Holy war

[billvon 2,426]

>Did he say we are engaged in a jihad? Hmm. I didn't hear that.

He said we're Judeo-Christians fighting enemies who take their cues from Satan. I won't bore you with definitions of jihad and infidel; they're available on-line.

>If so, how can stating that we are engaged in a holy war with those who
> have declared a holy war on us increase casualties in any way?

Because a holy war with 10,000 extremists will kill more americans than a war with 1000 extremists - and saying that it really is a religious war will create more extremists. If you were fighting a race war in another country, and a leader of that country stood up and said "It's a war between the whites and those who follow satan" - do you think that might intensify the conflict?

>A general should know better - 'tis true - when speaking in his official
>capacity or inferred official capacity when wearing his/her uniform.
>However, this analogy is so far removed from what he actually said that
> I can't really see its place here.

He spoke in his dress uniform at a speech with reporters present and said that Islamic extremists hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christians. ... And the enemy is a guy named Satan." Think that might help Al Qaeda get a few more recruits? Think their message that the US really is out to destroy Islam might make a little more sense to people who are on the fence?

Given that people in Iraq are dying (4 more today) because there are terrorists who believe just that - yes, he should know better.

(update) Apparently he did - I just found out he issued an apology. Good for him.

[TheAnvil 0]

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I won't bore you with definitions of jihad and infidel; they're available on-line.

Perhaps you should read them.

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Because a holy war with 10,000 extremists will kill more americans than a war with 1000 extremists - and saying that it really is a religious war will create more extremists. If you were fighting a race war in another country, and a leader of that country stood up and said "It's a war between the whites and those who follow satan" - do you think that might intensify the conflict?

To answer your question - no, I don't identify myself by my race, much to the chagrin of democrats everywhere. WRT your supposed point about increasing the # of extremists against us, I again refer you to the latest FCUK ads. Or the latest issue of Maxim. Either one would arouse more anger than the words of a previously little known general.

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He spoke in his dress uniform at a speech with reporters present and said that Islamic extremists hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christians. ... And the enemy is a guy named Satan." Think that might help Al Qaeda get a few more recruits? Think their message that the US really is out to destroy Islam might make a little more sense to people who are on the fence?

Hmm...again, I don't see that. Fill in the '...' and perhaps I would, but I doubt it. The US IS a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Say what you like, that bit of history is pretty hard to ignore.

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Given that people in Iraq are dying (4 more today) because there are terrorists who believe just that - yes, he should know better.

Anytime soldiers die it is sad. Terrorists are slime and should be eradicated.

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(update) Apparently he did - I just found out he issued an apology. Good for him.

I'll read it then pass judgement. I don't think any was necessary - other than for that idol comment.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[bodypilot90 0]

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with no hope being high on the list

So now the terrorists are just victims, how sad!

[bodypilot90 0]

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Americans (that would be US-Americans) inherited one of the best places to settle on earth. There are millions of people on earth who work just as hard as Americans, with no chance whatsoever of much of what we can assume we will get.

you left out thier form of gov't all the failed ones, communism, socialism, ect dosen't work and that plays a roll as well. But they are victims too, right?

[bodypilot90 0]

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I don't know why he hates us so bad. After all some of his countrymen are there too.

Because he's not here he's stuck there.

[bodypilot90 0]

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These things should be measured in % of GNI/GDP or per Capita in order to understand the priority an issue has in this countries policies

says who? We give enough, period

[bodypilot90 0]

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You think I could gather the 65 signatures and $3500 to get on the ballot?

I throw in 10 bucks

[bodypilot90 0]

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The economy is up?

It's at least starting to stabilize, which is nice. I don't think the economy has very much to do with who's running the government though.

can be explained in 2 words tax cut

[bodypilot90 0]

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I don't think we've ever had one of them. Maybe Carter, who was often criticized for being so boring.

I don't know he had a brother named Billy, that wasn't you was it, he did have a beer named after him Just kidding btw congrats on your wedding

[bodypilot90 0]

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I may be taking a wild guess here, but from say, about 90% of your posts, I would have to guess you are a right-wing, conservative kind of guy?

lol na not me I was a dem until they left me. To many groups from the far far left in control of the dems. But i have heard it said a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

[bodypilot90 0]

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If EVERYONE of all faiths would allow other people of all faiths to live in peace without stupid racist/religeous bigotry then maybe the world could finally be at peace.

and how long will you hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

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the good General is supposedly a christian

so God is away and left you in charge, you are doing what you said he is doing, right?

in your own words

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God gets to judge

He is free to express how ever he feels when off duty, period. Was not your rant about goose stepping. Seems like what you are doing here!

[billvon 2,426]

>Perhaps you should read them.

(sigh)

Jihad - A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
Infidel - An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.

So yes, saying you're at war with a religious enemy who does not believe in Judeo-Christian religions is a jihad, going by the dictionary.

>To answer your question - no, I don't identify myself by my race . . .

Good! But I didn't ask that. I asked if you think that making an inflammatory comment about race might exacerbate a race war. A yes or no will suffice.

>Hmm...again, I don't see that. Fill in the '...' and perhaps I would, but I doubt it. The US IS a nation
>founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Say what you like, that bit of history is pretty hard to ignore.

Perhaps a perusal of the constitution, written by those founding christians, might reveal a hint that we specifically did NOT want to include official acknowledgement of any particular religion - even thought the founders might have believed a partucular one.

>Anytime soldiers die it is sad. Terrorists are slime and should be eradicated.

Agreed. We should also not go out of our way to make more of them.

[billvon 2,426]

>The bottom line is that they declared war on us. Remember 9/11?

I remember it very well. Quick test for you:

9/11 was organized by:

-Bin Laden
-Saddam Hussein

The 9/11 terrorists came primarily from:

-Saudi Arabia
-Iraq

The organization that pulled off 9/11 was rooted in:

-Afghanistan
-Iraq

If you answered "Hussein" and "Iraq" - congratulations! You've helped a man who killed 3000 americans to escape justics.

[Gawain 0]

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You've helped a man who killed 3000 americans to escape justics.

The US can walk and chew gum at the same time. We have forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, just to provide a partial list. Our war in Iraq has not diminished our activity in Afghanistan, though I suspect that media has more to do with that.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

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He is free to express how ever he feels when off duty, period. Was not your rant about goose stepping. Seems like what you are doing here!

He is not "off duty" if he is spealking at a public function... invited there BECAUSE of his position.... and he was in DRESS UNIFORM.

So how is your goose step. You certainly will spout the party line... often... as seen here... I guess your dues in the party are all paid up. My how well that highlystuffed, starched and tailored brown shirt fits you.

Jeanne

[bodypilot90 0]

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He is not "off duty" if he is spealking at a public function... invited there BECAUSE of his position.... and he was in DRESS UNIFORM.

He was OFF DUTY and He WAS speaking because of he on of the history and current events as it relates to end time prophecy. He was not speaking as a MILITARY PERSON he was speaking as a FREE PERSON living in the US. Just because it pissed some off because it is not in lock step with the pc crowd.

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I guess your dues in the party are all paid up. My how well that highlystuffed, starched and tailored brown shirt fits you

nope I believe the N.O.W. got all the brown shirts and skirts.

[kmcguffee 0]

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I think that comment is foolish as well.

Well then, why do you only start threads that:
1. Show the current administration in a bad light or
2. Show a conservative or religious US person in a bad light?

The "politically correct", "blame America First", "America is responsible for all the world's problems" crowd is just using this to try and justify their positions. They quietly ignore all of the crap being flung by liberal national leaders and public figures in other countries. The liberals are so scared of offending someone they don't say anything controversial unless it is aimed at a conservative. What this general said wasn't very bright but it is getting way more press than it deserves.

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I do have a problem with one of our military leaders saying the US is engaged in a jihad.

I must have missed the Jihad part. Jihad is a Muslim religious term for a mighty struggle in the name of Allah. It doesn't exist in the Christian religion. Also, US military officers don't determine the types of wars the US fights on a strategic level. That is the decision of the elected civilian officials. He could claim we are engaged in a war with Martians for control of the Force in the name of Drax if he wants to. He doesn't have any control over those types of decisions.

We need to quit worrying about whether we are offending the terrorists. If some people in the country would spend as much time trying to stop terrorism as they did in trying to sabotage the current effort we might get somewhere.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[kallend 1,646]

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Back to the initial un-hijacked topic of this thread for a moment - Interesting article on double-standards in the media:

http://www.investors.com/editorial/issues.asp?v=10/17

- Jeff

I had posted a link to an AP wire which reported the PMs remarks. Our own Congressional leadership has commented on the slant of the media, specifically as it pertains to Iraq. It's getting to point that saying the media has bias, is just like calling water "wet"...

Well, you'd expect bias when you see who owns the major media outlets. Rupert Murdoch comes immediately to mind as one of the worst.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,646]

Think you give too much to the world's poor? Take a look at:

www.globalrichlist.com/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,426]

>They quietly ignore all of the crap being flung by liberal national
>leaders and public figures in other countries.

Not at all. I am a citizen of the US, not a citizen of Malaysia - therefore I care more about what my government does than what Malaysia does.

>I must have missed the Jihad part. Jihad is a Muslim religious term for
>a mighty struggle in the name of Allah. It doesn't exist in the Christian
>religion.

But it does exist in the dictionary, and the definition includes a war aganist infidels - and again according to the dictionary, infidels can be muslim _or_ christian. I generally go by the dictionary rather than by how the conservative press uses a word.

>We need to quit worrying about whether we are offending the terrorists.

I agree; we do need to worry about offending people who are NOT terrorists so much that they BECOME terrorists, though. Again, it will save US lives.

>If some people in the country would spend as much time trying to stop
>terrorism as they did in trying to sabotage the current effort we might
>get somewhere.

I agree. I designed and developed a system that can be used to send live video back from aircraft via satellite, for purposes of airline security. We demoed that system to Congress last year. I've also worked on a small-diameter guided missile, the EF111 CDU (control and display unit), the F-14E FAST avionics tester, and I helped design the A-6F attack radar system.

What did you do?

[Amazon 7]

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He was OFF DUTY and He WAS speaking because of he on of the history and current events as it relates to end time prophecy. He was not speaking as a MILITARY PERSON he was speaking as a FREE PERSON living in the US. Just because it pissed some off because it is not in lock step with the pc crowd.

Seems to me I remember when I was OFF DUTY... I did not wear my uniform....but I guess that was just me...

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nope I believe the N.O.W. got all the brown shirts and skirts.

Gee I love little stabs like that... since its completely off the mark.. but it shows your hatred of women as well as others in your posts...

As for me.. I belong to the NRA.. not NOW...
But what the heck, the guys like you and John Ashcroft.... I am just waiting for you to come up with a flashy new slogan for the 21st Century... since the old one in the 20th century was over used, Seig Heil. But it was good for killing millions before.. maybe the new one will get a lot more human beings this time... not just the ones who use THIER( the bad guys) term of ALLAH AKBAR.


Never underestimate the power of a snappy little catch phrase.
So anyone have any guesses as to what our current administrations snappy little addition to history is going to be????
Jeanne

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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I agree. I designed and developed a system that can be used to send live video back from aircraft via satellite, for purposes of airline security. We demoed that system to Congress last year. I've also worked on a small-diameter guided missile, the EF111 CDU (control and display unit), the F-14E FAST avionics tester, and I helped design the A-6F attack radar system.

What did you do?

I'm quite sure this comment will not be touched by the addressee, so I'd just like to say "Noice."

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Zenister 0]

what part of "in uniform" dont you get?

if you are wearing it you represent the U.S. Military. Always and everywhere and are expected to act accordingly.

you are specifically prohibited from wearing it at political demonstrations.
public speaking, even in a church, IS a political demonstration.

his veiws are not in question, he is entitled to them.

He is not entitled to wear that uniform while expressing those views in a manner that does not represent everyone who has ever worn it.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[TheAnvil 0]

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Jihad - A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
Infidel - An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.

So yes, saying you're at war with a religious enemy who does not believe in Judeo-Christian religions is a jihad, going by the dictionary.

I don't recall the General stating we were at war with Islam. We're at war with Islamic extremists.

Also, a jihad is a MUSLIM holy war. The last time I looked the US is a secular nation whose congress is forbidden from enacting any law respecting an establishment of religion. The US as a nation state is incapable of engaging in jihad by its own constitution.

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>To answer your question - no, I don't identify myself by my race . . .

Good! But I didn't ask that. I asked if you think that making an inflammatory comment about race might exacerbate a race war. A yes or no will suffice.

Yes - for those that identify themselves by their race. But their own racial prejudice is their problem. They should learn to live with it. I refuse to mitigate my actions due to the racial prejudices of others.

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Perhaps a perusal of the constitution, written by those founding christians, might reveal a hint that we specifically did NOT want to include official acknowledgement of any particular religion - even thought the founders might have believed a partucular one.

Are you actually taking the position that the US was NOT founded upon Judeo-Christian principles? Dear Lord man! Dost thou truly thinketh me that ignorant of history? READ the Declaration of Independence, The Federalist Papers, Madison's letters, Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists (we all know how the ACLU loves this onehttp://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html),
or any other writings of the time.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[wmw999 2,146]

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Are you actually taking the position that the US was NOT founded upon Judeo-Christian principles?

Those were the principles they knew. Their inherent assumptions included the non-equality of Blacks and women. Only white guys participated. They reflected the society of the time, and they appear to have been forward-thinking enough to try to foresee a time when their preconceptions were not necessarily good guides.

Which means that if we are going to treat these documents as holy writ (they really aren't -- they're a basis), then we need to try to abstract the ideas from the people, and not try to say that the society that produced them, or the preconceptions that produced them, or the type of people that produced, them, are examples of what we should aspire to in any other than an intellectual or political sense.

Heck, given the current state of politics and public service in the US, that's plenty challenging.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)