Aren't they all better off????

[fasterfaller 0]

I want to be paid for the damage done to the single white male under 30 because of all this affirmative action equal opportunity bullshit . I want a united honkey college fund and I want it now . I want a level playing field in the hiring process where the person who is QUALIFIED gets the job not the one that makes the racial quota . I am sick of hearing this "I am so oppressed " speech . Get out and make something of your life and quit bitching about the past . You think african americans catch hell now , wait till you get your reparation money . " We need to catch up " get off your ass and work towards it and stop waiting for it to be handed to you .This reparations thing is nothing but bullshit to stir up more hate and anger between races .

[freeflir29 0]

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where the person who is QUALIFIED gets the job not the one that makes the racial quota

Hehehehee...the sad part is that Affirmative Action ends up screwing everyone sooner or later. I had a good friend that applied for a job in the Air Force. After getting "accepted" they later called him and told him his slot had "vanished" because they had reached their minority quota and were not allowed to hire any more minorities. He was a bit more than pissed off and we were all bewildered.....

[KATO33 0]

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I want to be paid for the damage done to the single white male under 30 because of all this affirmative action equal opportunity bullshit. I want a united honkey college fund and I want it now. I want a level playing field in the hiring process where the person who is QUALIFIED gets the job not the one that makes the racial quota.

That's exactly why we need affirmative action because there is a history of racism in America. When educated and skilled black goes on an interview he's turned away not because he doesn't posess the skill but because He's Black thus the need for affirmative action.
Some one answer this question? Why is there such a high unemployment rate in the black community?
I never heard of an unemployed slave

Blue Skies Black Death

[freeflir29 0]

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I never heard of an unemployed slave

I guess that would fix that problem wouldn't it.....

[billvon 2,471]

>Acceptable to those who were the oppresors not the Enslaved.

Of course; by definition.

>If it was so acceptable why didn't the British or the Dutch enslave
> each other?..... and leave the Africans out of this "acceptable"
> practice.

They did. Indenture was a common method of paying off debts, and many sailors in the British navy were effectively indentured servants.

Why weren't there raiding parties to capture mass numbers of Dutch slaves? Because the Dutch could defend themselves from such practices.

[billvon 2,471]

>That's exactly why we need affirmative action because there is a
>history of racism in America.

Affirmative action is one of the strongest forms of racism - it _legally_mandates_ separate treatment of someone based solely on their race. There is, of course, a convenient blindness when it comes to racism that _helps_ a minority.

>When educated and skilled black goes on an interview he's turned
> away not because he doesn't posess the skill but because He's
> Black thus the need for affirmative action.

No, thus the need for equal opportunity. I support laws that give everyone an equal shot, and punish companies that pass over equally or better qualified minority applicants for majority ones. I do not support laws that discriminate against one race (or even for one race.)

>Some one answer this question? Why is there such a high
> unemployment rate in the black community?

No idea. Why do some cities have the majority of violent crimes committed by black males, even when they do not make up the majority of the population? Why are some areas in some cities largely black and other areas largely white? I think the reasons for all the above would be pretty complex, having to do with neighborhood and family history, stereotypes, culture etc.

[KATO33 0]

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No, thus the need for equal opportunity. I support laws that give everyone an equal shot, and punish companies that pass over equally or better qualified minority applicants for majority ones. I do not support laws that discriminate against one race (or even for one race.)

OK Bill what Law would you pass ??? that ensured that minorities were not being discriminated against or passed over? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the whole point of affirmative action was to provide equal opportunity.

Blue Skies Black Death

[rhino 0]

Rhino pokes his head in.. Shakes his head and walks out... LOL

Rhino

[TomAiello 25]

Sarcasm/Joke Alert

Here's the law your looking for:

Everyone has to marry and have children with someone of a different ethnicity.

In one generation, everyone looks like a typically Californian. Affirmative action is no longer necessary, because we can't tell who would qualify anyway.

I think Tiger Woods owes me some of his winnings, because one of his ancestors oppressed one of my ancestors (or was it the other way around? I forget).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[dbattman 0]

This is going to be a very heated issue in this country, with some strong opinions on both sides.

Please, please, please- read your posts thoroughly and think them through before you hit 'post.' Let's not start forming a lot of bad blood in this community.

[IronMike 0]

Kato said -"After 400 years of BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS we should go quietly away.
Fuck that...we contributed a tremendous amount to help making this country what it is today and we also should reap the benefits of that contribution."

I have a huge problem with this statement. What blood have YOU shed to make this country great? What have YOU contributed to the country? When did YOU sweat as a slave? When did YOU cry because you were not free? You say WE and include youself with the slaves that lived hundreds of years ago? Shame on you, you disgrase their legacy by comparing your meager modern day problems with their slavery. By the way, you ARE reaping the benefits, we all are. It aint about WE, its about YOU. Live your own life.

[fasterfaller 0]

***Why is there such a high unemployment rate in the black community?

[fasterfaller 0]

That's exactly why we need affirmative action because there is a history of racism in America.

[rhino 0]

8 years in the U.S. Marines.. I EARNED my bloodstripe..

"not directed at anyone"

Sgt. Cowan

Semper Fi

[nathaniel 0]

Even if you could provide some reason that African Americans--to the exclusion of other "disadvantaged" groups--deserve better, why does cash have anything to do with it? I mean, sure it sounds nice, "Give me money please."

What makes you think a lump-sum payment will have any positive consequences for African Americans as a group? You act like money will solve all problems. Have you ever studied public-sector economics? Sociology?

If you just toss money at random people, what's to stop them from throwing it away on crap like expensive cars and TVs...this goes for average people of every denomination.

Money without education and discipline is useless. Look how many twinks of all races, shapes and sizes blew their retirement accounts in the stock market in the last couple years. And that's earned money, not handouts.

Talking about affirmative action in education is much more appropriate (NB: I do not endorse all forms of affirmative action in education) IMNSHO. At least that, in theory, could have some real positive impact.

What would you do if all the good ole boys in Congress decided to pay up and it didn't do squat for African American social ills? What if it made things worse for the disproportionately imporverished by depleting the funds used for essential public services? Things like clinics, schools, water and sewage.

Nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[freeflir29 0]

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If you just toss money at random people, what's to stop them from throwing it away on crap like expensive cars and TVs...

Jump tickets and rigs.......

[billvon 2,471]

>OK Bill what Law would you pass ???

Here are some that have been passed in CA for example:

California Fair Employment and Housing Act - Government Code - Sections 12900 to 12996

This state law prohibits employment discrimination because of the race, religious creed, color, national origin, ancestry, physical disability, mental disability, medical condition, marital status, sex, and sexual orientation

California Constitution, Article 1, Declaration of Rights: Section 8 - Non-discrimination; and, Section 31(a) - "Proposition 209"

Section 8 states that a person may not be disqualified from entering or pursuing a business, profession, vocation, or employment because of sex, race, creed, color, or national or ethnic origin. Section 31(a) provides that the State shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, or ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.

[Jasmin 0]

I AM NOT AN AMERICAN. I have a greencard I don't use and am living in Australia. We're having much the same debate here in Oz with the Stolen Generation Debate. So here's my $0.02.
1) I have never taken anyone by force from their families.
2) I have never enslaved a human being against their will....willingly?...well...
3) I have not worked a human being to death/illness
I work hard, pay my taxes and try to pay off uni.
Is it not therefore discriminitory, to make me pay repatriations for something I had no hand in, based on my ethnicity? I am not Aboriginal/African American, but as I had no hand in these wrongs is it fair that I be made to pay for them?
I regret that these wrongs happened but they are in a past I had no hand in, of which I can have no say in. We can scream that it was wrong and injust but it was done in the past and the present cannot be held accountable in a way that is equally disciminitory.
Yes I'm not white; my ancestors have been attacked by the British, Americans, Scots, Russians, you name it! They have no bearing on my life, I choose my own destiny, let it rest.

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[KATO33 0]

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I have a huge problem with this statement. What blood have YOU shed to make this country great? What have YOU contributed to the country? When did YOU sweat as a slave?

IF you read what I wrote you would see that it is a response to the notion that after slavery was over the blacks should be "shipped off" and settled outside the boundaries of the USA.
Had my ancestors accepted being "shipped off" I would be somewhere outside the boundaries of the USA while YOU are here reaping the benefits of the blood sweat and tears of my ancestors. That why I say we.
You say I disgrace my ancestors... I say I disgrace them when I don't Fight the Good fight for Freedom Justice and Equality.

Blue Skies Black Death

[jfields 0]

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That's exactly why we need affirmative action because there is a history of racism in America. When educated and skilled black goes on an interview he's turned away not because he doesn't posess the skill but because He's Black thus the need for affirmative action.

Affirmative Action is racism, and only serves to perpetuates racism. Does flipping the tables to repress white people really serve to end racism? No. It just makes a lot of angry white people with justifiable problems with black people.

Let me throw a little quote excerpt your way:

Quote

...
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today...

I don't see anything in there about repressing the prior represser to get back at them or to overturn a history of racism. Initiating a cycle of racial power struggles accomplishes nothing. Fairness and equality are the solution, not quotas, sanctioned racism and impossible reparations.

Martin Luther King, Jr. had it right, in 1963. Many current leaders of the black community are disgracing his vision and working toward a "solution" that will do nothing but guaranty the very racism they claim to be striving to eliminate.

[AndyMan 7]

The only question I have for you Bill, is given that bill - how do you quantify it? How do you tell if a big company (like GM) or even government is following the law?

Doesn't it ultimately require some kind of "quota" (god, I hate that word) ?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Scratch 0]

Scratch sticks his head in. Does not quite know what to make of all of this. Pulls his head back out and wanders off after Rhino.

After thought:
There comes a time when people must stop whining about the crappy deal the past has dealt them and just get on with it.

[goose491 0]

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Some one answer this question? Why is there such a high unemployment rate in the black community?
I never heard of an unemployed slave

Anyone with half a head would NOT answer that question... It's totally loaded.

Unless you came back with "It's the white man's fault", you'd get flammed... I (as a young white man) am sick and tired of having my back to the wall when shit like this comes up... I usually say stuff like "I'm sorry about the slavery in the past but...." but now I refuse to say even that. I'm not sorry. A) because I have not enslaved anyone... (nor have my ancestors but you know what, even if they had would not be a reason for me to feel shitty about my life) and B) YOU were never enslaved and now have all the same rights and benefits that I have.

Anyone with half a head should also find it challenging to accept reparations for anything other than a crop of shit!

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[KATO33 0]

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YOU were never enslaved and now have all the same rights and benefits that I have.

You're right I was never enslaved. ... but you have to understand that in a society where racism exist my rights are sometimes not being honored. In my argument I’ve tried to point out how the past still affects the present day African American. I feel no one is willing to accept or at least examine the possibilities. Some people argue as if racism doesn’t exist and I think we all know it does.

You can’t legislate racism away. Racist people will always be racist people. But if XYZ corp. is owned and operated by a racist with racist policies you can hold them accountable for those policies and try to exact some changes to that corporation and their policies. Like Andyman said you have to have some way of quantifying the changes that are or are not happening.

Blue Skies Black Death

[SBS 0]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the whole point of affirmative action was to provide equal opportunity.

---------------------

You are correct...that WAS the point...it didn't quite work out that way, though. Affirmative action is a form of legal racism, just like Bill said...it's just racism that is acceptable to the minority. Equal opportunity does not mean saying, "you have to hire a black man, or a woman, or a mexican, to meet your quota."

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...