rgoper 0 #26 December 4, 2002 QuoteDistracting the voting public. Removal of basic human rights from innocent civilians / non combatants. Limitations on free speach. Closing down DZs and limiting air traffic movements. Maintenance of artificially high oil prices, especially as the Venezuelan brothers are about to go on strike..... (which is good for me, but bad for the rest of the world) And its really, really good for long delays during check ins at airports. i couldn't have said it better. all good points. war will only costs human lives, it is a sacrrifice no human should have to make, but humanity has taught us over the last 2000+- years that this is "normal" behaviour. so it's a "kneejerk" reaction to go to war to settle differences, well that, and to test Boeing's latest technology.war is proof that mankind has no way of communicating in an adult fashion, i think this phrase speaks for itself.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #27 December 4, 2002 Well now it goes like this: UN Inspectors: Knock knock Iraq: Who's there? UN Inspectors: Weapons inspection Iraq: No! You are a bunch of spies for the US and Isreal! Let the rally begin. News here.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #28 December 4, 2002 QuoteThe resolution includes "several land mines," Ramadan said, "and the aim is that one of them will go off." well, i know for sure this is a true statement. ol' wyubya is just itching for an excuse. when we go, is a matter of "when" not "if" wyubya is an idiot, little more than the "village idiot" his antics will cost us, and cost us dearly. Quote"The Earth Starts To Rumble, World Powers Fall! Warring For The Heavens, A Peaceful Man Stands Tall! Just Like The Pied Piper, Led Rats Through The Streets, We Dance Like Marionettes, Swaying To The Symphony....Of Destruction" Dave Mustaine MegaDeth--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #29 December 5, 2002 QuoteOn the peace side, Iraq gave prompt admission to the UN arms inspection teams today to two presidential palaces True. Iraq did give in.. Saddham is STILL a war criminal... At first we were pressing Regime change.. Then inspections... Now regime change again.. Only we were pressing regime change the whole time.. The press sucks.. lol What good does war do? In this case it could prevent other wars, or it could start them.. Damned if we do damned if we don't.. I think we would be more damned if we don't and let a man like Saddham have his way. I could be wrong but I don't think the inspectors will ever find a thing.. The only way we will find anything is if we had ten teams inspecting at once.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #30 December 5, 2002 Quote war will only costs human lives Seems like we have been losing plenty of lives without entering into any wars. Maybe, war is a way to deal with groups/countries who are unwilling to deal reasonably in a diplomatic forum. Carl Von Clausewitz defined war as "the continuation of policy through other means". (oooh, you know I'm serious when I start pulling out the Clausewitz quotes) Flyhi will understand. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #31 December 5, 2002 >I could be wrong but I don't think the inspectors will ever find a > thing. There are two possible reasons for such an outcome - he's good at hiding stuff, or he doesn't have it. I hope we remain open to both possibilities. >The only way we will find anything is if we had ten teams inspecting > at once. We could use ten teams; it would still be preferable (I think) to killing people. A war over anything is bad; it would _really_ suck to invade and realize that he didn't have any of those undeclared WMD's. That would be a lot of killing for essentially no reason. Unless, of course, the objective is to just kill him no matter what the cost. If so, then we should just say we're doing it and do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #32 December 5, 2002 I agree... I think we should stop swinging the big stick so quickly. Maybe tell the Iraqi people how we will help them get back on their feet is they oust Saddham or something.. War sucks... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #33 December 5, 2002 I'm not saying war is a bad/good thing but.. I've always found it strange that throughout the centuries, our way of life, technologies, etc. have increased so much, yet we still solve our problems in the same, barbaric manner, except with more accurate weapons for more destruction. You'd think with all the changes, advances, etc. we've made, someone would have come up with an alternative to war. I guess some idiots just won't listen to anything else but a torpedo heading for their ass It makes me sad Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #34 December 5, 2002 Adding to what Bill said...Saudi Arabia has been a strong ali of the US for many years now. Because of the strong sentiment against them from Americans, recently, regarding the money trail and 9/11 attacker, Saudi Arabia has recently set into action varous reforms, the two main ones being re-evaluating the monies that are donated to their charities (this is where the money trail led to...they said attackers were getting their $$$ from charities) and taking a more aggressive approach to seeking out terrorists, etc. Regardless of whether their government knew it was going on, had an idea and turned a blind eye, or had no clue, I HIGHLY doubt we will go to war with them. They still remain our ali as far as that is concerned.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #35 December 5, 2002 I wish that the UK and US would just come clean and cut the crap. We don't give a toss if Sadam has WMD's or not, we don't care if he kills his people, or isn't kind to old ladies and kittens. We want his oil! Come on for crying out loud! Hell we've gone to war for worse reasons, who knows maybe people might even support a war for oil if only Bush and Blaire didn't take us for idots and just came clean.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #36 December 5, 2002 QuoteDon't think of it as "war", think of it as an opportunity to produce casualties. CZ Theres nothing casual about dying!! The term is used to minimize the horror of all the death that comes with war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #37 December 5, 2002 Quote The term is used to minimize the horror of all the death that comes with war. Hey...some people kill people for a living. They have to work too ya know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 December 5, 2002 >We want his oil! That's part of it, but certainly not the entire picture. We want Saudi Arabia's oil, but we're willing to overlook a lot of problems with them in terms of terrorist support, human rights violations etc. We want Kuwait's oil, but we're willing to deal with them entirely diplomatically. There's a lot of bad history between the US and Iraq (some good, too, but mainly bad) and there is no doubt that the guy's a megalomaniac. Those issues are factors as well. The oil is just one of several. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #39 December 5, 2002 Quotethere is no doubt that the guy's a megalomaniac. Those issues are factors as well. I think the #1 biggest problem is the fact that Saddam and the whole situation is reminding EVERYONE of Germany in the late 1920's and early 1930's. Let's head off the problem while it's still relatively small. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar 0 #40 December 5, 2002 There are some similarities... -Lost earlier war -Country in ruins -Kept down by winners of last war -Dysfunctional government ...but it would be more similar if the following happened: -Young failed painter/political leader from Iran/Syria/Jordan/Saudi supported and used by Saddam at first, removes him and grabs power. -The new leader rebuilds Iraq, its economy and its military. Becomes popular as a great islamic leader. -Creates an Iraqi equvivalent to the Reichstag fire. Blames it on jewish conspiracy. -Starts 'liberating' the rest of the middle east as a response to aggression and atrocities the same way as Germany did in Poland.--- PCSS #10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charliezulu 0 #41 December 6, 2002 QuoteQuoteDon't think of it as "war", think of it as an opportunity to produce casualties. CZ Theres nothing casual about dying!! The term is used to minimize the horror of all the death that comes with war. Freeflir29 is right, although I think he was probably joking. There is a utility realized by the use of force - even the State Department recognizes that in some cases it is the tool needed, which is why the military is sometimes referred to as the strong arm of diplomacy. The people who are required to execute such acts of force are usually pretty average folks, and in order to reduce the horrors of war, and cut down or delay the effects of combat fatigue, it sometimes helps your average modern warrior to think of what he/she is doing in terms of production. But I digress. The term casualty isn't used to minimize the horrors of death in combat. It actually covers the full spectrum - missing, captured, injured, or killed. So, in order to produce casualties, you don't need to mow 'em down with a crew-served weapon, you merely have to injure them with it, or take some of them prisoner, or even convince some of them to go missing all on their own by use of good psychological warfare. CZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #42 December 6, 2002 Meanwhile, al Qaeda has announced yesterday that there are more terrorist attacks to come. http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/05/terror.threats/index.html Everybody sing! "If you can't find Osama, bomb Iraq..."A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
