TheAnvil 0 #1 July 10, 2003 Anybody have any thoughts on why the hell we SHOULD commit troops to Liberia? Sierra Leone, Cote d' Ivoire, Nigeria, and either Togo or Benin(I forget which one) - all have petroleum resources and are all closer to the US than the Middle East, so stabilization of this region could be in the long term interests of the US if we wanted to shift our oil suppliers to this area of the world. However, aside from that, I see no pressing need for us to go in there now and am not really sure that reason would be enough to garner my support. Any thoughts from anyone? Billvon? SkyDekker? BlueEyedMonster? Wendy? Gawain? Bodypilot? PhillyKev? Anybody? My own feelings are mixed right now and I haven't made up my mind. I personally think that shifting our petroleum suppliers from the Middle East to West Africa as their production capabilities increase would be a good thing. Shorter route for one thing, which equates to less transport costs. More US companies with a presence there means more $$ going into those countries - which need the cash - and more development for their infrastructures and such. Those nations are more densely populated than the Middle Eastern ones we currently get our oil from, so we'd be helping more people - tangentially. Random thoughts from TheAnvil. Beers to all, Vinny the Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #2 July 10, 2003 Well, if Iraq was about WMD terrorism oil not finishing them off in 1991 liberating the oppressed people of Iraq, then Liberia has at least as many oppressed people. Just not as much oil. I'd like to see the UN there, personally. Sounds like a situation where they would be able to provide quite a bit of legitimacy to that kind of operation. But since we are setting ourselves up as world policemen, it makes sense that some of the world will look at us that way. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #3 July 10, 2003 Actually, Once again... we caused the mess to begin with. So its kinda our responsibility... so some poeple think. Edit to add: QuoteIn 1980, when young army officers overthrew the settler-dominated government, many Liberians hoped for reform in the elitist system and a shift of power to the indigenous majority. But military leader Samuel Doe bypassed the grass-roots opposition groups that had also opposed the settler regime. Instead he established arbitrary military rule, favoring his own ethnic group and setting the scene for factionalization of the country. The U.S. government provided massive backing for the Doe regime in the 1980s, with a total of $402 million in aid between 1981 and 1985--more than during the entire previous century. One of the reasons for this largesse was unknown even to many Administration officials: the Doe regime had allowed Liberia to become a key staging post for a large-scale covert U.S. operation against Libya's Muammar Qaddafi. // Close observers of the Liberian scene concur that the United States could have done much more to stop the carnage. James Bishop, U.S. ambassador to Liberia from 1987 to 1990, stated in recent congressional testimony that: U.S. diplomats were instructed to desist from their efforts at peacemaking, and the U.S. government stood aside both militarily and diplomatically as the country descended into barbarism. American government funds helped feed those victims of the conflict able to reach food distribution points. But the U.S. also used its influence to limit the United Nations' role to relief and to ineffective moral exhortation. Successive administrations were unwilling to put serious diplomatic pressure on those foreign states providing arms to the belligerents. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/34/043.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #4 July 10, 2003 So there can be a sequel to "Black Hawk down"? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 July 10, 2003 Oh Tonto, so much cynicism, from one normally full of hope...?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 July 10, 2003 Who said I wasn't full of hope? I saw "Tears of the Sun" with Bruce Willis disobeying orders to save a woman with too much cleavage from Nigeria. It's just not the same! George Bush is here now, and as our President said. "He's not coming at us like Big Brother... yet." tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #7 July 10, 2003 Quoteall have petroleum resources and are all closer to the US than the Middle East, so stabilization of this region could be in the long term interests of the US if we wanted to shift our oil suppliers to this area of the world. This article might be of interest. QuoteThe US imports two thirds of its oil needs. About 15% of that amount comes from West Africa and that figure is projected to rise to 25% in the next 10 years. The oil sector in Sub-Saharan Africa is one of the fastest growing in the world. If they do commit troops to Liberia that chimpanzee in the White House will have armed forces committed in serious numbers on three fronts - hope the American economy is strong enough to sustain extended campaigns. QuoteAmerica may even eventually increase its military presence in the region to secure its oil supplies. Do you reckon South Africa is next on the chimpanzee's hit-list? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #8 July 10, 2003 Quote "Do you reckon South Africa is next on the chimpanzee's hit-list?" ------------------------------------------------ I don't know, but everyone was very careful to tell the president there is nothing in Africa but AIDS and famine. No mention was made of gold, diamonds, oil etc. Traditional dress was worn and our president arrived by donkey. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 July 10, 2003 "Do you reckon South Africa is next on the chimpanzee's hit-list?" Nope but I reckon Harrow Wealde might be the scene of some covert ops!-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #10 July 10, 2003 QuoteNope but I reckon Harrow Wealde might be the scene of some covert ops! Yeah, there is a bit of an oil spill on my drive and one of my house-mates is Syrrian, more than enough motive for Bush Gump to invade. Say, Nac, can I come live with you for a while? Edited to add : Before anybody starts harping on about me picking on Dubya (the special needs Walton kid who never made it back from summer camp), read the following to get a clear picture of the bull-shit Tony Blair fed us to sell the war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #11 July 10, 2003 Quotefed us to sell the war. Hey, you're the ones who bought it! lol Us, well, I'm kina pround our officials called him a morronRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kerozene 0 #12 July 10, 2003 Simple: they want african-american votes for the next elections... They want to gain sympathy by "taking care" of some of the problems in Africa...(AIDS, conflicts etc) How generous of them Elections in north america (canada and USA) are nothing more than mascarades... Which I lived in Europe... "That makes me angry, and when Dr. Evil gets angry, Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset. And when Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset....people DIE!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kerozene 0 #13 July 10, 2003 Sorry for spelling mistake: "Wish" I lived in Europe, ... pardonnez-moi pour la faute. "That makes me angry, and when Dr. Evil gets angry, Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset. And when Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset....people DIE!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #14 July 10, 2003 "mascarades... Which I lived in Europe... " Masquerades.... But I think we get the message.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #15 July 10, 2003 QuoteUs, well, I'm kina pround our officials called him a morron Looks like Nelson Mandela doesn't like monkeyboy too much either... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #16 July 10, 2003 "Say, Nac, can I come live with you for a while?" Well, yeah, but I think they are watching me as well....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #17 July 10, 2003 Well that's because Monkey boy's right hand man DICK Chenney still considers Nelson Mandela a terrorist for using violence to overthrow the apartheid government.... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kerozene 0 #18 July 10, 2003 thanks nacmacfeegle, French words are sometimes so similar to english words... so confusing "That makes me angry, and when Dr. Evil gets angry, Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset. And when Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset....people DIE!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #19 July 10, 2003 Hey guys... Yes Bush is a chimp. But this was started in the 1980's So you have to blame Reagan. Second, Bush really does not want to send troops to Liberia. That should be obvious by the hesitation. EUROPEAN & AFRICAN countries want us to send troops. They are applying pressure to Bush to do so. He is dragging his heals. If he wanted to commit troops, they would be there in full force by now. But there is only a small group there studying the situation. And, there are no promises when and how many more troops will go--just speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #20 July 10, 2003 I believe I said if they do commit troops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #21 July 10, 2003 QuoteI believe I said if they do commit troops. Opps, sorry I missed that If word. I think bush will avoid sending troops if he at all possibly can without loosing political face. The problem is, everyone else wants us there. If we go, it won't be about oil, it won't be about his reputation, it will be about trying not to piss off everyone else more than he already has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,147 #22 July 10, 2003 Well first of all, I don't think they have had enough time yet to make up some false intelligence to justify an invasion I think that Bush's trip to Africa is a great campaign ploy, aimed at winning over some african-american votes. Liberia. I think it would be wiser to let the UN deal with it. But then again, according to the US the UN is useless, so it is an interesting situation to be in. I would say that if Bush decides to send troops to Liberia, he will start pulling out from Afghanistan. Canadian troops are heading there, plus there really is nothing left to win there. It is obvious that all that great intelligence that is so often cited can't find them the most wanted man after 911. And accoriding to the US administration he is not important anymore. Hence, might as well pull out of Afghanistan. As a side note, interesting to read today that the so called coalition of the willing is not very willing to committ troops. Looks like they want a UN resolution before doing anything now. Anvil, I know you and I rarely agree, but would you not say that the US economy is getting pretty darn fragile to be spending so much money on (I can't really call it defence, because it has pretty much all been offence) militairy objectives? 3.6Billion dollars per month and that is just to stay in Iraq. Wonder how many jobs that could create? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 July 10, 2003 QuoteActually, Once again... we caused the mess to begin with. So its kinda our responsibility... so some poeple think. There is famine, poverty, disease, and AIDS problems in Africa. When the US does nothing, people whine that nothing is being done. When the US comes in with aid for a new govt, then somehow the US is responsible for creating whatever problems that occur forever. When the US supports the replacement of a govt, they are imperialists. All the do-nothing countries of the world complain that whatever action (or inaction) that the US does is imperfect. Of course, it is easy to Monday-morning quarterback any situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #24 July 10, 2003 We need to stay the f@#k out, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #25 July 10, 2003 QuoteThey want to gain sympathy by "taking care" of some of the problems in Africa...(AIDS, conflicts etc) How generous of them Just to be clear on what your opinion is...do you support the idea that the US should not do anything about the AIDS crisis or famines in Africa? You seem to be identifying it as posturing or bad somehow. In the past, the US has been criticized for doing nothing. Are you criticizing Bush for doing something now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
