drugs and Pilots/Instructors

[lazerq3 0]

Auuuuuuuhhhhhhhh yeah...................you wanna repeat that in english now. After reading that I feel like I'm on an extasy trip But I'll take your word on it!!
jason

[skymedic 0]

Quote

says who?

Considering all three of the pilots at Sebastian are good friends of mine...and I tended to hang out with my instructors too....now what they did once they got home is a different story....BUT...I am a trained medical prof. and can tell when someone has been rolling or any other things...just by tell tale signs I have picked up over the past 10 years...thats who says WHO!!!!!!!
marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"

[Emma 0]

Quote

I dont care whhat any of you say it is a fact that DRUGS are not good for you. Maybe in specail medical casese under a controlled enviremnet but other than tht there is no debate. you may have an opionion that coke and herion , what ever can be good in its what ever form but come on people your not that dumb are you. Dont try to tell me that doing any kind of drug is benifcail to your boidy Unless it is a very specail case like I mentioned before!!! Am I saying dont do drugs.....no ....do what you want ...And when it comes to alcohol...studies have show that a glass of wine or an 8 oz beer is actually good for the body!!!!!

I don't 'do' drugs and I'm not saying they're good for you.
I'm just pointing out that it is a fact that alcohol has killed far more people than its less 'socially acceptably' brethren, what you call 'real' drugs. To make a distinction and simply say 'ALL DRUGS ARE BAD' is, imho, ill-informed, hypocritical and bloody dangerous. It doesn't work, because, like alcohol, drugs can be fun....They can also be dangeous, JUST LIKE ALCOHOL CAN. And because of this overly-simplistic statement, 'ALL DRUGS ARE BAD', kids try, say, some grass, realise it's pretty harmless and a good laugh, and develop a sceptical cynicism to anything else they hear from the anti-drugs lobby. Just saying 'don't do drugs' louder and louder doesn't work. Proper education about realistic dangers of both drugs, alcohol and cigarettes might. But we don't see that, instead we have hysterical, ignorant scare-mongering, borne out of fear.
To say, as you do, 'there is no debate' is not helpful. Of course there is a debate. As Chickenhawk says, it is usually the effects of social exclusion and the illegality of drugs that actually leads to death - ie, extortionate prices, association with 'the underworld' (ahem!) and cutting them with bad-ass rubbish.
Once again (as no doubt I will be flamed for this) I do NOT do drugs and I don't advocate doing them. I am, however, a bit of a piss-head, probably because alcohol is socially-accpetable and thus available in pubs, bars and clubs the world over. I also know more people hurt themselves, make themselves ill and become addicted to booze than to any drugs. Sorry if you can't seem to understand this, however I feel selecting 'certain' stimulants and saying they're ok and others aren't, is one of society's deepest hypocrisies.

[DrunknMunk 0]

Well said

[Phil 0]

Quote

I am, however, a bit of a piss-head, probably because alcohol is socially-accpetable and thus available in pubs, bars and clubs the world over

I have to agree with you on that Emma. if I come to think of it, then I'm almost tempted to bring out the following theory:
If the now still illegal drugs (eg Grass) would be legalized and the government and the large industries would make money on it. Would there still be the big stink about it or would the main focus be how to optimise profits?
C U
Phil

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Quote

I am, however, a bit of a piss-head, probably because alcohol is socially-accpetable and thus available in pubs, bars and clubs the world over
-------------------------------------
I have to agree with you on that Emma

I too have to agree.. Emma is a piss-head.
Remi
Muff 914

[skreamer 1]

Quote

I dont care whhat any of you say it is a fact that DRUGS are not good for you.

Sure, as long as you include alcohol and nicotine in that (hell, why not throw in caffeine as well!). Alcohol kills more people than ANY other drug, so if me and my mates light one up in the evening (OFF the DZ) I don't see how that is anybody elses business. Anyway, doob is practically legal here - so it really is not as big a deal here as it is in the states. BTW putting grass in the same category as cocaine and heroin is phuqin ridiculous!!!
Will

[apoil 0]

Quote

Yeah I gotta agree with DON here....I dont care whhat any of you say it is a fact that DRUGS are not good for you. Maybe in specail medical casese under a controlled enviremnet but other than tht there is no debate

That's not what don said.
This is just an extremely foolish narrow minded view on your part.
You don't even know what constitutes a drug.
Some drugs are illegal, some are controlled, some are readily available.
In all three instances there are some that are quite harmful, some that are hardly any more harmful than anything else you might eat, and some that should be used with caution.
You are just parroting the standard line you've been fed:
"drugs are bad.. mmmkay?"

[Strynx 0]

BTW putting grass in the same category as cocaine and heroin is phuqin ridiculous!!!
I Have to agree on this one, Sure drugs are drugs but this analogy is like comparing a shoot of booze with a shoot of liqueur. The potency is alot diff. If i were to be with a JM or JP that's been Partyin all night on a sunrise load i would'nt feel safe.
Drunk:
E's in North America are mostly MDA now and mgf by Bickers. You also find diff substance in a pill like PCP and MET so the pill affects other area than serotenine. The problem with 5HTP is that if you rave every weekend and suddenly stop you'll still need it to keep a somewath reasonable serotenine level. MDMA/MDA CAN have direct effect on your bain up to 48 hrs after consomption. (I'll try to find the article related to that) The bottom line is that if you've been partyin all night your reaction time will be ALOT slower. Now who would like to have a brainfart in a critical situation the day after a mad party?
P.L.U.R.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

The idea that herion is a one shot killa is bull,

H can kill in just one dose. In 1994 heroin killed a very close friend of mine, when he was just experimenting, apparently. He wasn't a regular user or addict. He just got a batch that was unusually pure. And I guess he tried it when no one else was around.
Speed Racer
"My God! It's full of stars!"

[Strynx 0]

That's sad [sad] Speed. One of my friend was in the Hospital for a few months after taking some bad pills at rave. I decided after that, That it was time for me to "retire". Anyway Skydiving is much better drug.P.L.U.R.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Quote

And when it comes to alcohol...studies have show that a glass of wine or an 8 oz beer

not sure where you've got that one jason, but its not the alcool in wine or beer that is believed to have benefits.
Remi
Muff 914

[JDBoston 0]

Weed, I have no issue with. Hell, I smoked just last night. But I would not extend the "it's-not-that-bad" argument to ecstasy or heroin or coke or crystal meth etc. These are strong drugs with strong effects, and the people who do them habitually are fucking themselves up. Period.
I'd like to see this research that shows that heroin addicts don't lead dysfunctional lives. I've never known someone who regularly did hard drugs and WASN'T dysfunctional. And it has nothing to do with them not being able to get pure shit. It has to do with the fact that that particular category of drugs FUCKS WITH YOUR BRAIN.
Joe

[Emma 0]

Quote

These are strong drugs with strong effects, and the people who do them habitually are fucking themselves up. Period.

People who use alcohol habitually also fuck themselves up. Cirrhosis of the liver, anyone? George Best? Inability to get out of bed and do a proper day's work because of your hangover? Failed relationships? Violent behaviour? I see where you're coming from but I think a sense of balance is what's required. If you have an addictive personality you'll struggle with booze, pills, chang or glue...whatever is available and suits your lifestyle. I think there is an insidious acceptance of drinking to excess, almost an attitude of 'if you don't get pissed up you're boring' - this pervades huge portions of society (or is it just my DZ? Hmmm...) And yet, the same people who down pint after pint and spend Saturday in bed recovering, look on pill-takers as 'druggies' . What utter bollocks. It's just your social conditioning.
Plus, I am yet to see a raver punch another raver whilst on pills, yet I've seen plenty of blood spillt at pub closing time.
There is evidence* that incidences of football hooliganism declined SIGNIFICANTLY in the UK in direct correspondence withe widespread us of ecstasy in the late 80s and early 90s.
(* sorry I don't know where to look for it, however an interesting book is 'Altered States' which is fairly objective, as opposed to something like High Times. Unfortunately, to go to the effort of reading stuff like this requires an open mind; a rarity when the subject of drugs comes up.)

Quote

I've never known someone who regularly did hard drugs and WASN'T dysfunctional. And it has nothing to do with them not being able to get pure shit. It has to do with the fact that that particular category of drugs FUCKS WITH YOUR BRAIN.

I have a friend who injects heroin every day and yet doesn't exhibit any signs of being 'dysfunctional', however the hell you want to define that. He can afford it so it doesn't really cause him a problem. He refers to it as 'taking my medicine'. He is addicted, yes, but not exposed to a lot of the dangers of its use.
I also have several friends who do coke, es or speed every weekend and are on £40k plus-a-year jobs. Some of them actually have relationships and manage to wash their hair and clean their teeth every day. Amazing! This is why I struggle to believe 'DRUGS FUCK YOU UP. PERIOD'. It just doesn't fit with what I know. Yes, they do fuck with your brain, and ...uh...people find it...fun....You just have to know when to stop. Like you do with ALCOHOL.
I'm not saying drugs are a good thing, and they do kill people. But so does alcohol, so do cars, so do bumble bees, peanuts and SKYDIVING.

[JDBoston 0]

Fair points. I do think the drugs I mentioned hijack people's ability to "know when to stop," based on people I've known. It's easier to know what "enough" is with booze, which is also less physically addictive.
Killing people wasn't my issue. Life kills people. And impact-on-society-wise, alcohol and tobacco are clearly the two worst drugs out there.
My issue is with drugs that take away people's ability to perceive reality. I've had close friends who got into some of this stuff and the effects were not as mild as you describe. But everyone has a different set of friends with different experiences. Your friends sound very fortunate. Hopefully they'll still be unaffected after 10-20 years.
Joe

[Emma 0]

Quote

My issue is with drugs that take away people's ability to perceive reality. I've had close friends who got into some of this stuff and the effects were not as mild as you describe.

I never said they had mild effects. I actually said 'they do fuck with your brain'. Skydiving (or flying) after a druggy bender is definitely a bad idea. I also happen to think skydiving after a drinking bender is not the wisest move.
It's not what I was saying. I'm just concerned with the disctinction you make between drugs and alcohol. If anything, I would say people are probably more clear-headed after certain Class As than they after lots of vodka. Think back to all those things you've done whilst pissed....judgement severely impaired, no?
Anyway, I apprecaite your comments. I expect my friends will grow out of drugs, just as many people do out of excessive drinking.

[riggerrob 561]

Drug laws are bad.
Canadian drug laws are so unhealthy that I quit reading them.
I also quit doing most drugs. Now the only addictive drug I do is caffeine.

[skreamer 1]

Quote

I also happen to think skydiving after a drinking bender is not the wisest move.

Sheeeaaaah, right..... if you mean the morning AFTER a drinking bender, then the whole of Hinton (especially the floozies) has just been grounded!

[skreamer 1]

Oh yes, I do endorphins most evenings every week - is that bad???

[JDBoston 0]

Grow out of excessive drinking? Now there's a depressing thought.... yeah, I think I just have a sore spot around some of the more psychoactive stuff and the effect it has on people's personalities and mental states over a length of time.
You can definitely sign me up for the "not-drunk-or-hungover pilot load."
BS,
Joe

[SkyDekker 1,150]

I think I am going to have to pipe in here with my $0.02. Since I grew up in Holland, with a very open-minded drug policy, I would like to think that I have a fairly liberal view of drugs. In Holland, they have two classification for drugs, they are either hard-drugs or soft-drugs. Weed and mushroom would be examples of soft-drugs while Coke, Heroin Extacy are examples of hard-drugs.
Soft-drugs are condoned in Holland, they are certainly NOT legal as most people seem to think, but that is just a side note. I think that in most cases these soft-drugs are not necessarily bad for you. Smoking a joint from time to time is about as bad for you as drinking a couple of beers from time to time. I think the problem arises when it goes from recreational use to abuse, wether it be alcohol, weed or any other mind altering substance. Personally, I would prefer not to be in askydiving, flying or for that matetr driving situation with someone who is under the influence, be it drunk or stoned. The question in this case is not whether weed is bad for you, the fact is that you react slower and act differently while under the influence. If you are one of those people who think that it doesn't affect yuo, that you can act and react normally while stoned, damn, you better go buy your casket now.
Hard drugs, like coke, heroine, speed, extacy etc etc have a definite addictive side to them. Some are more physically addictive, some are more mentally addictive, but the far majority of people who try them usually end up being addicted to them. The effcts on the body also usually tend to be more severe than the "softer" drugs.
I think in most cases the problem may not be the drug itself. I think it is the side effects these addictions bring with them. Usually people end up having a bigger need than they can afford, or there ahbit starts to interfere with work, or relationships. And i think that goes for all drugs, incl alcohol. Like I said before, the problem starts when recreational use turns into abuse. I think that problem is far more likely when hard-drugs are involved. And yes I realize there are exceptions to any and everything.
In the end I prefer to be as safe as possible when it comes to skydiving. I think that any mind and state altering substance interferes with that principle. Since it takes the body roughly 1 hour to break down one dose of alcohol, if you have 12 beers starting at 8 pm, you are still drunk around 9 am the next morning. Think about that the next time you are on that first load on Sunday morning...........
Once again, just my $0.02
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

[Emma 0]

Quote

if you mean the morning AFTER a drinking bender, then the whole of Hinton (especially the floozies) has just been grounded!

uh yeh...I know. In case you didn't realise, I aint the wisest person...But one can have goals!

[chickenhawk420 0]

Sorry to hear about that, what i was saying is that if people new what purity it was, they would know how much they were taking. The problem is along the supply line it gets cut, maybe goes through purer than normal and the dealer (will probably have an idea) but the user wont. Just the way i see it
Im okay though only smoke cheba, drink and the big killer cigrettes. So glad englands more relaxed.
Emma - "Underworld" watever, been watching to many flics! Normal people more like. Police are apart of it aswell.
Skreamer- Nicley put Would like to say more but i got a friend to see, weed to smoke and games to play. TFI Frday

[Emma 0]

'Underworld' - whatever, I was taking the piss!
Although there are some seedy characters around, I fully acknowledge a lot of so-called 'dealers' are just people sorting out their friends...