those Instructors can turn around and get back in the air. Also, there are contract packers that do all the chutes for the Golden Knights competition teams. This, so that those guys can get straight back up in the air and knock out their ten or 12 jumps a day in preparation for their next meet. At the military clubs, we do all the work ourselves and do not get paid one red cent. We teach our students to be proactive and help others. In exchange for that, we often times get our ratings paid for by the activity, plus we get the benefit of making plenty of free jumps every time our students get to "altitude".
My webpage HERE

[RemiAndKaren 0]

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it is only the filthy rich and the tremendously busy jumpers who should even contemplate paying a packer

dont forget us lazy gits! (damm, thinking about it, it must be 4 or 5 years since I got my rig packed by a packer...)
I must say, when going to big boogies and when its really hot, its nice to skip the odd packjob...
Remi
Muff 914

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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big boogies...

Another exception I would make; good point. While I still do all my own packing at boogies, I DO get conned into packing for my dad and some others at Quincy.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[skymama 35]

I jump at a well known dz, with a freefly school, but I've never yet used their services. There hasn't been an instance yet where I've been turned down when I asked for advice, and that includes the guy who runs the school, and he's never given anyone a problem for helping me as far as I know. All of my freeflying lessons have come from regular guys, and I have paid for a few slots, but not many. They tell me that it helps them with their skills to jump with a person who might be all over the place in the air. But, now that I am getting close to wanting to really nail my headdown, I will probably invest the money in a coach for that.
Most of the people I jump with are ones that come up to me and ask if I want to jump, not the other way around. I told one guy that I felt like it was a wasted jump for him to jump with a low timer like myself. He told me that first, no skydive is a wasted skydive, and second, he's making an investment in me, because if he helps me to become a good skydiver, then there will be another local person around for him to jump with. Plus, he added that it's fun for him to watch someone go through the learning curve.
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[freeflir29 0]

"I jump with are ones that come up to me and ask if I want to jump"
That's just cause you're a hottie! "and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[Slappie 9]

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Plus, he added that it's fun for him to watch someone go through the learning curve.

He forgot to add watch your boobies in freefall!!
My New Website with 24hr Chat

[skymama 35]

LOL! So, is that why he wanted to do that "cat" position on a belly dive too?
C'mon, you guys are telling me you don't get the same kind of help? It can't ALL be about boobies!
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[freeflir29 0]

Dammitt.....I didn't want to give away the guys secrets....He had such a good thing going! SSSSHHHHHHH...."and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[Slappie 9]

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It can't ALL be about boobies!

Why not? I bet if I was a woman with nice boobs I'd get all the coach jumps I wanted for free too!! I'd just wear a real skimpy outfit under my jumpsuit... Hell if I was a COACH I'd like to coach women too....
My New Website with 24hr Chat

[riggerrob 563]

Back in the "good old days", POPS "gave back to the sport" by coaching junior jumpers for free. Quantity and quality of coaching varied widely depending upon how big your boobs were and how many recreational drugs you provided for senior jumpers. Since my boobs have always been small and my military carreer interferred with buying the better recreational drugs, few senior jumpers offered to coach me for free. I was told to turn style by myself until "somehow magically" I learned to dock softly on a 10-way.
Back in the "good old days" I wasted hundreds of jumps struggling to master skills that I can now teach to junior jumpers in a dozen jumps.
Which method is more expensive?
Quality of coaching also varied widely back in the 1980s. For example, the only time I bought a jump ticket for a CReW coach, he released me at 800', on the wrong side of the runway with half a canopy!
Somewhere along the way, POPS burned out and either quit coaching or quit jumping all together. Many POPS just leaned back and allowed paid professionals to do everything related to junior jumpers until those junior jumpers could do consistent 4-way.
Much of the recent debate on this thread seems to be about the quality of coaching. These days, in the United States, anyone can call themselves a coach. Until some form of coaching certification by USPA, Skydive University or the Atmosphere Dolphin dudes is required by DZOs, quality will still be inconsistent.
DZOs are trying to save junior jumpers money by only sending them up with "coaches" who know enough to pass on skills.
Becoming a coach involves not merely making X-number of hundred jumps. Becoming a coach involves first mastering the skill you are trying to teach, then becoming so good at flying close to a junior jumper that proximity is no longer a conscious effort and you can devote all your attention to skill analysis. You also have to be able to explain a skill in terms that a junior jumper can grasp.
Finally, a coach has to lead by example. There is no point in a coach telling a jumior jumper to fly straight in landing approaches when the coach is doing radical low-altitude toggle hooks.
Actions speak louder than words.
Becoming a good coach is a life-long process.
You should try to learn a little bit from everyone you jump with.
For example, when I had 800 jumps, a French AFF student with 6 jumps told me how to do French Rolls. I learned the technique and passed it on to North American jumpers.
Sorry for the soap box.
I just started a Canadian National Coach Certification Program Level 2 Theory Course and am full of their gospel.

[skreamer 1]

Hi Geoff
Unfortunately the rules did change so the coaching is only available up till FF1 level. (that said I still think it is an excellent deal)
Will

[flash 0]

When i first started in this sport everybody helped everybody for the love of it and now it seems that it's a money issue now. What happened to the "love". Has everyone forgot about that? There are still a few real people out there that will still help others out. I know i do every chance i get at no "charge" to anyone. I try to do videos with who ever i jump with just for the fun and love of it and never ask for anything in return, I don't think there is anything wrong with coach jumps but when the person charging for the coached jump isn't that great to begin with ,then it's a waste of money. Well i guess i'll stick with learning on my own or with those crazy jumpers (jim, gregg and the crew). It's more fun that way. Jeff

[gemini 0]

Amen Jeff. We do it because we love the sport, like most of the people, and don't want others to make the mistakes we made.
Gemini
... Fear? Fear is riding the plane down ...

[skymedic 0]

Funny thing is Andrea....I have been at that particular DZ....I have only once had someone come up to me to ask to jump...and he was some german guy staying there for a month..not even a regular....and well you know what happened onthat jump.....I honestly think the only reason that happens to you is your boobies....or that your a hottie too.
I am just some schmoe.....now when I go to Sebastian...there are a constant flow of people who want to jump...from guys with 6,000 skydives to guys with 50......and all of them refuse for me to pay for a skydive......all they want is a beer.....
well Anne I must say I am just as pissed off about this "coach" thing as you are.....but I also agree with my fellow eastern philosapher......in that the two must be able to co-exist....
Marc
Res Firma Mitescere Nescite

[freeflir29 0]

"co-exist"
Co-existanceism is futile.....We must defeat the rebel force before they cross the river.......
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[OATSF14 0]

I haven't really paid much attention to this Coach stuff. From what I'm hearing I sense good and bad. I drove my baby boy 1237 miles this summer so he could make an underage Tandem. (His 15th birthday present) Now he is scouring anything to do with skydiving picking his future rig, canopy, etc... Of course Dad will foot the bill for that. Dad will also pay for what I consider to be the SAFEST mode of learning for this future freeflyer. I remember so many stupid things I did as a student. (T-10s, PCs, early squares) The stupid things were usually in the company of other low time jumpers. I fully believe that Coached jumps with a qualified coach will be extremely beneficial. I also believe that a huge part of this sport is the comaraderie that is formed between high time and low time jumpers. My boy had the pleasure of meeting Jason Peters this past summer. Even though Robert, (my boy) was not jumping, Jason spent over 30 minutes one afternoon just shooting the breeze with him about freeflying, Voodoos, cameras, etc....This unsolicited, unsold expertise must continue or this sport will suck. We never stop learning. If you are worth it I will pay for the Coaching. I detest being required to do so.

[Jabeln79 0]

At my DZ. I think almost everyjump turns into a coach jump..I am trying to do a lot of big ways and there is always some one giving me advice helping me out... THey do it just for the love of the sport not to make any money they just want to jump and most of the people helping hae jump #,s into the 1000+range.. I am about to start learning Freeflying and there are people already coming up to me asking to help me out i dont even have to ask them... and there just doing it to jump....