Continuity/Mis-routing issue

[peter.draper 0]

Today I opened up a rig that was factory assembled and packed back in 2009. It wasn't used, but was (supposedly) inspected and re-packed again in 2011.

When I ran the lines up it was blatantly obvious that there was a continuity mis-routing problem with the reserve lines. An in-board line from the front riser was routed around the rear riser and steering line group and back to the link.

My suspicion is that it came from the factory like this, and that it was pencil packed by the next rigger because it obviously wasn't inspected. I don't even know how it got packed like this because running the lines for either a pro-pack or a flat pack was impossible (unless it was just pro-packed without a continuity check of any kind, just using a left and right line group).

Moral:
(1) Just because it comes from the factory don't assume it is right
(2) NEVER EVER pencil pack another rigger's work
(3) Remember the inspection is more important than the repack!!!!!!!

[mereanarchy 0]

for a newbie like me who hasn't had a reserve ride (yet), this is scary as all get out! Not going to lie, almost makes me want to get my riggers ticket just so I only have myself to blame (or trust)...

[gowlerk 1,914]

FWIW it probably wasn't assembled like that. More likely it had the bag flipped through the lines. Possibly when the second rigger opened it up to partially "inspect" it without actually repacking it. But either way the moral of the story is what you say.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[hookitt 0]

If the line was around both riser groups, that would be possible. A line only around one riser group is a mis-rigged assembly.

The link will require removal to fix the error therefore it was put together that way.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[RiggerLee 61]

Actually I don't think you could have a miss rout like that by flipping the bag. In that case I think it would be around the entire line set not just the back riser. This would have to date back to the assembly.

It's not that uncommon to see... oppsies from assembly. There are just a lot of opportunities to make mistakes. It's a lessen in why you should check your self. It's a lessen in why you should check the work of others. And I hate to say it but it's a lessen in not trusting factory riggers. I have seen a lot of errors big and small come straight from the manufacturers. Maybe they just stick in my head more. Or maybe it's be cause all of their work does involve assembly of the rig and has a fundamentally higher oopsy potential.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[peek 20]

mereanarchy

for a newbie like me who hasn't had a reserve ride (yet), this is scary as all get out! Not going to lie, almost makes me want to get my riggers ticket just so I only have myself to blame (or trust)...

Do it! For your piece of mind if nothing else. If you skydive for more than a few years, you will eventually even save enough money on your repacks to pay for the course.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi peter,

Quote

factory assembled and packed

Back when Coors was the dominant 8-way team, they had received their brand new rigs as they were the US Team.

The rigs were all fresh packed from the facory. Some of them wanted to get into the air ASAP and some of them repacked their mains. Craig Fronk was one of those that wanted to get into the air. Upon opening, his main was hooked up backwards.



JerryBaumchen

[ineed2fly 0]

I'd hate to be pulling the cutaway handle from that situation and thinking "oh god I really hope the reserve is in better shape"

"As soon as you're born you start dying. So you might as well, have a good time."
-CAKE

I'm crazy not stupid. There is a difference.

[councilman24 36]

A main hooked up backwards does not necessarily mean a cutaway. It depends on the skill of the jumper, the performance of the canopy, the conditions, the landing area, etc. Remember we used to almost always land going backwards. Make sure you should be using your last chance to live.

I had a pair of brothers as customers in the 80's. They didn't bring their mains with their rigs and hooked them up themselves. One time they both hooked them up backwards, jumpednon the same load, and both landed backwards.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

I had a pair of brothers as customers in the 80's. They didn't bring their mains with their rigs and hooked them up themselves. One time they both hooked them up backwards, jumpednon the same load, and both landed backwards.

I would land pretty much any '80s canopy hooked up that way. My Stiletto? Probably not, and it's a big one. (Although I might anyway)

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 36]

Well, since I don't have anything newer than 1997 I probably think about it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[potatoman 0]

Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[nigel99 144]

potatoman

Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JeffCa 0]

nigel99

***Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Is there any kind of rule, unwritten or written, that a rigger must resign or lose his licence when doing something so incredibly stupid and dangerous? Or at least that other riggers take him out back and beat the shit out of him? This kind of carelessness could have gotten somebody killed. The lazy bastard is essentially giving the finger to somebody's life. I would probably be tempted to murder my rigger if I ever found out this had happened to my gear.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[nigel99 144]

JeffCa

******Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Is there any kind of rule, unwritten or written, that a rigger must resign or lose his licence when doing something so incredibly stupid and dangerous? Or at least that other riggers take him out back and beat the shit out of him? This kind of carelessness could have gotten somebody killed. The lazy bastard is essentially giving the finger to somebody's life. I would probably be tempted to murder my rigger if I ever found out this had happened to my gear.

I don't know about rigger etiquette and the fine print.

But there is a really simple answer. Don't be a lame skydiver with no interest in your gear. Every repack cycle is an opportunity to 'do' your emergency procedures. Actually cutaway and pull your reserve (on the ground of course). walk out your freebag and reserve and have a good look at things.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JeffCa 0]

nigel99

*********Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Is there any kind of rule, unwritten or written, that a rigger must resign or lose his licence when doing something so incredibly stupid and dangerous? Or at least that other riggers take him out back and beat the shit out of him? This kind of carelessness could have gotten somebody killed. The lazy bastard is essentially giving the finger to somebody's life. I would probably be tempted to murder my rigger if I ever found out this had happened to my gear.

I don't know about rigger etiquette and the fine print.

But there is a really simple answer. Don't be a lame skydiver with no interest in your gear. Every repack cycle is an opportunity to 'do' your emergency procedures. Actually cutaway and pull your reserve (on the ground of course). walk out your freebag and reserve and have a good look at things.

That's good advice. I'm still a couple of months away from my first ever repack, so never had the opportunity.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[potatoman 0]

If proven guilty, they loose their lic here by us.

That is if I don't get to him first.

I only use 1 rigger, I trust him, I can ask him anything, and he always pulls out my reserve in front of me, so we can check the deployment sequence together (and other things...)

Heck, I always find a new closure loop fitted, with a spare on the main.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[theonlyski 3]

JeffCa

******Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Is there any kind of rule, unwritten or written, that a rigger must resign or lose his licence when doing something so incredibly stupid and dangerous? Or at least that other riggers take him out back and beat the shit out of him? This kind of carelessness could have gotten somebody killed. The lazy bastard is essentially giving the finger to somebody's life. I would probably be tempted to murder my rigger if I ever found out this had happened to my gear.

Pencil packing is in itself the wrong term. You use pens.

I know a hand full of riggers out there that I would let pack for me, if for some reason I am unable to do so myself.

As far as what happens to the rigger, well, at some point word will likely get around and their business will go elsewhere. I'm sure you could call the FAA Safety office and report it, but they'd have to dig pretty deeply to catch one red handed, and I doubt they care that much about us most of the time.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[nigel99 144]

theonlyski

*********Can you please tell me what is the pencil pack method you are talking about?

Polite word for fraud. Basically signing that the reserve was repacked, but not actually doing the job only the paperwork.

Is there any kind of rule, unwritten or written, that a rigger must resign or lose his licence when doing something so incredibly stupid and dangerous? Or at least that other riggers take him out back and beat the shit out of him? This kind of carelessness could have gotten somebody killed. The lazy bastard is essentially giving the finger to somebody's life. I would probably be tempted to murder my rigger if I ever found out this had happened to my gear.

Pencil packing is in itself the wrong term. You use pens.

I know a hand full of riggers out there that I would let pack for me, if for some reason I am unable to do so myself.

As far as what happens to the rigger, well, at some point word will likely get around and their business will go elsewhere. I'm sure you could call the FAA Safety office and report it, but they'd have to dig pretty deeply to catch one red handed, and I doubt they care that much about us most of the time.

Let's not forget pencil packing is often carried out by non riggers. Stupid people who realise they are going to have their packing card checked and it is out of date for example, or to save themselves a few dollars.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Every repack cycle is an opportunity to 'do' your emergency procedures. Actually cutaway and pull your reserve (on the ground of course). walk out your freebag and reserve and have a good look at things.

I like to see people do this. But please, only do it in front of your rigger. Your reserve and all the parts are nice and safely protected inside your container. If you pull out all your stuff then let it sit around for who knows how long before stuffing it into a gear bag that's now too small because everything is more bulky the chances of damage happening are large.

I will measure the ripcord pull force in front of my customer, have them do their EPs, and now measure the force needed to extract the bag with the main still closed. I can't do that if you bring it to me open. Don't bring it to me that way unless you have used it please and thank you.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ChrisD 0]

gowlerk

Quote

Every repack cycle is an opportunity to 'do' your emergency procedures. Actually cutaway and pull your reserve (on the ground of course). walk out your freebag and reserve and have a good look at things.

I like to see people do this. But please, only do it in front of your rigger. Your reserve and all the parts are nice and safely protected inside your container. If you pull out all your stuff then let it sit around for who knows how long before stuffing it into a gear bag that's now too small because everything is more bulky the chances of damage happening are large.

I will measure the ripcord pull force in front of my customer, have them do their EPs, and now measure the force needed to extract the bag with the main still closed. I can't do that if you bring it to me open. Don't bring it to me that way unless you have used it please and thank you.

+10 for this,..

How many riggers are actually testing with a scale so that the loop can be really examined for its proper length? If I can pull the reserve pins with just two fingers I start to think about the potential for Loop Lock Hesitation due to being trapped by a PC fold or flap. If it takes two HANDS to pull the pin I start thinking about how the reserve section has been overstressed due to a too short loop. Cant do either watching someone practice their ep's.

C

I can't argue about practicing your EP's with your own rig this is a good thing, but I suspect the riggers duty's and responsibility to the rig in question come first. Nothing wrong with packing the thing more than once for the ground practice.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[mark 102]

ChrisD

Nothing wrong with packing the thing more than once for the ground practice.

On PD reserves (and a couple others), the instructions are one "/" per pack, not one per data card entry. You'll have to send the canopy back sooner for recertification.

Mark

[ChrisD 0]

mark

***Nothing wrong with packing the thing more than once for the ground practice.

On PD reserves (and a couple others), the instructions are one "/" per pack, not one per data card entry. You'll have to send the canopy back sooner for recertification.

Mark

Whilist ther might be some truth to what you have to say about "that" the idea still stands....
C

Arggh mate, don't ya see the logic???

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[riggerrob 558]

The Parachute Industry Association has a three-step procedure for dealing with naughty riggers.

The first step involves phoning the naughty rigger and explaining what you found. Most of the time, he/she is embarrassed and that is the last time you ever see that problem (from that rigger).

If you see the same problem a second time (from the same rigger) you need to take photos, write notes and ask a second rigger to witness the mistake.

If the rigger makes the same mistake repeatedly - or tells you where to shove your hot-knife - you need to share the evidence with your local Rigger Examiner. If the naughty rigger tells the RE where to put his/her hot-knife, then the naughty rigger risks losing his/her license.
Depending upon the country, the final stage may require involving the Federal Aviation Administration or the national Aero Club (e.g. the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association).

[councilman24 36]

Rigger examiners in the USA have NO power to suspend or revoke a riggers license, or even investigate a rigger's practices. They can tell us to shove the hot knife and we can only smile. We might be asked to assist an FAA Inspector in such tasks and if requested by the FAA administrator through an Inspector be the one who assesses a riggers current skill levels.

The problem with reserves is once the seal is broken there is no chain of evidence custody for enforcement action. The rigger can simply say I didn't do that and you cann't prove that I did. I don't know of case where a non-FAA employee documenting an intact seal and subsequent issue with video has been enough for enforcement action. I do know of one case where there was an ongoing issue and the FAA had a rig intentionally packed by a rigger and then examined it and documented the state of the rig, and took subsequent enforcement action.

In reality riggers are human and do make mistakes. The ones I've made have been minor and not a danger to life. I've bought others to the attention of riggers, and usually to the attention of the owner. I haven't had to drop a dime to the FAA (for all the GenXer's and younger dropping a dime refers to what you used to do to make a phone call on a pay phone.) but if truly a life safety issue I would. Again the problem is proof. Education, when they will listen, is about all we can routinely do.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE