billvon 2,426
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favaks 0
Quotethere would be all sorts of new and crazy regulations set in place because people are stupid.
I wonder how much a jump will cost when skydiving is regulated
-favaks
QuoteSkydiving is'nt for every one and we should'nt try to force it on others the same way flying is'nt ment for everyone.
I agree with that, but I don't agree that skydiving is "ours" or that we should keep it hidden. What stops most people from skydiving is the cost. That's what prevents those huge growth rates. Lets just say in 100 years skydiving has become completely mainstream. The FAA has set all those rules, like you said. Do you still think we'd have the same accident rate we have now? You're talking about 10-50% growth as if it would happen suddenly. That's just not going to happen. Anyway, with more people jumping, more accidents dont make the sport less safe.
By the way, ever seen the Be A Pilot commercials? They're all about advertising flying to just about everyone. That's not to say anyone believes everyone should be flying. I know pilots that I don't think should be flying, but just for general stupidity and not for anything specific.
Just another comment. I think its ridiculously easy to get a skydiving license. In my opinion the A license should be treated more like a learner's permit. Just a little more supervision is all.
Dave
>I did hear that before I started, and I tell my students that - skydiving is not for everyone. And while I don't especially care for 'keeping it to ourselves', I care even less about promoting it to every whuffo who reads the Sunday paper.
I agree..Most whuffos are scared of skydiving, so that point in general will weed out most
>We always need fresh, new, up and coming skydivers to keep things
> new and on the edge..
I> agree, and we've been getting them for 50 years now. What we _don't_ need are weekend warriors who jump once a year, spend a lot of money, and demand perfect safety. We don't need to drag the mainstream into the sport - these are the same people who sue over hot coffee.
But we do need fresh faces in the sport, and you cant tell a person will be a weekend warrior the first couple times you meet them. We stress safety and currency to all of our students, and I personally have had the conversation with someone who was told, this may not be for you, but at least he was given the chance. Just like the rest of us where at one point
>At least let people, give it a try, and experience the thrill that we all
> get "from jumping out of those perfectly good airplanes!" We need
> positive exposure..not negative all the time..
>People die doing this, dozens every year. If you double the number of jumpers you double (or triple!) the fatality rate. That's negative exposure. People who do not want to die (or even take that risk) should _not_ jump.
I agree. Mainstream does not necessarily mean an amusement park ride in every city type skydiving atomsphere. Just think of the type of people who will watch the X-Games? There is a good chance they are already into an extreme sport, and it is clear to them in some sense that stuff can happen if you dont respect it, cause any extreme sport deals with this all the time.
>And I want to swoop the pond on ESPN..HI MOM!!
This was sarcasm...as I do not want my posts to be taken out of context, as I pass along my opionions.
I have been around this sport for 20 of 22 years of my life. I have seen the good and the bad. And met many lifetime long friends along the way. Im glad we gave them the chance to skydive, and did not restrict the sport of going slightly mainstream, if not they would have never started jumping, they did not start jumping due in fact that "everyone else is doing it". but they wanted to experience the thrill...
I agree..Most whuffos are scared of skydiving, so that point in general will weed out most
>We always need fresh, new, up and coming skydivers to keep things
> new and on the edge..
I> agree, and we've been getting them for 50 years now. What we _don't_ need are weekend warriors who jump once a year, spend a lot of money, and demand perfect safety. We don't need to drag the mainstream into the sport - these are the same people who sue over hot coffee.
But we do need fresh faces in the sport, and you cant tell a person will be a weekend warrior the first couple times you meet them. We stress safety and currency to all of our students, and I personally have had the conversation with someone who was told, this may not be for you, but at least he was given the chance. Just like the rest of us where at one point
>At least let people, give it a try, and experience the thrill that we all
> get "from jumping out of those perfectly good airplanes!" We need
> positive exposure..not negative all the time..
>People die doing this, dozens every year. If you double the number of jumpers you double (or triple!) the fatality rate. That's negative exposure. People who do not want to die (or even take that risk) should _not_ jump.
I agree. Mainstream does not necessarily mean an amusement park ride in every city type skydiving atomsphere. Just think of the type of people who will watch the X-Games? There is a good chance they are already into an extreme sport, and it is clear to them in some sense that stuff can happen if you dont respect it, cause any extreme sport deals with this all the time.
>And I want to swoop the pond on ESPN..HI MOM!!
This was sarcasm...as I do not want my posts to be taken out of context, as I pass along my opionions.
I have been around this sport for 20 of 22 years of my life. I have seen the good and the bad. And met many lifetime long friends along the way. Im glad we gave them the chance to skydive, and did not restrict the sport of going slightly mainstream, if not they would have never started jumping, they did not start jumping due in fact that "everyone else is doing it". but they wanted to experience the thrill...
Rdutch 0
Ive never seen rules on how big a motorcycle you can drive or how steep a hill you can skate. Just because skydiving might become more mainstream shouldnt make us limit its exposure. It doesnt necessarily mean there is going to be rules made for us. And putting it on tv isnt forcing anything its allowing people to see what its all about. Did anyone decide not to drive a car after Earnheart died.
Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!
Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!
billvon 2,426
>Ive never seen rules on how big a motorcycle you can drive or how
> steep a hill you can skate.
How about:
-'No skateboarding' rules in malls
-Helmet laws on motorcycles
-Roads labeled with exactly what type of vehicle you're allowed to drive on them
Now apply this to skydiving.
-No skydiving rules near cities with class-B airspace
-Helmet laws (i.e. DOT-approved and tested helmets, no more unpadded surfer helmets or funky camera helmets)
-DZ's with canopy restrictions (i.e. squares only)
>Just because skydiving might become more mainstream shouldnt
> make us limit its exposure.
No one is talking about artificially limiting its exposure. We're talking about intentionally giving it more exposure, partly in an effort to make it more mainstream. We could spend our time more effectivelty, like say putting that effort into teaching people how to fly HP canopies in an attempt to cut down on fatalities.
> steep a hill you can skate.
How about:
-'No skateboarding' rules in malls
-Helmet laws on motorcycles
-Roads labeled with exactly what type of vehicle you're allowed to drive on them
Now apply this to skydiving.
-No skydiving rules near cities with class-B airspace
-Helmet laws (i.e. DOT-approved and tested helmets, no more unpadded surfer helmets or funky camera helmets)
-DZ's with canopy restrictions (i.e. squares only)
>Just because skydiving might become more mainstream shouldnt
> make us limit its exposure.
No one is talking about artificially limiting its exposure. We're talking about intentionally giving it more exposure, partly in an effort to make it more mainstream. We could spend our time more effectivelty, like say putting that effort into teaching people how to fly HP canopies in an attempt to cut down on fatalities.
goose491 0
OOPS! Look what I've started 
I was told this before I started and would have assumed you have been told this before too...
All too true my friend but this still does not mean that everyone was made to do it/excell in it! I would recommend a tandem "ride" for just about anyone but even there, I'm not a TM and I'm sure you'll find some that would disagree and not want to take up just "anyone"
Also, yes, television does make a sport mainstreem... Just look at the dramatic increase in first jump students after such movie releases as DropZone, Cutaway or (hopefully) XXX!!! Maybe "Let's keep it to ourselves" was a poor choice of words but I am not using them to stop whuffos from skydiving. I agree that the more skydivers there are in the world the better but you cannot deny that they are a special breed and not to be found just anywhere. By keep it to ourselves I mean let's try to avoid crazy regulations by keeping the sport safe... Also, not showing people Screaming into the ground/pond on a regular basis for competition on TV would be good.
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
QuoteHey man..how did you start skydiving? How would you have felt hearing that said before you started
I was told this before I started and would have assumed you have been told this before too...
Quote? Skydiving is a kick ass sport..hobby..pastime.whatever you want to call it.
All too true my friend but this still does not mean that everyone was made to do it/excell in it! I would recommend a tandem "ride" for just about anyone but even there, I'm not a TM and I'm sure you'll find some that would disagree and not want to take up just "anyone"
Also, yes, television does make a sport mainstreem... Just look at the dramatic increase in first jump students after such movie releases as DropZone, Cutaway or (hopefully) XXX!!! Maybe "Let's keep it to ourselves" was a poor choice of words but I am not using them to stop whuffos from skydiving. I agree that the more skydivers there are in the world the better but you cannot deny that they are a special breed and not to be found just anywhere. By keep it to ourselves I mean let's try to avoid crazy regulations by keeping the sport safe... Also, not showing people Screaming into the ground/pond on a regular basis for competition on TV would be good.
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
goose491 0
QuoteIve never seen rules on how big a motorcycle you can drive or how steep a hill you can skate.
Sure you have. How about "no skate boarding" signs! and I don't know about where you come from but here, when you get your motorcycle licence, it's graduated and you can't start on a bike bigger than 300cc!!! Apply that to skydiving and you will need X number of jumps before you are able to legally fly an X sized canopy!!! That's just crazy 'cause not only does it say that the 'faster progressing' students have to wait longer to downsize but also tht the 'slower progressing' students will be able to say "screw your advice" I have X number of jumps and so I WILL downsize! There are also rules on the roads of Canada about how many bikes can ride together at one time. There are specific regulations on the type of helmets you have to wear! and blah blah blah!!!
QuoteJust because skydiving might become more mainstream shouldnt make us limit its exposure.... ... And putting it on tv isnt forcing anything its allowing people to see what its all about.
We are talking about swooping right! That's not what skydiving is all about. And while I maintain that skydiving is not a sport for everyone, I further state that swooping is not a landing for all skydiver. People Die under functional canopies more than anything else in this sport... Dude we don't want to broadcast these accidents as "what skydiving is all about"
QuoteDid anyone decide not to drive a car after Earnheart died.
???
Nope but then again, race-car driving is not for everyone either
I bet some people stopped racing cars... And I bet a bunch 'o regular day-to-day drivers thought twice about some of the risks they took behind the wheel
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
We're talking about swooping, a discipline of skydiving. Just because a pond swooping event was mainstreamed doesn't mean it's bad for skydiving. I know skydivers don't want regulations. We have regualtions in place and many of us don't follow them anyway. How many times have you got out over a cloud, even though the gps says you can get out? I think the exposure from the X-Games has done much more good things for sports that bad and for pond-swooping it would be the same.
I agree that if you want the hero worship, do some demos. I did the spectator area at Quincy a few times and handed out pullup cords to the kids and signed their t-shirts. The kids were great.
I used to worry about the mainstream thing, but it seems like when skydiving is brought up, everyone is interested in listening, but not doing. I've had friends do a tandem for the amusement park thrill who will never have an interest in learning to skydive. It seems that no matter how many are exposed to skydiving, very few really try get into it, so mainstreaming doesn't bother me that much.
I don't really worry about lawsuits from people in the sport as much as their parents. When Little Johnny goes in and they think someone should be sued.
The only real problem I see is people who are in the sport and don't realize that the sport is dangerous. Sounds silly, but I see it a lot.
I used to worry about the mainstream thing, but it seems like when skydiving is brought up, everyone is interested in listening, but not doing. I've had friends do a tandem for the amusement park thrill who will never have an interest in learning to skydive. It seems that no matter how many are exposed to skydiving, very few really try get into it, so mainstreaming doesn't bother me that much.
I don't really worry about lawsuits from people in the sport as much as their parents. When Little Johnny goes in and they think someone should be sued.
The only real problem I see is people who are in the sport and don't realize that the sport is dangerous. Sounds silly, but I see it a lot.
goose491 0
QuoteIt seems that no matter how many are exposed to skydiving, very few really try get into it,
This is true, I've heard that around here, for every 100 first-time jumpers, only 1 stays on to become an experienced skydiver...
Quote
so mainstreaming doesn't bother me that much...
...The only real problem I see is people who are in the sport and don't realize that the sport is dangerous.
Put competition pond swooping regularly on TV and you will see poeple going in on TV... lot's of them... This is not good for any skydiving discipline
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
skybytch 259
QuoteThe only real problem I see is people who are in the sport and don't realize that the sport is dangerous.
Huh? Skydiving is dangerous? No way man, I have a Cypres so that makes it safe.
bivar 0
QuoteJust remember with more rules you will probally be seeing rules like no wing loadings above 1:1 for your first 100 jumps, 300 jumps for elliptical, 500 for 1.5 loadingsreply]
In Norway rules like this have been established this summer. The last year we have had a quite large number of accidents where wingload, lack of experience and so on have been factors. Therefor our safetyboard came up with some new rules: 0-200 jumps: max wingload is 1:1.1, stilettos, crossfires etc. are not allowed. 200-350 jumps: max wingload is 1:1.3, vx etc. not allowed. 350 -500 jumps: max wingload: 1:1.6. More than 500 Jumps: Individual evaluation of each skydivers skills/capabilities.
These are ABSOLUTE wingload/experience "guidelines" .
BI----------------------------------------
> ourselves.
>Hey man..how did you start skydiving? How would you have felt
>hearing that said before you started?
I did hear that before I started, and I tell my students that - skydiving is not for everyone. And while I don't especially care for 'keeping it to ourselves', I care even less about promoting it to every whuffo who reads the Sunday paper.
>We always need fresh, new, up and coming skydivers to keep things
> new and on the edge..
I agree, and we've been getting them for 50 years now. What we _don't_ need are weekend warriors who jump once a year, spend a lot of money, and demand perfect safety. We don't need to drag the mainstream into the sport - these are the same people who sue over hot coffee.
>At least let people, give it a try, and experience the thrill that we all
> get "from jumping out of those perfectly good airplanes!" We need
> positive exposure..not negative all the time..
People die doing this, dozens every year. If you double the number of jumpers you double (or triple!) the fatality rate. That's negative exposure. People who do not want to die (or even take that risk) should _not_ jump.
>And I want to swoop the pond on ESPN..HI MOM!!
Then get your mom to the DZ and let her watch you swoop the pond. Desire for 'being on TV' is a poor reason to change the nature of the sport.
Want to be able to say "Hey, that's me on TV?" Join a demo team and do demos. Want to make money and get in the movies? Become a stunt man. Don't ask everyone else to want the same thing that you do, though.
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