dreamsville 0 #1 July 29, 2002 There was mention in one of the letters in the August Parachutist about jumpers spotting by looking down at what appears to be directly underneath the aircraft. The implication was that this could be in error, even if the winds were known. The writer also suggested a method of looking at distant points to assist with spotting. I would have PM'd a well known jump pilot about this, but I though it was worth posting this so we all get an answer that might help us to avoid pasture walks in some situations. Any elucidation on this (that's Chinese for, "can you help?", pilots)? HarryI don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #2 July 29, 2002 some planes run with a 5 degree or so attitude, so if you think you are looking straight down you may not be and 5 degrees over 13,000 feet can lead to a way different location over the ground than one thought. that could be what was meant, but heck, what do I know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #3 July 29, 2002 I noticed this article as well. Weird, looking down has always worked for me. *shrugs* "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 July 29, 2002 Not exactly certain of the area around your dropzone, but if you're in a part of the country where section lines divide the country-side, then it shouldn't be too difficult to understand how they could help a pilot align the correct jumprun. For people that don't know, section lines criss-cross a vast majority of the U.S. and devide farms into a sort of patchwork quilt. What's really nice about them is that for the most part they're aligned or perpendicular with true north. So, if the pilot was flying a section line that he knew lead directly to the DZ and then saw another section line perpendicular to it that he also knew ran directly to the DZ, then he should have a pretty good idea that he's over the DZ. Oh, btw, the reason the pilot can see these section lines is that for the most part, roads get built on them.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #5 July 29, 2002 Depending upon the direction, we have some section lines. Most of us are regular jumpers at this DZ near I-80 and the Fox River in Illinois, so we have more confidence that we have it right, but it may be more important were it to be a less familiar DZ.I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,421 #6 July 29, 2002 >There was mention in one of the letters in the August Parachutist > about jumpers spotting by looking down at what appears to be > directly underneath the aircraft. The implication was that this could > be in error, even if the winds were known. Hmm . . . I think most skydivers understand that you have to use the horizon as your "down" reference (i.e. look out and back and then go 90 degrees from those directions) rather than sighting along the undercarriage or something. After all, even the same plane with the same load can have a different attitude depending on speed, flap position etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #7 July 29, 2002 I've been taught to look out at the wingtip and then to the nose to figure out "right below". Seems to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #8 July 29, 2002 Is that a Cessna you are refering too? On a Twin Otter the door is much behind the wing and would not work. Also, we are dropping from 14K so any use of the floor for "level" would be incorrect since the pitch of the aircraft can be as much as 5 degrees. I have not read the letter in Parachutist so I will hold further comment until I do.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 July 29, 2002 You mean I shouldn't just stick my head out the door and look for the really big circle to be somewhere near where I think I am in the air? Ciels and pinks- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #10 July 29, 2002 We're out of a King, usually Chris. I look forward to your feedback. Is knowing that "down" is 90 degrees from the horizon enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #11 July 29, 2002 When I was learning to spot, I had a very large instructor who would grab my helmet and move my head around. It stuck. For me, the trick is not to use *any* part of the plane as a reference, but to move your head around to correct for parallax. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #12 July 30, 2002 Having mountains in the horizon makes things a bit tricky. :) Unless you can also draw an imaginary line wherever you make out valleys and connect them... but it seems so much harder to do that. GPS is much better. :) ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #13 July 30, 2002 QuoteYou mean I shouldn't just stick my head out the door and look for the really big circle to be somewhere near where I think I am in the air? That's what i do!! Seriously, the few times i'm on a load with diverdriver jumping, i know he'll look down and make sure the spot is good. Gotta love pilots. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,421 #14 July 30, 2002 >I've been taught to look out at the wingtip and then to the nose > to figure out "right below". Seems to work. Unfortunately, that only works for one type of airplane, and if the plane is banking or climbing, you'll be off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #15 July 30, 2002 QuoteIs knowing that "down" is 90 degrees from the horizon enough? Yes, that is what you need to know. But in practice I can't say that I've seen that much from jumpers. And I have literally flown jumpers from one coast to the other. Either they don't spot (or look out the door at all) or they look out and are only able to spot for their ONE four-way. They don't think about the other 9 groups on board. Add in the fact that picking the EXACT point you are over the ground from 13K is not as easy as people are making it out to be and you have added in enough error to drop people off the airport or at least cause two passes when only one was really necessary. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #16 July 30, 2002 My home-DZ is surrounded by woods. Lots of trees. Really. A couple of lakes, but mostly trees. The trick I was taught to know what was the point directly below the plane was "If you can see the trunks of the trees, it's not directly below". Won't be much help in Arizona though...Erno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #17 July 30, 2002 Excellent observation. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,640 #18 July 30, 2002 Quotees, that is what you need to know. But in practice I can't say that I've seen that much from jumpers. And I have literally flown jumpers from one coast to the other. Either they don't spot (or look out the door at all) or they look out and are only able to spot for their ONE four-way. They don't think about the other 9 groups on board. I know what you mean, Chris. We have this guy who spots for our 10-way team - Jeez!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #19 July 30, 2002 Hey...but I spot for out 10-way team....... Ohhhhhh....Heyyyyyy!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #20 July 31, 2002 It's not always just the spot, if the first group has it right, but also how fast they get out. We try to move out as best we can so as not to hose the rest.I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
