Simplified Emergency Procedures

[UnusualAttitude 0]

So, I've been through a few training programs and I've watched a few DVD's, and I've talked to a lot of people. About as many as you might expect for someone with 80 or so jumps who is safety-conscious.

I seem to have come to the conclusion that there really only is one emergency procedure you have to think about.

Basically, it goes like this:

1. You pull your main.

2. If your parachute doesn't open, or it opens but everything is not just like normal (unless it's line twists, which you should try to kick out), proceed to step 3, or directly to step 4.

3. (Optional) Try to fix the malfunction for a little bit, if you think you have time. If you can't, proceed to step 4.

4. Cut away if above 1000ft, then pull the reserve

Now, since step 3 is optional, and often not even recommended for people with low jump numbers, it seems to me that it might make sense to just ignore it completely.

In other words, if something isn't right, no matter WHAT it is, cut away, then pull the reserve.

Now, here's what I'd like to debate. I've heard in various places that some people advocate procedures other than this, usually something like:

'In certain situations (pilot chute in tow), don't cut away, just pull the reserve."

What do you guys think?

Should we be worried about alternate emergency procedures, depending on the specific situation?

Or, in the name of simplicity and muscle memory, is the safest thing to do to simply and reflexively, always cut away then pull the reserve, if something isn't right? (the only exception to this being line twists, which should be tried to be kicked out a little first)

More specifically, please let me know if you think this above bold procedure makes the most sense for safety. On the other hand, if you think that there are emergencies which we shouldn't automatically deal with by "cutaway then pull reserve", then what are they, and why?

[councilman24 36]

Read the SIM for the two alternative procedures. Cutaway for a PC in tow or total malfunction or don't. It is an individual choice.

If I had cutaway from a PC in tow I WOULD BE DEAD.

I had a pc in tow, didn't take the time to cutaway, and had canopies spreading above me as I went into the trees. IF I had taken time to cutaway I would have bounced. No doubt. The way is was the canopies (yes both came out and were opening clear of each other) were still inflating when I hit the trees and ended up suspended about 40' up.


I investigated a fatality as S&TA at our DZ. It was a traveling jumper from the UK. He stopped by, rented a rig, went up to make a solo and went in with both main and reserve still in the container. The main PC was easily extracted and appeared to be fully functional. The reserve loops broke on impact and the reserve handle was out of the pocket but was not pulled prior to impact. The cutaway handle was missing and was NEVER found in spite of three searches. In reviewing his log book I found that he was working on freestyle moves (not the same as freeflying) but was having trouble losing stability. The rig he rented was identical in operation as those he had been using in the UK. I wasn't there for the check out but the jumpmaster who did it was our most through and meticulous jumpmaster.

I believe this jumper was trying freefall maneuvers, lost stability and/or altitude awareness, realized he was low, and decided to open his reserve. I believe that he initiated his ONE PROCEDURE FOR EVERYTHING emergency procedure and pulled his cutaway handle prior to pulling his reserve. In this case he spent the rest of his life pulling the ONLY handle that wouldn't save his life. (Rig had no AAD, this was before they were common)

These are two cases where cutting away would have been and may have been fatal. I know of others that cutting away may have made a fatal difference. During a PC in tow you are still in freefall, already lower than your intended opening altitude and have little time to deal with it. I maintain it's time to get something out and then deal with the second canopy if necessary. There has been a lot of testing trying to get to canopies deploying to interfere with each other. The army was doing some of the testing. The only time they interfered during opening was once when on bag got caught directly below and on the slider of the first canopy. PD did a lot of testing on dealing with two out. Go to their website to read the document.

In addition, depending on the rig and it's condition, cutting away may release the main risers into the air stream behind your back. This has caused fatalities. This may not be probable on a very new rig there are plenty of rigs still in the air where this may happen.

Your argument is the other side. One procedure for everything and no decisions to make. Many people make this decision. I maintain if you practice these procedures and make the decisions on the GROUND before your in the air it is easy to react to the situation appropriatley.

If you really want to simplify emergency procedures and will cutaway from ANY situation first you can get a SOS system where one handle is BOTH the cutway handle and the reserve ripcord. We used this for out student rigs. One reaction to any malfunction, pull the red (taped red) handle.

There are many people who chose your proposed option, cutaway first. And thats fine. I've given you the reasons I don't. When I train people I give them both procedures and both arguments and let them decide.

I'm glad your thinking about it, but be sure you get all sides of the issue. An online forum is not the best place to consider and debate this. You should read the SIM line for line first, talk to your instructors/mentors, and maybe then come for the advice of strangers.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[skr 1]

I don't see a one size fits all clear cut answer.

And the best answer for a particular person
at a particular stage may need updating at
a later stage, when they know more about
themselves, and start doing new activities,
and realize more ways that things can go
wrong.

So it seems like the best idea is to talk to
knowledgeable people and come up with
a current set of plans, and then practice
them until you can do them standing on
your head in a cold shower with the ground
screaming at you and it's cold and your
goggles are covered with snot and you
can't see and ...


And then keep your eye out for new ideas
and viewpoints.

My plans change over time as I learn about
or think of new ideas or possibilities.


I probably don't practice as often as I'm
officially supposed to, but there is one
thing I do drill into my head, and I learned
it late in the game, like 10 years ago.

It's the student thing of try once, try twice
and then ... take care of business.

I practice that one because I know I'm
susceptible to getting carried away trying
to fix something.


This is a good question.

Skr

[UnusualAttitude 0]

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...
If I had cutaway from a PC in tow I WOULD BE DEAD.
...

Glad you're OK! Thanks for your feedback!

So, I see a good argument here for the idea that if you're too low, cutting away could waste valuable time. I'll buy that. I know there is an officially recommended "do not cut away below" altitude of 1,000 feet. Do you agree with this?

If so, what about this:

If below 1,000, don't even think about cutting away, just pull reserve.

If above 1,000, always cut away and pull the reserve.

And maybe for good measure:

If you feel like you lost altitude awareness and you MIGHT be below 1,000, don't even think about cutting away, just pull reserve.

But, now let's say that you're well above this. You pulled high-ish. You're at 3,000 feet...and your canopy isn't doing what it should. Is there ever a reason to not cut away before pulling the reserve?

P.S. I agree that the online forum isn't the best place to get the definitive solution to this. But, it is a great way to get opinions of those you might not normally have been able to ask in real life :)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

It's a matter of contention.

Some of us believe that you should pull one handle or all three and not waste time trying to decide whether a high speed malfunction is a pilot chute in tow, bag lock, or something else.

Other people believe that cutting away takes too much time.

Of course, the timing is only critical once you've made the series of mistakes which ends with you being low with nothing out. Putting some thought into avoiding those situations and reassessing once you've found yourself low would be prudent.

[airtwardo 6]

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In addition, depending on the rig and it's condition, cutting away may release the reserve risers into the air stream behind your back.

Just to clarify Terry, you do mean MAIN risers don't you?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[councilman24 36]

Correction made,

Damn you actually read all that?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

It's too late for me to quite follow your logic.

The 1000' cutaway limit is in general for partial malfunctions. For a PC in tow if you take the time to figure out if your at 1000' yet you'll probably hit the ground first. Remember you're still in freefall and 5 seconds till impact. And your reserve may need 3 of those to open!

Decisions for partial malfunctions become different and apply to your paragraph

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But, now let's say that you're well above this. You pulled high-ish. You're at 3,000 feet...and your canopy isn't doing what it should. Is there ever a reason to not cut away before pulling the reserve?

Your question is there one procedure for everything. I maintain no. Other maintain yes. It may be a mistake that gets you too low to have time to cutaway. Or it could be that your comfortable getting out at 2000' or opening your container at 2000' at terminal, the minimum for D license. At terminal 10 - 12 seconds, from exit 17-19 seconds. At 2000' you start you main deployment. You wait or watch and realize that it isn't working. You recognize that it's a PC in tow. Is it faster to do one procedure including cutting away, or to chose your procedure, skip the cutaway and pull your reserve, being ready for to deal with the main if it comes out? Remember there are two reasons to cutaway from a PC in tow. One is to use one procedure and not have to make a choice and the second is so the main can leave if the PC in tow clears when you pull the reserve. I personnally don't agree with either.

For ME it's faster to choose procedures than to locate the cutaway handle and pull it prior to pulling the reserve.

So no, I do not see one procedure fits all. Especially if your making altitude decisions because now your not one procedure and they are varying not only on the malfunction but on the altitude. When things are slow under a partial you have time to make choices.

There is no concensus on this issue. That's why there are two procedures in the SIM. Some people make the choice to do one procedure. That's fine! As long as you make the decision on the ground.

And people do make mistakes. Mine case included a couple. The fatality I investigated may have included a couple. Does that mean you should start emergency procedures everytime with a handle that won't save your life? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong. I'm cutting away from partials and hopefully streamers if I think I have time. And have 3 live cutaways in 27 years and 2500 jumps. BTW two were on two handle cutaway systems (capewell type releases). Only one was on a three ring.

You asked if there were cases where one size fits all isn't appropriate. I given you my opinion. And others have valid varying opinions.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

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Of course, the timing is only critical once you've made the series of mistakes which ends with you being low with nothing out. Putting some thought into avoiding those situations and reassessing once you've found yourself low would be prudent.

I maintain that opening your container at 2000', allowed by the BSR's for D licenses, at terminal is not a mistake but doesn't allow time for cutting away from a PC in tow. And mistakes do happen. The first allowing a high speed malfunction to occur.

But every jumper has to make this decision for themselves. On the ground, before it happens. That's what I did, I enacted my plan, and it worked better than the alternative.

I have absolutely no grief with jumpers who choose to cutaway. I provide both options, explain my decision and let others make their own.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

Skratch,

I have always seen you as amusingly eccentric, but having an expert stand on my head, in a cold shower, while practicing emergency procedures????
Hee!
Hee!

[azureriders 0]

I don’t have the experience that some of these guys do, but I do coach and just as Terry has said, I teach both options and let them make their decisions. But for my opinion, there have been two very important things mentioned already.

First > And the best answer for a particular person
> at a particular stage may need updating at
> a later stage, when they know more about
> themselves, and start doing new activities,
> and realize more ways that things can go
> wrong.

IMO, at your level you should be deployed (container opening) no lower than 3500’. At that altitude and at your current decision making level, your one size fits all EP’s should be fine and are actually what I would recommend to you. When / If you move your deployment altitude to the basement, you must keep your options open and there is absolutely no one size fits all EP and you should not go lower until you understand that. There again, that is just my opinion, others have theirs.

Second > If you really want to simplify emergency
> procedures and will cutaway from ANY situation
> first you can get a SOS system where one handle
> is BOTH the cutway handle and the reserve ripcord

Again my opinion, but if you are going to the basement with a one size fits all attitude, an SOS (single operating system) is the only way to go. A TAS (two action system) gives you options, if you do not plan to ever use those options, why not go SOS?

Warning, off topic BS below

I don’t often reply to threads such as these unless I have a question, there are plenty of people around like Terry that have way more experience than I to give advice here. In this case, I have been where you are at and done some extensive research on the point at hand when I was at your level. I am a mechanical engineering based thinker and was more concerned with how the gear *should* be set up.

A little off topic, but think of this, a rig with a SOS handle, placed where your reserve handle is now on the left MLW, a standard cutaway handle on the right MLW, and then a crystal ball type handle (maybe a little more grip friendly) for pulling the reserve only, however not connected to your riser as a RSL.

Now your EP’s could be, in a fast action react now situation, pull the one handle that does it all, SOS. Crew wrap, slow speed mal with plenty altitude and a camera on your head, pull the cutaway handle. Below a 1000’, canopy collision, need more shit over your head, pull crystal ball.

That was what I came up with then, and I talked to several people of experience here about it, talked with bill booth about it quiet a bit, there are a lot of pros, and cons. Now: Have I had a rig built with three emergency handles? NO. Do I think you should? NO. Make your decisions on the GROUND, and stick with them.

One other important thing that Terry has already said, glad you are thinking about it.

[riggerrob 558]

3. (Optional) Try to fix the malfunction for a little bit, if you think you have time. If you can't, proceed to step 4.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let's distinguish between "nuisances" and "malfunctions."

Nuisances are common problems that are easily solved and even if you landed a nuisance, you would probably limp away.
Common nuisances include: line twists, closed end cells, and slider half way down.

Freefall students might consider a hard pull (main handle) a nuisance, but if they cannot get it out on the second try, quickly perform Step 4 (cutaway handle closely followed by reserve ripcord).

[riggerrob 558]

A little off topic, but think of this, a rig with a SOS handle, placed where your reserve handle is now on the left MLW, a standard cutaway handle on the right MLW ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A few schools use systems similar to that, but I don't like them.
Their logic is that - if a student panics and only pulls the reserve ripcord, the SOS handle will still cutaway their main, creating a clear space for the reserve to deploy.

I remember when Parachutes Australia sent the first prototype to Rigging Innovations. My initial response was "too many moving parts."
A decade later - and having repacked 50-some odd of them last year - my opinion remains the same.

While a professional engineer might be bright enough to operate that sort of system, it is far too complex for your average field rigger (FAA Senior Rigger or Canadian Rigger A) to maintain correctly.

[azureriders 0]

I did my AFF on a rig like this. The differences between that and the rig I thought (at 80 jumps) would be so great would be the addition of the crystal ball and the removal of the RSL shackle, no need for an RSL if you are pulling SOS, and all your options are open, one handle does all, one handle cuts away only and one handle fires reserve only. That was at about 80 jumps and my mechanical mind running wild.

With a little more experience, I agree with you totally, too many moving parts to fix a problem that was not there in the first place.

I just thought my ideas from the past were good coversation for this thread.

[tbrown 26]

As you see, there is considerable debate about the wisdom of always cutting away. The pilot chute in tow is an especially terrifying malfunction precisely because there is no sure cure. People have died whether or not they cut away first and I would only add that the best cure is PREVENTION, by proper maintainance of your rig and ALWAYS making sure to set your kill line, especially before leaving your rig with a packer.

But you do raise an interesting point. It's important to have a plan and stick to it. Practice it, internalize it, be ready to use it. Consistency helps here a lot. There are a lot of jumpers who choose to follow one uniform set of procedures for the consistency. They feel they don't have to improvise or make any additional decisions beyond initiating their EPs. A lot of jumpers (myself included) don't agree, but it IS a respected method that is taught at many reputable schools.

I think as your experience grows you will broaden and modify your views, but at least for now if this is what floats your boat, there is nothing objectionable to your one standard procedure.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an instructor, just an opinionated skydiver who tries hard to be safe.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Baksteen 84]

Paraphrasing my basic training:

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2. If your parachute doesn't open, or it opens but everything is not just like normal (unless it's line twists, which you should try to kick out), proceed to step 3, or directly to step 4.

...which you should try to kick out - provided you haven't reached your predetermined cutaway altitude yet. (say 2000 ft.)

Step 3: replace the "for a bit"-bit with "until you reach cutaway altitude"
If at 2000 ft you haven't solved the nuisance yet, it immediately becomes a problem. Cut away, and pull your reserve ripcord, even if you're jumping with an RSL.

Should you have lost altitude awareness, and be below 1000 feet, do NOT cut away, just deploy your reserve.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Andy9o8 0]

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Freefall students might consider a hard pull (main handle) a nuisance, but if they cannot get it out on the second try, quickly perform Step 4 (cutaway handle closely followed by reserve ripcord).

You've just described a total malfunction. Why should a jumper waste time cutting away from that?

[Baksteen 84]

(Warning: low jump number)

Because you might have pulled the ripcord partially free when yanking it, so that there is a risk of your main deploying when you do not expect it anymore.
This could mean that you'd have to deal with a new malfunction, such as a personal downplane or an entanglement.

On the other hand, if you did cut away, the main will (probably) stay in the container, and be less likely to tangle in your reserve.
And if it turns out you cut the main away for nothing, it will still be inside the container, and easily be fixed back onto your rig.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[billvon 2,407]

>Why should a jumper waste time cutting away from that?

Because as the initial poster mentioned, there can be some advantages to having only one procedure. And for a student deploying at 5000 feet, the loss of a second or two is not a big loss.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

as the initial poster mentioned, there can be some advantages to having only one procedure.

I have been reading this thread with extreme interest because I personally believe that dealing with malfunctions is the most important aspect of the sport that skydivers must master (canopy piloting notwithstanding).
An open parachute dramatically increases our odds of surviving the landing.
If a skydiver cannot learn to properly handle situations that require action be taken to get a functioning parachute overhead perhaps skydiving is not a sport they should be participating in.
In my opinion, with 80 jumps, the OP needs to review, or be taught the fundamentals of properly dealing with malfunctions before continuing skydiving activities.

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And for a student deploying at 5000 feet, the loss of a second or two is not a big loss.

After "2 attempts" (which in the real world is more than that) a student is much lower than I am comfortable with or if a PCIT occurs, after recognition of the situation there will still be a noticeable loss of altitude.
Cutting away prior to deploying the reserve will burn even more altitude and will not fix the situation of the PC towing behind the jumper.
Perhaps it is better to use the right arm to stabilize the body while deploying the reserve to ensure better body position during the reserve deployment.

The definition of a Total Malfunction is that the Container is totally closed.
With a PCIT, the pin is not extracted, and the container is totally closed. It has been proven that treating a PCIT as a total (which it is) and deploying the reserve gives the best odds of survival.

Quote

The pilot chute in tow is an especially terrifying malfunction precisely because there is no sure cure. People have died whether or not they cut away first

It is difficult to determine why fatalities occur with the only piece of information was, did they cutaway first or not?
Whether or not the main risers are cutaway or not, the PC will still be towing when the reserve is deployed.
Getting saddled in under the reserve without the occurrence of an entanglement is the primary goal.
A PCIT is a high adrenaline malfunction and requires that the jumper dealing with the situation remain calm, and remain stable while deploying the reserve. Unstable body position while the reserve PC is launched is dramatically increasing the chance of an entanglement
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[UnusualAttitude 0]

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I have been reading this thread with extreme interest because I personally believe that dealing with malfunctions is the most important aspect of the sport that skydivers must master (canopy piloting notwithstanding).

Agreed!

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In my opinion, with 80 jumps, the OP needs to review, or be taught the fundamentals of properly dealing with malfunctions before continuing skydiving activities.

I'm most interested to hear what fundamentals you think I'm missing. It seems to me that a proper emergency procedure for all malfunctions would be to cutaway then pull the reserve.

This thread has now highlighted the benefits of dealing with one kind of malfunction differently - a total malfunction. So, it seems that I might adjust my procedures, so that if I experience a total, I will just pull the reserve, without cutting away.

For all other malfunctions, it seems to me that cutting away and pulling the reserve would be the way to go.

Of course, there is the possibility that if you are above 1800ft for licensed skydivers, and 2500 for students, to try to "fix" the problem. However, given the complexity of "in-air rigging," this might not be a good idea, unless the problem is very simple, like line twists.

[AFFI 0]

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I'm most interested to hear what fundamentals you think I'm missing.

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2. If your parachute doesn't open, or it opens but everything is not just like normal (unless it's line twists, which you should try to kick out),proceed to step 3, or directly to step 4.
3. (Optional) Try to fix the malfunction for a little bit, if you think you have time. If you can't, proceed to step 4.

For a little bit?
If you THINK you have time?

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4. Cut away if above 1000ft, then pull the reserve

1000’? Decision Altitudes?
The 1,000 foot cutaway (which we teach as 1500 where I instruct) is an absolute minimum cutaway altitude in the event the jumper is faced with an act of desperation (creating a self induced malfunction etcetera). The trick is to not self induce a critical situation and to make you decisions before you are in the basement, make your priorities based on what?

Good rule of thumb:
Do not make performance maneuvers under canopy beneath an altitude you are not willing to cutaway from (above recommended decision altitude).

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Now, since step 3 is optional, and often not even recommended for people with low jump numbers, it seems to me that it might make sense to just ignore it completely.

It is TOTALLY recommend that if a parachute if fixable, to fix it, but not if the jumper THINKS they have time, but if they do indeed have time – based on what? There should be nothing but absolute assuredness as to whether or not they have time (“thinking” is guesswork, that is not good enough), there is a way to determine for a fact if time is available or not (based on what?).

Why cut away a main that can be safely landed?

How could someone with 80 skydives and not even familiar with the fundamentals possibly know what is “often not even recommended for people with low jump numbers”?

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In other words, if something isn't right, no matter WHAT it is, cut away, then pull the reserve.

No matter WHAT it is?

Total Malfunction?
PC entangled wit an extremity but the pin has not been extracted?
Out of sequence deployment?
Horseshoe?
Premature brake release?
Broken control line?
Limits of controllability?
Evaluation of Structural Damage, PC Entanglement, Silder Hang-up (etcetera)?
Two Canopies out?
Potentially fixable partial malfunction (It is TOTALLY recommend that if a parachute if fixable, to fix it, but not if the jumper THINKS they have time, but if they do indeed have time – based on what)?

What are the suggested guidelines in dealing with High/Low speed partials?


I stand by my statement, that if the OP is illustrating what they know as to how to properly deal with malfunctioning situations, then remedial training is absolutely necessary.

I will never understand why a skydiver will not humbly continue to train as to how to deal with the multitude of varying situations (including canopy piloting) that can arise while participating in skydiving activities after acquisition of the “A” License (many do, many do not).

Since in-depth malfunction training is impossible to do online, I have only asked questions and made vague comments to think about.
This will likely be my last post in this thread - the last word is yours...
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[UnusualAttitude 0]

AFFI,

Thanks for your response. I do appreciate your comments.

I am aware of the recommended ways to deal with all of the situations you've mentioned. I believe my training has been great in that area...I attended safety day not too long ago, and re-read the SIM as well, and made sure I know everything. I also rehearse my emergency procedures in my head all the time.

My thoughts were this though. Since there are a variety of things that can go wrong -- if you do not have time to figure it out and fix it, to simply cut away and pull the reserve.

Of course, if you have a partial malfunction but you think you can land it, there's no reason to do that.

Now, I know you don't like it when I say "think you can fix it" or "think you have time" -- so you can replace "know you can fix it" or "know you have time" there -- I think that's just a semantic issue.

At any rate, of course more complex emergency procedures would be best if they could actually be carried out. But what do you do if you have a problem, you are too low for comfort, and you aren't 100% confident that you can deal with it the right way?

Then, maybe the best thing to do is:

Cut away, then pull the reserve.

Or, it might be a good idea, if you have a total, to just pull the reserve.

I do agree with you though, that knowledge of all of the things you've mentioned is very important.

Some of the key modifications to my original post that I think are critical:

1. Make sure that you don't casually "think" that you have time. Really be sure you have time before you try to fix something.

2. Try to make your decision to cut away before 2000 feet (or 1800 feet). But, NEVER cut away below 1,000 feet. (1,000 is the # you should ingrain into your head as the "never")

3. Do learn all of the nuances of all the malfunctions. But, fall back on the simplified emergency procedures if you need to.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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It's the student thing of try once, try twice
and then ... take care of business.

After teaching a gazillion first jump courses, the EPs are imprinted into my DNA, I think.

I do it the way I train it and my dozen or so reserve rides have all been by the book, nothing amazing, nothing low, nothing scary. I fully intend to keep it that way.

Practice your EPs (just in your head will do) until they are part of your soul.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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After "2 attempts" (which in the real world is more than that)

Not for me. I always see the ground coming up.