0
sundevil777

Radical (or mainstream?) Islamic hatred

Recommended Posts

Quote

I think your forgetting there was no Israel 48-49 years ago.



Not forgetting at all. Fortunately, my ancestors had the good sense to get out of Russia and go to Chicago when the Czar was blaming Jews for the bad conditions of the time.

There are a lot of countries that did not exist 50 years ago. Go back a little farther, maybe Jordan should claim the land that is now Israel (remember Trans-Jordan). The remnants of the Turkish Ottoman empire could claim what they lost, etc, etc. Go back 230 years and the US didn't exist. This is why it is so important to pick your wars carefully and to win them.

Quote

There is a reason why the Palestinians blow the shit out of the Israeli neighborhoods.



Sure, they have their reasons, are you saying that they are justified, and you agree with their stated objectives, the destruction of Israel and extermination of all Jews?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I don't mean to come over as 'British and pompous' or anything, but Americans seem to have this paralytic fear of even the word "Iran"



I love how some Europeans are able to lump all Americans under one stereotype while complaining that Americans stereotype. Seems a little ironic.

I just spent a week and a half in Europe and was really surprised by the American stereotype that is portrayed in European popular culture. Maybe they need to stop criticizing America constantly and take a look inward.

As far as all Muslims being violent, that is incorrect from my experience. I work with Arabs, mostly Muslim, on a daily basis and have found very few who support terrorism. Most do mistrust the US government but they also mistrust every other government in the world. They are quick to believe conspiracy theories because of their experiences being raised in corrupt governments. Their religion and personal friendships are the things they hold most dear. These factors make them prime targets for recruitment by extremists who have all of the answers. The Muslim extremists blowing themselves up are victims of radicals who are twisting a peaceful religion to serve their own desires.

In fact, Islam is more inclusive than Judaism or Christianity (I consider myself a Christian). In Islam, Jews and Christians will go to heaven. They will not receive the same reward as Muslims but they will not go to hell. Christianity, I'm not sure about Judaism, believes that if you are not a Christian you will go to hell.

I had a local Imam tell me that if they (the terrorists) don't like the US then they should get the fuck out of the country. I almost fell out of my seat.


"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see you have edited your post and have taken out the remark about my spelling.
If I remember it was something like I would seem more educated if I use my spell check correct?

My spelling is so bad that sometimes the spell checker doesn't help. Just because my writing skills (in English) are not up to par with you doesn't mean i am not educated. (the arrogance kills me).


“You have the ability to be an activist for whatever political party you want. They can even win (Ventura winning the MN governorship for example, there are some advocates of the socialist party agenda-even some members of socialist party organizations as members of congress).”


Just in case you were not paying attention last election the number of votes didn’t matter.
So please don’t give me a speech about how any one can win and money is not a factor. If you believe that you are fooling your self or just learned a stock answer to give. Do you honestly think that someone can start a political party and have even a fighting chance agents the rich that control every thing. Please don’t Bs me or your self.


“The Arabs were on the wrong side of WWII.”

Sorry the Arabs. How about just calling all of the people in the Middle East Tan people. Why have to think and actually know what country we are talking about. Sorry I don’t remember the Palestinians involvement in WWII what battle were they inn to deserve to have their homes taken from them?

Here is a little insight in to why Palestinians don’t like Israel. They get told where to live and trust me the nice spots are saved for the Israelis. They only get the jobs that the Israelis do not want. Most of the time they have no choice but to do these jobs if they want work no matter how degrading or over qualified they are for them. They have to be up at 3 am to make the bus trip they get there passes checked work a days work for shit pay and get bused back.
More facts a few months back an Israeli military operation ended up killing many children. Sharon called the operation a success. Only after pursuer from our president did he say he was sad for what had happened(obviously for political reasons)
There was also an American girl who got killed by an Israeli tank as she was trying to stop the tank from destroying a house that had people in it.. The story that most people heard was that the tank driver did not see her. I was in my car when I heard the live report on NPR and the live broadcast told a much different story.
You are wrong for thinking I have chosen a “SIDE”.
I wish it was that easy but life is not in black and white there are many shades of gray. I am a realest I do not believe what CNN tells me. I always like pretend I am the other person what would I do if I had been threw what they have. Walk a mile in there shoe so to speak.
I love this country as I have said many times. But I will not blindly follow the mass like sheep(sorry clay)
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Sure, they have their reasons, are you saying that they are justified, and you agree with their stated objectives, the destruction of Israel and extermination of all Jews?



I have not once used the name Jews. Because that is the main problem. This is a land dispute it is sad that religions even got involved here.
I see someone else has already posted this but i will remind you that there is a lot of Christian Palestinians
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I see you have edited your post and have taken out the remark about my spelling.
If I remember it was something like I would seem more educated if I use my spell check correct?



Yes, I thought it rude, so I deleted it.

Quote

Just in case you were not paying attention last election the number of votes didn’t matter.



The Constitution clearly describes how the votes matter. Some would change the method, you can join their cause.

Quote

So please don’t give me a speech about how any one can win and money is not a factor. If you believe that you are fooling your self or just learned a stock answer to give. Do you honestly think that someone can start a political party and have even a fighting chance agents the rich that control every thing. Please don’t Bs me or your self.



Sure money is a factor. If others agree with a new political viewpoint, they must spend money in order to get that viewpoint out for others to see and consider.

As I said before, Ventura was not given a chance, he won. You can help out the socialist agenda, they do have a significant foothold in this country.

It seems to me you have BS'd yourself into not thinking you can affect change in this country. Given your views I wish this were true, but it is not.

“The Arabs were on the wrong side of WWII.”

Quote

Sorry the Arabs. How about just calling all of the people in the Middle East Tan people.



Ever head of the Arab League? United Arab Emirates? They associate themselves all the time as Arabs. This is common language used by their leaders, from Arafat, the Saud's and others.

Yes, the Arabs were on the wrong side of WWII.

They chose the path of war, they don't like to live with the consequences.

They have rejected the offers of peace that were incredibly close to all of their supposed demands. Finally some Palestinian lower level leaders are starting to admit that their path is one of self-destruction.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
“Yes, I thought it rude, so I deleted it.”


I appreciate you not being rude. Even if it was tempting at first.
I enjoy intelligent discussion and not name-calling. So thank you for editing your post.

“Sure money is a factor. If others agree with a new political viewpoint, they must spend money in order to get that viewpoint out for others to see and consider.”

I wish it was not a factor. I wish what is right was a factor.


I do wish that religion was never broth in to the Israeli and Palestine battle. It is only a land dispute. Unfortunately when you do put names as Muslims and Jews it takes another form. No matter what happens people of one of the religions seem to take one side.
Me like I said before am not taking sides. I am simply stating facts. I truly don’t think that the normal people in Palestine and Israel want war. No one wants war.
In any situation I look at the facts. I have seen much footage of the Palestinians throwing rocks and the Israelis shooting M-16 it is easy to guess who is doing more damage and who has the power.
When you chose to blow your self up it means you have run out of all options.
I also know there is eliminates on Both sides that seem to fuk up any peace process.

I personally feel the same sadness when I hear a Palestinian child has been killed as when I hear an Israeli child has been killed. That’s why I can’t take sides. It is absolute ignorance to think one side is a hundred percent right or wrong. It is when people decide what side they are on that we have war. When there is no side and there is discussion we can have peace. You and me will not agree on many things. I do hope that we can agree that human life (Jewish, Muslim, Christine, Satan worshipper who ever) is more valuable then any amount of money, that peace is better then war, and a human life has the same value no matter what religion.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yea millions hate Americans but not only Muslims hate Americans, people of all religions across the world hate America and Americans. Being honest I heard quite a few white anglo saxon christian Brits saying that America got a taste of its own medicine on 9/11. (I neither hate Americans nor condone in anyway the attrocities of 9/11, just making a point here).
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>And the murders of a few abortion "doctors" over a few decades is in
> ANY way comparable to the daily murder of innocent men, women
> and kids around the world, right?

Murder is murder; and if you can claim the actions of a handful of Arabs defines their religion as violent, I claim the "Army of God" defines christians as just as violent. They advocate murder of doctors in the name of god.

And if you want to try to compare numbers - try comparing the number of people killed during the crusades, during which christians killed arabs in the name of god. Around nine million dead all told if I recall correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

America got a taste of its own medicine on 9/11



Terro= when the bad guys hit the good guys.. now who is good and who is bad?and who deside it?:S

only one thing is sure.. all the inocent people pays the price[:/]

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Imagine away, but you won't see such a doll simply because the vast majority of Christian children in the US aren't taught to HATE other people based on religion, unlike certain other populations that subscribe to other faiths



Of course we won't. That's because we make photoshopped pics of Hussein with catchy phrases taken from common advertising slogans or flash movies of UBL being bombed to hell then distribute them to all our friends, family and favorite chat sites.


Nope, we're different cause WE'RE better than them.


Just out of curiousity, but has anyone else noticed that the reports coming out of Iraq have been referring to the enemy as insurgents and rebels now instead of terrorists? Just wondering.
I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Murder is murder



1=1 also. Both are examples of the identity principle. However killing someone is not always murder.

Quote

if you can claim the actions of a handful of Arabs defines their religion as violent, I claim the "Army of God" defines christians as just as violent. They advocate murder of doctors in the name of god.



Those who kill abortion providers in the name of god are treated as criminals and punished within our own justice system. Their methods of opposing abortion are not popular.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are large organizations that are quite popular in the Arab world by comparison. They actually get a seat at a table with the Palestinian Authority, and are encouraged to implement a cease fire (not exactly treated like criminals).

Can you see the difference?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

And if you want to try to compare numbers - try comparing the number of people killed during the crusades, during which christians killed arabs in the name of god. Around nine million dead all told if I recall correctly.



My point was to compare numbers, and I agree that killing in the name of any religion is a bad thing. I can't even comprehend how people justifiy it. Had I lived during the crusades, I might object to their actions. But today, it's homicide bonbers walking onto buses filled with women and kids.


. . =(_8^(1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Those who kill abortion providers in the name of god are treated as
> criminals and punished within our own justice system. Their methods
> of opposing abortion are not popular.

Many are not caught and are revered, even worshipped by the Army of God. The ones that are caught are supported through donations.

>Hamas and Islamic Jihad are large organizations that are quite
>popular in the Arab world by comparison. They actually get a seat at
> a table with the Palestinian Authority, and are encouraged to
> implement a cease fire (not exactly treated like criminals).

Just as radical anti-abortion groups here are allowed to lobby congress, even when they say things like "I remain committed to non-violent direct action to intervene for the babies. But I cannot condemn Paul Hill's (doctor-killer) actions either by Scripture or by civil law."

The Army of God is a radical christian sect that both endorses and helps commit murder. Hamas is a radical Islamic sect that does the same thing. The Army of God does not represent all christians and Hamas does not represent all Moslems.

Personally I work with half a dozen arabs, including one Sikh guy, a woman from Iraq, a guy from Iran, one guy from Syria or Jordan, and one guy from Saudi Arabia. They would no sooner blow up a bus than you would. Judging them by the actions of terrorist groups makes as much sense as judging you by the actions of the Army of God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill,

You and BBkid need to read a little. I have a full leather bound Koran.
Please show me in the Bible where it calls for the "Crusades" to occur. Please show me where it calls for the "Army of God" to be formed.

After you do so I'll send you a few passages from the books in the Koran.

There is a big difference between "Religion" and God.
The Old Testament tells of many battles of good against evil, the New Testament tells of "Love" as the greatest command. Try reading the Bible, then the Koran and you decide. It's called free will and free choice.

Post away, I'll keep you in my prayers.

Blues,

J.E.
James 4:8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Koran calls for war as a last result.
I have said this many times. Islam is not about peace Muslims are not hippies. Islam is about Justice.
Islam is about not letting people walk all over you it is about standing up for what is right.

The people who were responsible for the crusades did consider them self’s as Christine’s even if there actions were not. Same goes for terrorist that murder innocent people. They might think they are Muslims but there action are not very Muslim like.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Just as radical anti-abortion groups here are allowed to lobby congress, even when they say things like "I remain committed to non-violent direct action to intervene for the babies. But I cannot condemn Paul Hill's (doctor-killer) actions either by Scripture or by civil law."

The Army of God is a radical christian sect that both endorses and helps commit murder. Hamas is a radical Islamic sect that does the same thing. The Army of God does not represent all christians and Hamas does not represent all Moslems.



Local and federal prosecuters and lawmakers are trying to apply existing laws and/or create new laws that can clearly be used to punish 'enablers'. When groups such as NAMBLA are difficult to stop with existing laws and their interpretation by the courts I can understand that stopping the army of God can be difficult. At least we are trying, and the public overwelmingly agrees.

Contrast this to the Palestinian Authority, who call leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad in to 'ask' for a cease-fire, after agreeing to 'dismantle' these same organizations. Why can't they be dismantled? The PA says that they don't have the power/ability to do so, that a civil war would result.

Do you see a difference?

Quote

Personally I work with half a dozen arabs, including one Sikh guy, a woman from Iraq, a guy from Iran, one guy from Syria or Jordan, and one guy from Saudi Arabia. They would no sooner blow up a bus than you would. Judging them by the actions of terrorist groups makes as much sense as judging you by the actions of the Army of God.



Of course I don't judge individual you work with by the actions of terrorist groups. I also work with some arabs, and they aren't going to blow up a bus either. However they do have sympathy for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the brigades, etc.

Have you ever heard an Arab leader denounce a terrorist action? They do it all the time right? I have heard a certain reporter then repeatedly ask the same leader if they condemn the organization. The leader tries to spin around the question, they will not denounce the group doing the action. You see the group is good in their eyes, the action is misguided by those with proper intentions.

It is kinda like the fact that in this country showing any racism will ensure that you cannot be elected to political office, and even in the business world is no way to advance yourself. Do you think support for Hamas is a help or hindrance to gaining political office in some parts of the Arab world.

Do you see the difference?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Please show me in the Bible where it calls for the "Crusades" to
> occur.

"He who sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." Exodus 22:20

>Please show me where it calls for the "Army of God" to be
> formed.

??? nowhere. Just as the Koran never mentions hamas. A few other quotes for you from the New King James version of the bible:


Exodus:

"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - You could justify a lot of killing in the name of the LORD with that one.

Leviticus:

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death." - So kill all the gays, basically.

"You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you." - Interestingly, he was speaking to the Israelites.

Book of Numbers:

"But Moses was angry with the officers of the army, with the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from the battle. And Moses said to them: "Have you kept all the women alive? Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately."

Deuteronomy:

"When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire.

"If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the LORD your God gives you to dwell in, saying, "Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods"'--which you have not known-- then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock--with the edge of the sword."



But enough of old testament doom and gloom. Perhaps you have heard this more modern Christian ditty, a favorite of our president's:

Mine eyes have seen the glory
Of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage
Where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning
Of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
. . .
I have read a fiery gospel writ
In burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with My contemners,
So with you My grace shall deal":
Let the Hero born of woman
Crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
. . .
In the beauty of the lilies
Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom
That transfigures you and me;
As He died to make men holy,
Let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.

-----------------------------------------------------

None of this is to say that the bible is an inherently evil document; indeed, the new testament sends quite a different message. That's the danger of reading too much into any one passage of a book like that. The bible is at once a rule book, history book, code of ethics, attempt at an explanation of the physical world, and binding document for several religions. Not everything in it is supposed to be followed literally; indeed, much of it is now illegal or goes against everything modern religions stand for. (Kill the children and rape the virgins??)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>Christianity is a religion where God sent His Son to die for us.
>Islam is a religion where God sends your son to die for Him.

Christanity is a religion where God sends your son to kill abortion doctors, apparently.



The above is one of the reasons that I dislike you so very much Billvon. You constantly take things out of context to "prove" your anti-christian beliefs. You are guilty of the same text that you moderate against. You are the biggest troll here. I don't feel that you should be a moderator if you cant even control yourself. I call for your resignation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In a little over fifty years the Isrealis have taken a little tiny piece of desert and made a country that has defeated all the might that the Arab world has thrown against them.
On the other hand, the Arabs/muslims have sought with all their oil wealth and might to do nothing but destroy Isreal and the west while doing nothing to help the Pallies except arm them.
If you take away the oil, the Arabs have created nothing to sustain themselves. They would become wandering nomads again. They are still living in 700 AD and want to stay there.
Am I missing something here? I think they are. They are like kids born into money who never had to work for it. Say, like the Menendez bros who killed their parents for the money saying they were abused.
The Isrealis, on the other hand, did usefull things with the aid they recieved and built a functioning country out of sand.
Now the Arabs/muslims swear to destroy them and us for helping.
Green glass parking lot. Problem solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First every thing they have there military power was given to them by the U.S. They did not invent F-16, M-16, and even there nuclear weapons are MADE IN THE USA. Just in case you didn’t know the U.S. chooses who they well sale what to. In today’s war numbers and bravery don’t matter it is all about technology. No matter how much of a good pilot you are you will die if you chose to fight an F-18 with a Mig-21, and when ever countries that are mostly Muslim try to get ahead with technology they are stopped by the countries that already have the power.
For example Iran who is trying to start a nuclear power plant. Offcourse we say they are trying to make weapons weapons that we already have and have given to the Israelis. Weapons that we are the only ones who have used. Knowing it would kill innocent people.



“If you take away the oil, the Arabs have created nothing to sustain themselves. They would become wandering nomads again. They are still living in 700 AD and want to stay there.”


Actually if you do a little research you well see that most items invented in America were not invented by Americans. So if your trying to say Muslims or people from the Middle East are not smart enough or not as smart as you are you need to look again. The Iranian minority in the U.S. is the most educated minority in this country. If you don’t believe me go to Beverly Hills or any ware in the LA area.

“They are still living in 700 AD and want to stay there.”

I had no idea you have visited every country in the region. The few I have been too are a lot more modern then you think. Camels are not the main form of transportation any more if that’s what you are trying to say. But then again when your only form of information is Hollywood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

No matter how much of a good pilot you are you will die if you chose to fight an F-18 with a Mig-21



A lot of Israeli victories were a long time before such weapons, the US and Soviet jet fighters of the Korean war to Vietnam war era were very well matched, some say the US machinery at times was not as capable. Soviets supplied the Arabs, US supplied Israel. Typical stuff in the cold war. The Israelis did it with good strategy, tactics, and a well motivated military. They didn't do it with superior numbers.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"They didn't do it with superior numbers. "

that’s exactly what i said it was not a matter of numbers.
And as far as i recall the U.S. backed Israel from the beginning. If you have an A bomb and i don't you win.

The Israeli government has said many times that they will
use all there power including nuclear weapons. I think any country who sees that as an option of defending it self wile not being threatened by nuclear weapons. Should not have such a weapon.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0