schuair 0 #1 July 15, 2002 I've got 75 jumps in my log book. So today I try my first hop and pop. My question is- "Is it cool to push someone out the door who is not ready, because we are only at 4000 ft? Thats what happened to me and I'm really pissed. I was told we go to 5000 ft, or is the protocol altitude say.. any where between 3000 and 6000? The event really shook me up, but I learned that I can go way below my comfort altitude and do the right things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 July 15, 2002 Anything about 3000 is bonus if I'm on a hop and pop load. I expect to get 2500, and I'm satisified if I get 3000.... If I get 4000 or higher its freeflying of a few seconds out the door till pull time.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #3 July 15, 2002 sometimes 5 grand is 3500 when your doing a hop n pop. sorry... usually if you are student, working on spotting the intructor makes sure you get 5 ish. If you are worried about a cloud or need extra alititude you can always ask the pilot.... sometimes their cool...sometimes the DZO is grumpy about hop n pops (they are cheap where I jump $8) and so he wants minimum altititude unless you ask..."Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sblue 0 #4 July 15, 2002 Well hop and pops for us are usually at 3500, but it is never cool to "push" someone that is not ready. With 75 jumps, you go when you are ready. Students sometimes need a gentle nudge, but that is another topic all together. If someone basically pushed you out, then I would try and have a nice talk about his/her actions once you are on the ground, and if they think that it is no big isssue, then borrow their silver handle from them for a day and they will learn that it is an issue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #5 July 15, 2002 I think you guys missed the actual question. If someone actually pushed me out of the plane before I was ready to go, I think I'd be ready to whip somebody's a$$ when they hit the ground. Everybody jokes around and pretends to push people out on hop and pops, but I'd be pissed too if I was pushed. To say the least, its dangerous. JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nws01 0 #6 July 15, 2002 What I love is the people who are scared to get by the door at 2k plus feet. Ask them why they are scared..."I might fall out!" Duh, that is why you have a rig on your back. You ARE going to get out. I am sure they pushed you out because they knew the spot was good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #7 July 15, 2002 We are all a little playful, but never when safety is an issue. I would say that being pushed out isn't as bad as, say, deploying someone's main at 10K for a joke, but what would happen if you got knocked out on exit because of someone's idea of a joke...not cool. Generally speaking, a hop-n-pop is an individual thing. There probably wouldn't be much of an ass beating at my dz for that, but i would definately funnel the culprit's next skydive for them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #8 July 15, 2002 Question!? I was required to do a hop-n-pop on my AFF progression. Is it not required in all progressions? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbrian 0 #9 July 15, 2002 At 75 jumps, he should already have done a hop-n-pop, but that's another issue. Getting pushed out of the plane is not cool unless it's on fire or the wings fall off, and only then if you're in somebody's way. In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 July 15, 2002 QuoteQuestion!? I was required to do a hop-n-pop on my AFF progression. Is it not required in all progressions? FallRate Yes, everyone is required to do hop and pops, though I have met a guy with 500 jumps who has never jumped below ten thousand feet. Obviously, his shit was pencil whipped. As for low shows: I feel they are an absolute neccessity. What the hell are you going to do if the engines quit at two grand? Get the hell out, of course. But, if are not able to exit in a stable postion, then you are hosed. Around here, we REGULARLY lauch 4-ways out of the Cessna from 3 grand on weather days. Chunk it, turn one point, track and dump by two. Nutty? Not at all. Our static line students have absolutely no problem whatsoever doing low jumps because their first jumps were from three grand. They get over that anxiety early. Hell, they start out thinking three grand is high, since that's their first experience getting out of a plane. Chuck As for the actual "pushing" out of someone who is clearly nervous, that is bad juju. Now, having someone crawl out on the step then balk is plenty of reason to start hollering at them. They need to exit over the spot or they will end up landing out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #11 July 15, 2002 QuoteI've got 75 jumps in my log book. So today I try my first hop and pop. Didnt you have to do a hop n pop to get off student status?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #12 July 15, 2002 [confused face]If ya' can't hop and pop from 2 grand, what do you do on overcast days?[/confused face] Heh..... Peas~ Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #13 July 15, 2002 QuoteI've got 75 jumps in my log book. So today I try my first hop and pop. My question is- "Is it cool to push someone out the door who is not ready, because we are only at 4000 ft? Thats what happened to me and I'm really pissed. I was told we go to 5000 ft, or is the protocol altitude say.. any where between 3000 and 6000? The event really shook me up, but I learned that I can go way below my comfort altitude and do the right things. You mean physically push? Or mentally/verbally push? You should also be comfortable getting out below 4000 ft.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #14 July 15, 2002 Scott: did the person(s) who pushed you out have an explanation for their actions when you confronted them on the ground? you did confront them? did you report the incident to the s&ta? before you go off getting upset, and venting about it (which is kewel) make sure you utilize all the tools available to your self to have the "perp(s)" admonished. if it happened like you said, it's in violation of certain safety aspects of the sport. in response to low altitude exits, do them, do them regularly. the whole idea is to be stable, and acclaimated to low altitude exits, so in the event of an emergency, there won't be any panic. take care:--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #15 July 15, 2002 no it's not cool to push someone out the door that is not ready. i would have had a serious discussion with whom ever did that. if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,413 #16 July 15, 2002 >no it's not cool to push someone out the door that is not ready. We used to do just that on level 7's - plan a diving exit, tell them to expect the unexpected on exit, then when they get to the "Ready" part of the count, heave them out. It was similar to the level-6 requirement for a backloop - it's not really that you need to be able to backloop, but you do need to recover stability from an unusual attitude (and to not freak when the dive does not go exactly according to plan.) I agree that it's not a good idea for experienced jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #17 July 15, 2002 Quote ya but their is a huge differance from expecting something at exit to expecting nothing at exit.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lummy 4 #18 July 15, 2002 Quoteya but their is a huge differance from expecting something at exit to expecting nothing at exit. but shouldn't one always expect the unexpected? Isn't that why people harp about being ready to go BEFORE you board the plane(helmets on, chest and leg sraps done, altimeter donned? Isn't that also why people will remind us to be ready to go at any time? SH*T happens.....I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #19 July 15, 2002 Guys, pushing someone out it is just plain wrong. If you think otherwise you are just a moron. If it did happen to me the dude would smile with fewer theeth, as simple as that. Cool Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #20 July 15, 2002 bill makes an excellent point, in that we need to be ready for anything. BUT...in the event of an emergency, it's one thing to risk something happening to your gear, no matter what the altitude, but somebody just fooling around? NAH, that's an ass whooping offense! what if this jumpers reserve pin came dislodged during this "cute little antic" of tom foolery? anything could have happened, good thing it wasn't me, i would have reacted in a very negative manner when all was said and done. whoever pulled this stunt needs to be grounded to think about what they did for at least 30 days for their actions, just my .02 USD. i failed to add earlier, that i generally don't wait for anyone to aid me in exiting an aircraft, i jump out all by myself! the only time i left when i wasn't supposed to, was on a raft dive, i was on the starboard aft corner, we were in a casa, and we went to "zero g" 1 count earlier, so i got forcefully pulled out of the aircraft, it was either hang on, or let go, so i hung on, then the raft exploded!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hobbes4star 0 #21 July 15, 2002 true, very true but next time you are on a load check out how many people aren't wearing their alt. the last load i was on sun. i counted 6. not that it matters but if someone pushes me on exit i will tear them on their ass on the ground. i go when i am ready, and the same should be for everyone. unless the plane is on fire or about to crash their should be no need to push people out of the plane. what if the reason that the person was hesitating at the door was because their was another plane down their and you pushed them. you would feel pretty bad if something happened. just one scenario and i could go on. bottom line unless the plane is in trouble, or you are a student doing a what ever level jump no one should be pushing you out of the plane.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #22 July 15, 2002 If I'm doing a solo.... and I'm in the door, light turns on and I do nothing for a few seconds... push me out if I'm not paying attention... be expecting a finger as I tumble away... I might be pissed under canopy for a few seconds...(I've been known to space out sometimes in the door) then I'll remember that some one was probally videoing it so I can't live it down ever and might as well laugh about it. If a nudge to knock someone out the door is enough to pop their pin... they had issues anyways. I've seen some one get tackled out the door... others stage an exit and do the count only don't go and one person goes... its all the same... be ready to exit at any time and remember.... this is for fun... unless someone pushes you out at 900 feet... just laugh...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lummy 4 #23 July 15, 2002 Uh.. don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's ok to be pushed. All I was saying is that one should be ready to go, regardless of the circumstances. What if the plane hit turbulence and you bounced out? Or some accidently bumped into you ? foot slipped? hand slipped off bar, etc... Sure, it's highly unlikely to happen, but.... Oh, one last point. Does it make it right if everyone on the plane is doing something? I've been to a certain NON USPA DZ where it's accepted to not wear seatbelts. I looked damned stupid beign the only one buckling up, but ya know what, I'd rather be stupid looking and alive, then dead n cool...I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hobbes4star 0 #24 July 15, 2002 Oh, one last point. Does it make it right if everyone on the plane is doing something? I've been to a certain NON USPA DZ where it's accepted to not wear seatbelts. I looked damned stupid begin the only one buckling up, but ya know what, I'd rather be stupid i have no clue what point you are trying to make here. i was just pointing out on the plane how many divers aren't ready. but if someone is in the door and looking out but not going instead of pushing them out i would wonder is their wasn't a reason they were waiting. maybe as i stated before their is something like a plane under your plane. how would you feel if you were waiting in the door because their was lets say a glider about to enter you airspace and the guy behind you pushed you out. so would you be a little upset. i mean come on it's all fun and games till someone dies right. bottom line if someone is hesitating at the door before you just push them out don't you think it would be a little safer to find out if their is a reason before pushing them out?? we talk about safety constantly but yet don't we consider this an unsafe practice. granted i know that we should all be ready to bail at anytime but in a perfectly functioning plane their is no reason to be pushing out a person. i used to jump at a dz the also housed a glider port. it was nothing to see a glider in our airspace. i am not saying to not be ready to bail at any second what i am saying is that pushing someone out for the "fun of it" you could very well be putting someone’s life at risk. it is one thing to put your own but no someone else’s is a different situation.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites konradptr 0 #25 July 16, 2002 I guess it would be funny if it was my close friend that did it to me, but next time a little joker tries that, grab for a hackey or silver ring on the way out.... ------------------------------------------ Getting banned isn't that bad...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
lummy 4 #18 July 15, 2002 Quoteya but their is a huge differance from expecting something at exit to expecting nothing at exit. but shouldn't one always expect the unexpected? Isn't that why people harp about being ready to go BEFORE you board the plane(helmets on, chest and leg sraps done, altimeter donned? Isn't that also why people will remind us to be ready to go at any time? SH*T happens.....I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #19 July 15, 2002 Guys, pushing someone out it is just plain wrong. If you think otherwise you are just a moron. If it did happen to me the dude would smile with fewer theeth, as simple as that. Cool Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #20 July 15, 2002 bill makes an excellent point, in that we need to be ready for anything. BUT...in the event of an emergency, it's one thing to risk something happening to your gear, no matter what the altitude, but somebody just fooling around? NAH, that's an ass whooping offense! what if this jumpers reserve pin came dislodged during this "cute little antic" of tom foolery? anything could have happened, good thing it wasn't me, i would have reacted in a very negative manner when all was said and done. whoever pulled this stunt needs to be grounded to think about what they did for at least 30 days for their actions, just my .02 USD. i failed to add earlier, that i generally don't wait for anyone to aid me in exiting an aircraft, i jump out all by myself! the only time i left when i wasn't supposed to, was on a raft dive, i was on the starboard aft corner, we were in a casa, and we went to "zero g" 1 count earlier, so i got forcefully pulled out of the aircraft, it was either hang on, or let go, so i hung on, then the raft exploded!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #21 July 15, 2002 true, very true but next time you are on a load check out how many people aren't wearing their alt. the last load i was on sun. i counted 6. not that it matters but if someone pushes me on exit i will tear them on their ass on the ground. i go when i am ready, and the same should be for everyone. unless the plane is on fire or about to crash their should be no need to push people out of the plane. what if the reason that the person was hesitating at the door was because their was another plane down their and you pushed them. you would feel pretty bad if something happened. just one scenario and i could go on. bottom line unless the plane is in trouble, or you are a student doing a what ever level jump no one should be pushing you out of the plane.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #22 July 15, 2002 If I'm doing a solo.... and I'm in the door, light turns on and I do nothing for a few seconds... push me out if I'm not paying attention... be expecting a finger as I tumble away... I might be pissed under canopy for a few seconds...(I've been known to space out sometimes in the door) then I'll remember that some one was probally videoing it so I can't live it down ever and might as well laugh about it. If a nudge to knock someone out the door is enough to pop their pin... they had issues anyways. I've seen some one get tackled out the door... others stage an exit and do the count only don't go and one person goes... its all the same... be ready to exit at any time and remember.... this is for fun... unless someone pushes you out at 900 feet... just laugh...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #23 July 15, 2002 Uh.. don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's ok to be pushed. All I was saying is that one should be ready to go, regardless of the circumstances. What if the plane hit turbulence and you bounced out? Or some accidently bumped into you ? foot slipped? hand slipped off bar, etc... Sure, it's highly unlikely to happen, but.... Oh, one last point. Does it make it right if everyone on the plane is doing something? I've been to a certain NON USPA DZ where it's accepted to not wear seatbelts. I looked damned stupid beign the only one buckling up, but ya know what, I'd rather be stupid looking and alive, then dead n cool...I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #24 July 15, 2002 Oh, one last point. Does it make it right if everyone on the plane is doing something? I've been to a certain NON USPA DZ where it's accepted to not wear seatbelts. I looked damned stupid begin the only one buckling up, but ya know what, I'd rather be stupid i have no clue what point you are trying to make here. i was just pointing out on the plane how many divers aren't ready. but if someone is in the door and looking out but not going instead of pushing them out i would wonder is their wasn't a reason they were waiting. maybe as i stated before their is something like a plane under your plane. how would you feel if you were waiting in the door because their was lets say a glider about to enter you airspace and the guy behind you pushed you out. so would you be a little upset. i mean come on it's all fun and games till someone dies right. bottom line if someone is hesitating at the door before you just push them out don't you think it would be a little safer to find out if their is a reason before pushing them out?? we talk about safety constantly but yet don't we consider this an unsafe practice. granted i know that we should all be ready to bail at anytime but in a perfectly functioning plane their is no reason to be pushing out a person. i used to jump at a dz the also housed a glider port. it was nothing to see a glider in our airspace. i am not saying to not be ready to bail at any second what i am saying is that pushing someone out for the "fun of it" you could very well be putting someone’s life at risk. it is one thing to put your own but no someone else’s is a different situation.if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konradptr 0 #25 July 16, 2002 I guess it would be funny if it was my close friend that did it to me, but next time a little joker tries that, grab for a hackey or silver ring on the way out.... ------------------------------------------ Getting banned isn't that bad...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
