Hybrid (car) goes to Eloy

[billvon 2,406]

Had the first long trip on the hybrid this weekend. I drove from San Diego to Eloy, a distance of about 350 miles in each direction. The car was carrying about 600 pounds (me, Lisa, our gear, and an electronics pallet) I had a Globalstar car kit antenna on the roof, and I ran the AC pretty much the entire trip. Mileage on the ride out was about 42, at speeds from 70-90 mph. On the return trip I stuck to the speed limit (70-75) and saw 45 mpg. It was interesting to watch the effect minor changes had on mileage - the AC compressor caused about a 5mpg swing, and drafting a truck increased mileage by about 15mpg. (If I believe the MPG gauge that is, which I am tempted to do since it is _not_ just a vacuum gauge, and it matched final MPG readings calculated at the gas station.) From some short tests, mileage without AC at 65mph would be around 55 mpg.

In terms of performance, no issues. The big test was the road from Ocotillo to Jacumba, where the road climbs ~4000 feet in 15 miles. I maintained 70mph easily, except where slower vehicles prevented me from maintaining speed. For the first half of the climb the engine stayed around 3500RPM with 100% assist from the battery pack. Then the pack bottomed out and the engine rev'd to about 5000 RPM. Since this car has a CVT I think that's a pretty good measure of power demand.
As a side comment, there were four vehicles having trouble maintaining even 60mph in the left lane during that climb. Three of them, to my amusement, were SUV's.
-bill von

[skybytch 259]

Geez, talk about misleading subject lines... I thought this was about the hybrid jump we did, not about the car!
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[freeflir29 0]

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Geez, talk about misleading subject lines

A man and his toys......
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[diverdriver 5]

Bill....what's a CVT?
Chris

[billvon 2,406]

>Bill....what's a CVT?
Continuously variable transmission. Essentially a transmission with an infinite number of gears. When you drive a car with one, the engine's RPM is controlled by a computer to match power needs, not to match the RPM the wheels are turning (or some ratio thereof.) It's a little odd to drive since you can be accelerating and hear the engine's pitch go down.
-bill von

[diverdriver 5]

I would so like to get one of those cars. I feel it's important to conserve as much fossil fuels as possible until we can get "fuel cell" technology going. I'm looking forward to fly the first hydrogen powered jet airliner.
Chris

[Muenkel 0]

Bill,
If you don't mind, what is the sticker price on this type of vehicle. I believe you had said it was the ecquivalent of a Honda Civic. Also, are they front wheel drive? With the right tires, would they do well in snowy terrain?
If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.
Chris

[bbarnhouse 0]

Lisa I'm with you , but then we were checkin things out "under the hood" ;)
and the things that make you go...........hummmmmmm
"Drive forward, dock and grind"
But 4000 windmills CAN'T be wrong!

[billvon 2,406]

Sticker price is about $20k. Includes alloy wheels, AC, CD player and some kind of anti-theft thing. (Price on the Toyota Prius, the other 4 passenger hybrid, is about the same.)
-bill von

[Muenkel 0]

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Sticker price is about $20k. Includes alloy wheels, AC, CD player and some kind of anti-theft thing. (Price on the Toyota Prius, the other 4 passenger hybrid, is about the same.)

So basically the same price as a regular civic. Do you know how it does in the snow?
If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.
Chris

[billvon 2,406]

>So basically the same price as a regular civic. Do you know how it does in the
> snow?
No clue. It is front wheel drive with a pretty good front/rear weight balance (due to the battery pack in the trunk) so presumably it would do OK with appropriate tires/chains. One note - the Civic hybrid will get much better mileage than the Toyota Prius in cold climates, since the Prius relies on leaving its gas engine off most of the time, and it can't do that unless the outside temp is high enough to let the catalytic converter stay warm.
-bill von

[kmcguffee 0]

I can't get the picture of Fred Flintstone's car out of my head. Does this car have foot holes in the floor board?
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

[TEB6363 0]

OK Bill, I'm loosing it here. You said:

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first long trip on the hybrid

but I can't find which one you have???
Commmmon, we want to know!!
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!

[kingbunky 3]

so, it's like a gas/electric snowmobile with wheels? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bunky
get crazy, before it gets you.

[billvon 2,406]

Sorry, it's the Honda Civic hybrid. It's, uh, sort of tan. After this weekend it has a dead-bug accent on the front.
-bill von

[ChromeBoy 0]

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dead-bug accent on the front.

So you want to save the world and you drive a hybrid car but then you go out and kill all these innocent bugs. What kind of person are you? Your a Hannibal Lectar that is what you are. Do you eat the bugs after you kill them you Bug Nazi!...j/k...

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[skybytch 259]

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then you go out and kill all these innocent bugs. What kind of person are you?

Hey now. He was trying really hard to avoid them, swerving all over the road and such. But when it's damn near raining bugs (and for awhile there it literally sounded like rain) there's not much you can do other than stop driving. And I wasn't gonna let him stop - I wanted to get home and get some sleep dammit!
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[ChromeBoy 0]

Bill Von...your next invention!(LIGHTBULB GOES OFF)

[rgoper 0]

i am really overwhelmed at how far the development of these "hybrid" cars have come. from the belt with squirrels to having to feed them peanuts for power to this. well, folks, as many other issues there is a different spectrum on this topic, and the mentality that goes along with it. how many jobs are we going to craete/distroy, by less fuel consumption? what will be the time line be when all thiss happens? for guys like me, who make ther're living retrieving hydrocarbons for energy's sake, i don't have a particular "fuzzy feeling" about hybrids. there heavy, slow, and if you think about it, the engine RPMS are too high without battery assisstance for any extended engine life. i'm a "new millinium" kind of guy, but if we choose this path, how many of us would get on a commercial jet on a cloudy day? bill, i'm not slamming your car, i'm an engineer by trade, just a petroleum engineer, but i have a lot of common sense, and it tells me, when and if this technology is perfected, your grandchildren may purchase the first models. my views as usaul, are intended to spawn provacative thought, just to keep the ol' "grey matter" active.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[billvon 2,406]

> how many jobs are we going to craete/distroy, by less fuel consumption?
Important question, but since a) oil gets harder to recover as it becomes more scarce b) we need it for far more than gasoline (and will for a long time) and c) hybrids are a lot more complicated than regular cars I think the net trend will be more employment.
>i don't have a particular "fuzzy feeling" about hybrids. there heavy, slow, and if
>you think about it, the engine RPMS are too high without battery assisstance for
>any extended engine life.
Not sure what you mean by this - at 65mph the gas engine in the civic normally hits only about 1800 RPM, and you cannot disable the battery assistance. That would seem to indicate a longer, rather than a shorter, life. In addition, every single diesel/electric train in the US is a hybrid, and diesels are low-RPM machines. Their reliability is legendary.
>i'm a "new millinium" kind of guy, but if we choose this path, how many of us
> would get on a commercial jet on a cloudy day?
Not sure what you mean by this either. Does this mean you wouldn't get on a fly-by-wire aircraft, as opposed to an old fashioned hydraulic (or, in the case of a 707, mechanically based) control system? Or that you wouldn't get on a 'hybrid' (i.e. turbine/propeller) aircraft?
>but i have a lot of common sense, and it tells me, when and if this technology is
> perfected, your grandchildren may purchase the first models.
I don't think this (or any technology, for that matter) will ever be perfect. But it's here now, with five hybrids planned for 2003 - including a heavy truck and an SUV. I think its success will depend on fuel prices. If they stay high, hybrids will do well. If not, the added expense will not be worth the savings.
-bill von

[flyhi 24]

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From some short tests, mileage without AC at 65mph would be around 55 mpg.

Chance to resolve a discussion I have had in the past: Is it more fuel efficient to run with AC with the windows up (less drag) or to run with no AC and the windows down? Does the speed affect this greatly, since it would seem that higher speeds equal more drag?

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>i'm a "new millinium" kind of guy, but if we choose this path, how many of us
> would get on a commercial jet on a cloudy day?
Not sure what you mean by this either. Does this mean you wouldn't get on a fly-by-wire aircraft, as opposed to an old fashioned hydraulic (or, in the case of a 707, mechanically based) control system? Or that you wouldn't get on a 'hybrid' (i.e. turbine/propeller) aircraft?

What about the open architecture of the 777 or fly-by-radio control systems under development?
Heard a guy say once that he didn't like jets because he didn't know why they flew. He knew planes flew because the propellers were spinning. Had no idea why the jets flew.
flyhi

[diverdriver 5]

What do you think a modern jet engine is? It's basically a multi bladed propellor with a shroud around it. All that air does not pass through the whole engine. It goes around the burner and cools the exhaust before it comes out. That's why they are so quiet.
Chris

[ChromeBoy 0]

DiverDriver, do jets kill lots of bugs too?

[jfields 0]

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DiverDriver, do jets kill lots of bugs too?

Yes. Birds too. Bonus!
Justin

[riggerrob 558]

I see hybrid cars as one step in the process of weaning consumers off of petroleum. The entire process will take a generation or two. Part of the process is developing reliable, economical technology, but by far the biggest part of the problem is convincing consumers that the new technology is viable. Sometimes you just have to wait until a generation of consumers die off before you can eliminate a generation of technology. The army does this by retiring a generation of senior NCOs every decade or so.
Current hybrid vehicles have gasoline engines almost as big as conventional cars. Over the years these gasoline engines will get smaller and smaller, until they are mere formalities, sort of like emergency generators that will need all night to recharge batteries.
The process will be similar to the advent of steam-powered ships. The first generation of steam-powered ships retained sails. By the time the second generation of steam-powered ships was introduced, a generation of sailors had died off, so the second generation of steam-powered ships were built without sails. Tradition-bound sailors who did not trust steam were relegated to second-class sailing ships and were able to serve out their carreers under sail. Eventually the few remaining sailing ships were crewed by burnt out drunks who could not find employment anywhere else.
In the long run, we will see the entire economy slowly weaned off of petroleum, starting with stationary generating plants, followed by ships, then trains, then buses, then taxis, then private cars and lastly airplanes.
As the price of petroleum increase, skydiving will be marginalized to the realm of billionaires and princes. The rest of us will get our thrills BASE jumping and para-gliding.