How to know if an AAD fired?

[MakeItHappen 15]

If an AAD fired, what does the display window say?

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[chutingstar 1]

On the Argus it states:

Replc Cutter

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[DiverMike 5]

Thanks. Now I know what to look for.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[theonlyski 3]

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If an AAD fired, what does the display window say?

Looking at the manuals (and since Mike covered the Argus):

Vigil2 says: Cut Err: If the «Cut Err» message appears, the cutter unit must be replaced (see § 7.2). A new cutter will be supplied free of charge if a completed “Life Saving Report” is posted and approved (see our website http://www.vigil.aero/ on the download page).

Cypres2: 1111 or 2222: One or both of the attached release units are not correctly electrically connected to the unit. The reason may be a cable break,
the cutter plug could be disconnected, or the release unit(s) may have activated.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[MakeItHappen 15]

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If an AAD fired, what does the display window say?

Looking at the manuals (and since Mike covered the Argus):

Vigil2 says: Cut Err: If the «Cut Err» message appears, the cutter unit must be replaced (see § 7.2). A new cutter will be supplied free of charge if a completed “Life Saving Report” is posted and approved (see our website http://www.vigil.aero/ on the download page).

Cypres2: 1111 or 2222: One or both of the attached release units are not correctly electrically connected to the unit. The reason may be a cable break,
the cutter plug could be disconnected, or the release unit(s) may have activated.

Those are the errors that come from the start up self-test procedure.
I am asking what the display would say when the AAD fires and you get to the ground. What does the display say then?

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[MakeItHappen 15]

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On the Argus it states:

Replc Cutter

Mike

Is that after a self test or after it fired and then you look at the display?

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[chutingstar 1]

After it fires and you look at the display.

ChutingStar.com

[riggerrob 613]

Call me a luddite, but I just look at the closing loop and cutter.
If the closing loop is broken, chances are the AAD fired.
If I cannot see through the cutter, chances are it fired.
If the power cable looks really short - on an FXC 12000, chances are it fired.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Call me a luddite, but I just look at the closing loop and cutter.
If the closing loop is broken, chances are the AAD fired.
If I cannot see through the cutter, chances are it fired.
If the power cable looks really short - on an FXC 12000, chances are it fired.

For those of you that are not hip to current events,
the question is about looking at the display after an aad has fired and *maybe* has not separated the closing loop completely.
So you would not know that it fired and in many configurations you cannot see the cutter without opening the reserve.
This information would be useful during your pre-jump gear check that should always include checking AAD window.

For a CYPRES- the answer is that the CYPRES records data on the jump, to activation and then to 130 ft AGL. It then turns off.
So after a jump in which it fires the screen would be blank. (source SSK - Cliff Schumcker)

For an ARGUS - screen says 'replc cutter' source (Chuting Star - Mike Gruwell)

Don't know yet what a Vigil would say. Still awaiting replies from inquiries.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[koppel 4]

on a slightly sideways not if you disconnect the cutter afterit completes the self test on a Cypres or an Argus there is no change in the screen display.

Checked this after a friend of mine had a Cypres he was buying taken out of a Mirage only to find that the cutter was broken where the black plastic meets the metal of the cylinder. It turned on fine and did the self test fine as the ends of the cables were touching but who knows if it would have worked or not.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[jurgencamps 0]

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If an AAD fired, what does the display window say?

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Argus automatic switches off due to an activated cutter.

[piisfish 137]

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If an AAD fired, what does the display window say?

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Argus automatic switches off due to an activated cutter.

are you sure ? another source says something else :

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For an ARGUS - screen says 'replc cutter' source (Chuting Star - Mike Gruwell)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[shropshire 0]

The ground is close and there is a Light Blue canopy above my head

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[theonlyski 3]

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The ground is close and the is a Light Blue canopy above my head

I'm surprised this is even brought up... Unless its a Javelin or similar where the control display is on the back pad, I don't wanna look at the controller when it fires....

Spring loaded pilot chute TO THE FACE!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[-ftp- 0]

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Call me a luddite, but I just look at the closing loop and cutter.
If the closing loop is broken, chances are the AAD fired.
If I cannot see through the cutter, chances are it fired.
If the power cable looks really short - on an FXC 12000, chances are it fired.

and what if its a cylidrical cutter placed on top of the pilot chute and has fired but not severed the closing loop? Chances are you jump and need your reserve, you're a dead man.

[popsjumper 2]

Jan,
The Vigil...

After firing and upon landing it says:
"Rpl Ctr"

Turn it off and then back on and, when it gets to the cutter check, it says,
"Cutter Err"

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BrianM 1]

A local jumper had a cutaway and reserve deployment yesterday, and gave me the gear to repack. He has a CYPRES 1. I looked at the control and saw that the display was blank (this was about 10 or 15 minutes after the jump). I looked at the cutter and saw that it had fired. I turned on the CYPRES, and it passed the self test. Surprised, I turned it off and on several more times, and it passed the test each time.

I disconnected the cutter and turned it on. It displayed an 8997 error code as expected.

I plugged the fired cutter back in and turned it on. It gave me an 8997 error code.

I plugged in a good cutter, and it passed the self test.

I plugged the fired cutter back in, and I got the 8997 error code again.

This raises two questions:
1 - Why did the CYPRES pass the self test with a fired cutter?
2 - Why did I get different results with the same fired cutter?

It seems it is possible for a CYPRES to pass a self-test with a fired cutter.

I have contacted Airtec and SSK and will post here when I hear from them,

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[BrianM 1]

A very quick reply from Airtec (about five hours after I emailed them):

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Thanks for your e-mail concerning the Cypres 1 showing none error code.

Basically the cutter connection and operative status is checked by metering the internal conductivity resistance (Ohm). This means we electrically check the Firing pellet .
Upon ignition from an electric pulse, the firing pellet initiates the combustion of the propellant. This is a chemical process, but not entirely complete directly after activation. The debris (burn-off) is still conductive for a short period of time. This time can vary due to ambient temperature and age of the charge/ cutter.

What you have experienced is the result of the resistance check during the chemical decay. This rarely causes CYPRES temporarily to sense a measurable resistance and prompting no error code. After the chemical decomposition of the burn-off is completed the electrical conductivity is lost, now the resistance check detects the faulty cutter during the self test and prompts the error code correctly.

We know about the rare appearance of this temporary phenomenon, there is nothing wrong with the computing circuit. The Cypres can be taken to service without any sepsis, the functionality of the CYPRES is not affected.
We know this is a little less than perfect, but not to avoid.

I hope this clearly explained your case, if you have any further questions do not hesitate to contact me anytime.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[pchapman 278]

That's another completely reasonable explanation from Airtec, which is good, but again it is one of those frustrating things they don't seem to tell you about -- "we know better, just trust us, you don't need the details".

[Squeak 17]

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That's another completely reasonable explanation from Airtec, which is good, but again it is one of those frustrating things they don't seem to tell you about -- "we know better, just trust us, you don't need the details".

I dont think it's a reasonable explaination at all.
In the question posed previous, an incomplete cut loop can (from what has been shown here) go undetected for quite a considerable time. enough time for at least another jump to be made on the system, whilst it reads NO Error.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[pchapman 278]

Excuse me, I meant "reasonable" in that the explanation is not implausible. I can believe the physics of it, that this might not be uncommon for pyrotechnic cutters in general, that occasionally some residual current leakage can occur, so that a simple open/closed circuit check will not always immediately discover a fired cutter.

I haven't checked the manuals in detail, but for example the couple Cypres 2 manuals I checked don't promise any given readout after a firing. (Although 1111 or 2222 "may" indicate a fired cutter.) The skydiver community (and Airtec) has generally assumed that one doesn't need to have a readout to tell if the loop was cut -- if the container isn't open, there's a problem with your container or rigging.

Nevertheless, everyone expects AADs to do good startup error checking, and that is in the manual. ("CYPRES has fail safe-error detection")

So in that way, the situation is BAD. A startup self test essentially FAILED to find that the AAD was non functional. Startup tests are supposed to be reliable; this was NOT!

However, this is a pretty exceptional situation -- it has been very very rare that people have landed and packed and not noticed they set off their AAD. There's only danger if the Cypres cutter fails to cut (which it never seemingly has) or the gear is bad.

Still, it is bad for Airtec's image, promising one thing, and delivering another. If they had at least mentioned this in the manual, people might say that it is totally inconsequential in practice. Whether they liked that behaviour or not, at least it would "be in the manual."

[Nelyubin 0]

Vigil® One can always look at the menu info.
Saves n number of activations on your Vigil®