kallend 1,625 #101 March 11, 2003 Quote More boobies... Attached is all I have to say... We agree on something, at last.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #102 March 11, 2003 QuoteConsidering my newly assigned title of an illiterate, please bear wit me as Ie try to get a REspoNse togesher... I'll give you a less than perfect ability in English and composition, however, I could care less what Billy Bob said to you last Friday around the campfire! I'm speaking in regard to the conversation I'm having with you and the things that we've said to one another. I'll repeat myself one last time for your benefit. I firmly stand behind the policy put forth by 1441 and my belief that S.H. has clearly defied the stipulations within. The same stipulations that you're proposing we offer him as a "final opportunity". Anti up and stand behind the U.N. resolution, created by the same entity you swear behind in your writings. Here's a short quiz: UN resolution 1441 gives the decision to decide if Iraq in in compliance with the terms of the 1991 cease fire agreement, et seq., to a) you b) President Bush c) Rush Limbaugh d) Hans Blix e) The UN Security Council f) Rhino... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #103 March 11, 2003 Once again, I say: quit hiding behind whatever assorted excuses you feel like coming up with. If anyone on the council votes that Iraq has complied, they're lying plain and simple. Furthermore, if you actually believe they've complied, then you may want to rethink a few things as well. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #104 March 11, 2003 Who gets to decide what the "serious consequences" are for UN resolution 1441? Should it be Iraq, Iran, the US, Israel, George Bush, Hans Blix, general world opinion, the UN Security Council, or someone else? What exactly these "serious consequences" should be is clearly not generally understood to be the same thing around the world. Does GWB get to decide for himself, and no one gets to question him? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #105 March 11, 2003 >Since your such a big advocate of putting things into a frame of >reference, try this one: Good friend of mine got himself in a very >tough situation and asked if I could let him move in for a while until >he found another place to say. I said absolutely, and we outlined >some very specific rules and a maximum time that he could remain > here until he would have to leave. That time has come and gone >and he was asked to leave. Good thing you didn't leave the date open ended and claim that there would be "serious consequences" if he didn't leave "real soon now!" Then you could have a good argument over what "serious conseqences" meant, and whether "real soon now" meant tomorrow, next week or when he finds a new place. If you want to apply that to the UN I'm all for that. Give Hussein very specific rules and a date. Then if he doesn't comply, invade. If that's your point I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #106 March 11, 2003 QuoteThat no one believes in "attack Iraq to revenge 9/11?" Several people, right here, have said just that - look up Michele's post on the subject. That's a ridiculous reason to propose war. He had nothing to do with 9/11. You'd best be very clear when you're telling people to research me and the word "revenge", BillV. Very clear and very concise. And very, very certain of your claim. "have said just that - look up Michele's post on the subject."... My assistant broker has the opinion of me that I am a liberal democrat. He is about as accurate in that assessment as you are in this assessment of me, and your thought that my opinion is "ridiculous". Leave your opinion of my opinion out of it. I look to the aspects we can discuss...facts, possibilities, and specific topics. I don't range to Pat Robertson (which you agree is a side issue), etc. I could take that as a personal attack, Bill...considering how vehemently anti-american you appear to be and your continual position that everyone is wrong but you and those which dovetail to your particular brand of liberalism...but I shan't. However, if you should ever find where I did say "I want revenge on Iraq for 9/11", then I shall proffer my sincere apologies. Better yet, please post a link to that, so that everyone can see it. And I will write a beautiful note to you, post it on this thread, and wallow in your most generous forgiveness. With the exception of this particular post...I will bet you 5 jumps at Elsinore ($100) that you cannot find it. It doesn't exist. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #107 March 11, 2003 You have a point. It may not be outlined in so many words that "disarmament by force" means WAR, but that's what I call it. As a matter of fact, the last time we had this problem, we went in with the intention of disarming S.H. by force and everyone agreed that the end result was war. Why would it mean anything else this time around? Look, I'm not out to see how many Iraq's we can blow up, but enough is enough. Diplomacy has failed MULTIPLE times here. What other option is there? He MUST be held accountable for his defiance and if the only way to ensure this is done is through war, then so be it. Peace had it's chance through the U.N. S.H. is making a mockery of the world's policy (at least that's what I thought a resolution created by the U.N. was) and musn't be allowed to continue any longer. I'm truly sorry that he chose this route for solution. "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #108 March 11, 2003 QuoteI understood about six words in that one. What were you trying to say? That no one believes in "attack Iraq to revenge 9/11?" Several people, right here, have said just that - look up Michele's post on the subject. That's a ridiculous reason to propose war. He had nothing to do with 9/11. Okay, I call a total bullshit alert here. I can't talk for anyone else, but I cannot recall (nor find) any time when Michele posted here advocating revenge for 9/11 on Iraq. I know I've not advocated or communicated that kind of logic. You can (and should) do better than that Bill. That is unfortunate.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #109 March 11, 2003 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush reminded terrorists and rogue nations Wednesday that they will face massive retaliation -- possibly nuclear strikes -- if weapons of mass destruction are used against the United States or its allies. This after an Iraqi elite guard soldier defected from Iraq ten days ago. This individual stated that Sadham planned on blowing up ALL of Iraq's oil wells. He also stated that Sadham has inoculated all of his elite guards soldiers. They have been ordered to use all chemical and biological weapons at their disposal. "Heard this on the Radio this morning" Iran will have nukes soon.. North Korea already does.. The shit is hitting the fan. This sucks.. There should be ZERO tolerance for the breaking of the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons treaty. These facilities should be incinerated the moment found. No talk is necessary in Iran's case. Blow it up I say. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #110 March 11, 2003 "This individual stated that Sadham planned on blowing up ALL of Iraq's oil wells." No surprises there surely Rhino, considering his scorched earth policy in Kuwait....The US govt has already awarded the wellhead control and firefighting contract to the company I work for. Any guesses as to who used to be the CEO? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #111 March 11, 2003 QuoteThe US govt has already awarded the wellhead control and firefighting contract to the company I work for. [Crazy] Any guesses as to who used to be the CEO LOL, um, Cheney? BTW, when was his tenure there? Just curious... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #112 March 11, 2003 Hey Michelle, I think Cheney resigned from Halliburton around mid 2000, early 2001-ish, I dunno because somebody offered me a more lucrative contract and I left them early 2000. I've been back with Halliburton since september last year. Yeppers, I'm a shameless techno slut, a scummy contractor, I sell my skills to the highest bidder. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #113 March 11, 2003 Michelle:"I could take that as a personal attack, Bill...considering how vehemently anti-american you appear to be " Yes, anyone who disagrees with the current administrations policies is unamerican. Would you please define "american" for me? Rhino:"A German is doing the inspections.. = Germany isn't playing ball.. " I assume you're referring to Hans Blix, the guy from Sweden. Your grasp of the politics of this situation is awe inspiring. Nacmac:I think Cheney resigned from Halliburton around mid 2000, early 2001-ish," Yeah, he probably didn't get any stock options or have any interest in the company. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #114 March 11, 2003 NacMac, at least you have a highest bidder. Haliburton is huge anyway, a lot of Texans have worked for them at one point. Of course I am sure Bill has some rebuttal for this news...peace reigns and all that. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #115 March 11, 2003 QuoteOnce again, I say: quit hiding behind whatever assorted excuses you feel like coming up with. If anyone on the council votes that Iraq has complied, they're lying plain and simple. Furthermore, if you actually believe they've complied, then you may want to rethink a few things as well. What evidence (not hearsay) do YOU have that they haven't complied?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
staticnewbie 0 #116 March 11, 2003 Quote Rhino:"A German is doing the inspections.. = Germany isn't playing ball.. " I assume you're referring to Hans Blix, the guy from Sweden. Your grasp of the politics of this situation is awe inspiring. LMFAO!!! I'm guessing most people on this thread are American (too lazy to check profiles), and most people here in the UK are in stitches at the rubbish people like Powell come out with. Bottom line: Saddam is an evil git, he will kill his own people. However, he won't attack the US or its interests (defence excepted) because he knows that his country will then be bombed to bits. He would run away in this instance, but he also knows that once he runs away he will have no loyalty and will be turned in by his own generals. "Iran will soon have nukes, North Korea already does" - has nothing to do with Iraq! If you have a problem with nukes go to the countries that already have them, and I include the US and UK here - being Western doesn't mean you are trustworthy. "Serious consequences" does NOT spell military action, and even if it did, resolution 1441 sets out the guidelines under which 'military action' COULD be taken. The fact that you CAN do something does not necessarily mean that you SHOULD do something. Rant over: be nice to each other people. Nick Not anti-American, just anti-stupid cheating fools in big White houses This username sucks, so I'm BBKid now instead. Replies, insults, sexual favours and death threats to be sent there from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #117 March 11, 2003 The BBC article that announced in essence that only American companies were invited to tender the rebuilding of Iraq - mentioned that Cheney resigned from Halliburton to in order to run for his political office. The only american companies bidding has really pissed off some middle ground Brits though - so more Brits are anti-war as a result Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #118 March 11, 2003 "The only american companies bidding has really pissed off some middle ground Brits though" There is no British company qualified to even tender this type and scale of work (please correct me if I'm wrong), thats one of the reasons I, and 2000 other people in Aberdeen alone, work for this American company. Halliburton (in my case a subsidiary called Kellog Brown and Root) isn't known as 'Big Red' for no reason! To say that the UK won't benefit from the spoils of reconstruction is kinda narrow minded. See guys, anti-war, not anti-American! -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #119 March 11, 2003 Also bear in mind, that these requests for proposals (RFPs) will also enable better cost estimates to rebuilding as well. The first report I read about this said, "It was a quiet invitation" involving about 5 or 6 companies. Apparently though it's not so quiet, but I still can't find many details. Remember too, if these contracts get awarded, there will always be subcontractors, and subs below that also. Depending on how things develop, I would like to see how many French, and German subcontractor companies end up in the picture, in proportion to other nations that are participating. Hmmm...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #120 March 11, 2003 "I would like to see how many French, and German subcontractor companies end up in the picture," Loads of them. Simple as that. I can think of heaps that would be involved in the oil and gas side alone.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #121 March 11, 2003 I am only repeating what the BBC said - and the exact phrase used by the Brit politician was "vomit inducing proposals like this" - It seemed to imply general re-construction - but then I do realise to ? the media.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #122 March 11, 2003 The media only reported what a politician said. Its the freakin' diplomats and politicians that have caused all this hassle in the first place.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #123 March 11, 2003 Quote"I would like to see how many French, and German subcontractor companies end up in the picture," Loads of them. Simple as that. I can think of heaps that would be involved in the oil and gas side alone. Normally, I would agree. But if the rift in the UN is not mended, and we go to war, at the end of the campaign you can bet that the US will be reassessing its alliances closely. Henry Kissinger said it himself in an interview on FoxNews (Greta Van Sustren), "This is a shameful time for the UN and the Atlantic Alliance. The US must reevaluate its ties..." <<< That's a paraphrase, but it was strong language coming from a living legend. The affect on that, say if Halliburton were to become a major main contractor in a reconstruction, could easily be giving way to aspiring Spanish, Italian, Turkish, and Jordanian companies. It could be that simple (though I doubt it).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #124 March 11, 2003 Gawain, in my filed ..oil and gas, the main contractor simply supplies the infrastructure to manage design and procurement, th profit they make is something like 10-20%. The raw materials will come from places like Germany/Japan for steel pipe fittings etc. With free trade in Europe tracking components to country of origin will be difficult to say the least. We also have free movement of labour, eg 2 years ago I was working for an American owned company on contract in Germany, for a contract in Khazakstan, being paid for by a French/Italian/consortium. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #125 March 11, 2003 Quote I was working for an American owned company on contract in Germany, for a contract in Khazakstan, being paid for by a French/Italian/consortium. Did they pay in marks, dollars, francs, lyra... or crayons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
