Calling a Bluff

[Schroeder 0]

Ok, here's my situation:
I've been working for a company for the last year that sub-contracts draftsmen/designers out to engineering companies that don't have in-house drafting for themselves. Over the course of the last year, the company I've been stationed at has become quite attached to me (Company A), since I work at their office and have for the last year.

So just last week, one of them found out that I was applying to a new job with a competing firm (Company B), and this really freaked them out. Where I work now, I don't get sick days,. vacations, stat. holiday pay, benefits, etc, so it's really in my best interest to quit this sub-contracting business and just work full time for a firm. So now that they know this, they've asked me to let them know what happens with Company B so that they can out-'bid' them and win me if it comes to that. So it seems to me that Company A really only wants to fight for me when faced with the prospect of losing me.

SO! If I don't get an offer from Comapny B, then, I wonder if Company A will just cool their heels, which brings me to the subject of this poll:

Should I, even if I don't get the job with Company B, still give Company A the impression that I'm leaving, basically calling a bluff?

[DYEVOUT 0]

What you do is up to you. The engineering outfit I design for just hired a drafter that we had been "renting" for awhile. I'm sure he got better bucks, and now has consistent hours, and bennies.

I wish we had more guys like him, instead of making designers do most of their own drafting. I know what I want on the drawing, but someone that runs AutoCad all day can sure get it on there faster than I can.

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[QuickDraw 0]

Don't burn your bridges just yet, let them fight it out for you.
Explain to both parties that you really want to work for them but its the conditions which will decide the winner.
Tell the people you work for that company B are prepared to wait for you too.... after seeing your portfolio etc.

And don't forget to lie like a bitch too.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[Schroeder 0]

hmm... judging from your replies... maybe it is crazy enough to work.... maaybee....

Anyone ever been in a simalr situation?

[Viking 0]

yes

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[Schroeder 0]

Quote

I wish we had more guys like him, instead of making designers do most of their own drafting. I know what I want on the drawing, but someone that runs AutoCad all day can sure get it on there faster than I can.

yeah, that's the reason I'm a hot commodity, is that I began like 5 years ago as a drafter, but have since virtually become a enviro/civil designer, so I take a lot of weight off the the engineers etc in the office. And they can't find many people like me that easily so they want to keep me around...

If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me?

[skymama 35]

I never believe in lying. In my opinion, if you don't get a job with Company B, then you should tell the truth. But, you should also tell them that you are going to continue to look for jobs that give you the additional perks and let them know that you would like to stay with them if they can meet your needs. Since it seems they want you, it's win/win for everyone.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Remster 24]

Quote

Since it seems they want you, it's win/win for everyone.

Yep... never burn bridges.... you never know when you might need them.

Remster

[wmw999 2,166]

Good advice -- always listen to mama!

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Schroeder 0]

hmm.. hon-nest-y....

alright, I'll give it a shot.

[jfields 0]

I'd have a heart to heart talk with your boss at Company A. Tell them that you are looking because you don't like the situation you are in. You can tell them how much you love working with them, but that you need a stable job with benefits and such. Tell them that you'd really like that stable job to be with them, but you need the whole package. But don't really give them an ultimatum, but hint that if you get a firm offer from Company B with benefits, you might accept it on the spot. Give your current employer a chance to be proactive and make you the offer.

If they get your point and cough up and offer you a job you'd like, take it. If they don't, stay there and out of the unemployment line while you reevaluate. At that point, your current company will have essentially told you, "We like you, but not enough to put forth any real effort to hire you." See what the other company says and quietly put your services into the market. See who wants to hire you. If you get an offer, just take it. Don't worry about the place where you currently work. They don't care enough to try to keep you.

[quade 3]

Well, I have to agree that telling the truth is always a good thing, but telling them -everything- is just not good business.

In my opinion, his first mistake was in telling them anything before he had an offer from Company B.

Trust me, there aren't many companies that will ever tell you the entire truth when it comes to your getting fired or layed off, so why should you tip your hand that you're looking around before you actually have something to deal with?

Once you have an offer from another company, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate.

Letting them know that you're looking before you have another deal already in your hand tips them off that maybe you're not the guy they want to have doing the next big project. So, you're more likely to get marginalized and it creates a steep descending spiral toward hell.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jfields 0]

Quade,

I agree with you, but the cat is already out of the bag. The best thing to do now is mostly play it straight, but start looking for something else either way. The current situation won't last. Either he'll get hired, or leave.

[Schroeder 0]

WHOA! depressing senario.


Basically I have told them that I'm unhappy with my current position, and that I'm at the point now where I need to look at more stable, profitable work for me, and that while I find it very interesting and enjoy the work I do with Company A, its just not in my best interest to continue under the current arrangement. Which they fully understand, because they're not too fond of the fact that half of what they get billed goes to some face who they never see (sub-contracting boss). But after having had words with the higher-ups they seem very interested in keeping me around, so it will be an interesting week to see how this plays out. In anycase, it's a very educational experience.

[rehmwa 2]

The questions in the poll make it look like you already made up your mind.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Schroeder 0]

keen observation. I suppose they do...

[BillHarris 0]

I went thru some thing similar.You are actually in a great position.In my situation CompanyB offered me a good package but not a great one.I went back to to company A with a proposal and they took it.
If you really like working where you are let them know it.
Remember for argument sake, If the contracted company gets paid $1.00 and you get .50 of it go to company A with a .75 + benefits and Holidays..you get a 50% (+) pay raise they SAVE nearly 25% and everyone's happy , Remember by coming on board "you are saving Company A" alot of trouble in costs, having to deal with the contracted company and having to find and train a newbie ...Everyone wins..OK 'cept the contracted company....and that brings up another point. You should make sure/find out if, in the contract that company A has with the contracted company you work for , that you are free to leave with out cost or penalty,sometimes there are clauses to try and prevent or limit just what you are thinking of doing,
Good Luck
Bill

My Decisions are based on Calculation, Not fear or Emotion.
Crazy is a matter of one's own perspective

[Schroeder 0]

yeah, I like your thinking.
There is a part in my contract that says that for 1 year after termination by either party, I cannot work for company A. HOWEVER that contract was written with respect to company A, not, to the new company that I believe may emerge if a certain merger happens between Company A and C, and that's when they want to scoop me.

[tbrown 26]

Start looking everywhere and when you find something, pull the plug on the bastards. They've had you for a year, they should pay you what you're worth. But they won't, because they're bottom feeders. Don't tell anyone what you're doing, move silently and be merciless. You'll enjoy it.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[fasterfaller 0]

Take the gamble . Bluff the bastards .

[airann 1]

Quote

I never believe in lying.

Yeah, so dont ask me personal shyt.

Hell... oooo?

I am agreeing with Mama.
That would be beer.

<real Mama>

~AirAnn~

[NoPush 0]

As a manager I go through this drill often. I'm most impressed when an employee or a perspective candidate negotiates on their own terms. The threat of leaving is just that and a bad way to start a employment negotiation. You need your manager (both the existing and the potentially new) to focus on why he/she wants to keep, promote or hire you. Not just the fact you might leave. Never shop an offer from another opportunity.

You, not the offer, needs to determine your:

Fair Wage for your abilities
Benefits (not just medical, but cell phone, computer, etc)
Terms of employment
Advancement/promotion/responsibilities/future
Training
Merit or bonus potential (this is key, be creative here)

When salary becomes an issues, set some goals for you to reach and attach a price to them. Point out what the company gains if you hit your goals.

The original company B offer should give you the confidence not the terms to approach company A. So make your own list of the above terms and give it to both A and B. Then negotiate each separately.

Lastly leave room for negotiation. Ask a little high so you can give a little during the process.



Then decide which is closest to a DZ........oh yea that's important too....

[Schroeder 0]

noted sir! Good tips for sure. I will do just that, make a list.

Thanks everyone

[Deuce 1]

Schroeder I hear you're looking to leave us.

YOU: Oh, really? I gotta tell you boss, I just love working here, the people are smart, the work is interesting, the work environment is pleasant, and honestly, the managment staff is the best I've experienced!

Boss: Well why are you leaving?

YOU:I don't want to leave. I want more than anything to be a part of THIS team, but I won't be so long as I'm a contract employee.

Boss: Well, what if you WERE a member of this team?

YOU: OH! I'd stay here forever! Wow. Gosh, that would be great. I've wanted to be "on the team" since the first day I got contracted to work here. Everybody just raves about the pay and benefits. What are the wage and benefit programs that accompany the position?

Boss: What would you need?

YOU: 70K a year, 401K match, Medical, dental, optical, orhodontic, life. When do I start?

Gosh. Thanks.

[Schroeder 0]

Brilliant!