Line Type On Canopy

[skycamefalling 0]

I picked up a rig about a month ago and was curious as to what type of lines are used for my canopy. I meant to ask my rigger, but forgot to when I picked it back up from him. I know of the different line types, just no clue on what each look like. They are skinny, flat lines.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[IanHarrop 37]

Good information in the Riggers manual... its a big download but worth having.
Over 300 pages of information with color photos.
Information on all kinds of things including lines types.
http://www.parachutemanuals.com//index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=&func=fileinfo&id=232

Bet you can match up a picture with the lines you are looking at.

edit to add the manual is called "FAA-Handbook-8083-17"

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[firemedic 7]

What Make and Model is the Canopy and what color are the lines.

[likestojump 3]

your profile lists Sabre2 210 as your main. IF that's the case, it is almost guaranteed to have microlines (Spectra).

[skycamefalling 0]

Yeah it is a Sabre2 210. They are white lines.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[skycamefalling 0]

Quote

Good information in the Riggers manual... its a big download but worth having.
Over 300 pages of information with color photos.
Information on all kinds of things including lines types.
http://www.parachutemanuals.com//index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=&func=fileinfo&id=232

Bet you can match up a picture with the lines you are looking at.

edit to add the manual is called "FAA-Handbook-8083-17"

Thanks for the link.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[firemedic 7]

PD only makes spectra linesets for Sabres

[likestojump 3]

Quote

PD only makes spectra linesets for Sabres

that's weird, because their order form has 3 options :
order form here : http://www.performancedesigns.com/store_files/custom_formselection2.asp?dealer=SUNFAC

550 micrlone
825 microline
525 dacron

Also, I have personally seen them relined with HMA by 3rd parties. And I am quite certain people have tried vectran as well.

[erdnarob 1]

Microline or Spectra lines are made from the same fiber, both are brand names. The fiber in question is polyethelene which is stronger than the nylon fiber and is generally white (I have seen some of them dyed in blue). There is also aramid type line fibers like: Kevlar, Vectran and HMA (High Modulus Aramid [fiber]) and are engineered from carbon chemistry.
The HMA lines appear in different color like black (seen on some canopies like the Nitro), but I have seen them in blue or green on rare occasions. Generally the HMA lines are supple and light brown or beige color. Vectran lines look almost like the HMA but are a bit stiffer.
The aramid type of lines is the strongest for a given thickness.
EG. Sabre has Spectra lines or so-called Microline
Safire has Vectran lines
Katana has HMA lines.
Note: they are all offered in different sizes and they have different caracteristics. The spectra or microline lines are subject to shrinking due to the friction (from slider grommets for instance), while the aramid ones are more subject to abrasion but they keep the same length. Nylon lines have a large coefficient of elasticity while the aramid lines elasticity is very low.
Highly elliptical canopies are generally rigged with aramid lines since they are more trim sensitive (length change).
I hope that answers your question.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[masterrigger1 2]

Andre,
You have a few mistakes here.

Quote

Microline or Spectra lines are made from the same fiber, both are brand names.

Actually, Microline is an house name (brand name) used only by PD....

Spectra is a Trade Name for this specfic fiber which is in the polyethelene family.

Quote

There is also aramid type line fibers like: Kevlar, Vectran and HMA (High Modulus Aramid [fiber]) and are engineered from carbon chemistry.

Technora is the Trade name for the HMA type lines that we use.

Also Vectran, is a Liquid Crystal Polymer (LCP), not an HMA type.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[firemedic 7]

I stand corrected, I did forget about the Dacron Option for Sabre. Spectra and Dacron were offered.

[Deyan 31]

Why not HMA ot Vectran for Sabre 2? Where is the problem?

Blue skies

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Why not HMA ot Vectran for Sabre 2? Where is the problem?

Blue skies

........................................................................

I suspect that PD shot their creative wad on the Sabre 2 a decade ago. I cannot remember if HMA was fashionable when Sabre 2 was introduced, but since then PD have developed a couple more, newer, better canopies (e.g. Pulse) for that market niche.
IOW Performance Designs sealed the production configuration on Sabre 2 more than a decade ago. Re-opening the development process for an older model is counter-profitable for the factory.

Before anyone gets their panties in a twist ... I still think Sabre 2 is a decent canopy and if any sport jumper got bored with his Sabre 2, I would start by reviewing all the canopy exercises (to ensure that he had visited all the corners of the performacne envelope) and try to sell him a fresh line kit..

[erdnarob 1]

Thanks for your added details. Is Technora (Nitro lines) line not an aramid fiber ? You can have a liquid crystal and still have it engineered from carbon chemistry isn't it ? I am not a chemist but I always thought than Vectran was of aramid fiber like Kevlar and HMA.
Maybe I have to do some more research.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

I see 2 reasons:
1) Spectra lines are less expensive. HMA lines for instance are very expensive. Also the stitching of HMA lines are way more difficult especially the small type (300 lbs) adding costs of production.
2) Spectra lines have more elasticity than HMA. Elasticity is good for a Sabre which can open quite hard sometimes.
The problem is that after a while, the Spectra lines get shorter because of the friction and this way change the trim of the canopy.
Using Dacron lines does not solve the problem. After a while those lines keep memory and get longer changing the trim of the canopy.
Note: First Katana(s) were rigged with Spectra (Microline) lines. PD changed that when they were relined with HMA since the highly elliptical canopies are more "out of trim" sensitive.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

Here is my findings
1) Technora is an aramid fiber, see the link : http://www.mining technology.com/contractors/cables/teijinaramid/
2) Vectran is a high performance polyester polymer including liquid crystal. It is produced by Ticona.

Thanks to all contributors

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[P-dro 0]

Quote

I see 2 reasons:
1) Spectra lines are less expensive. HMA lines for instance are very expensive. Also the stitching of HMA lines are way more difficult especially the small type (300 lbs) adding costs of production.
2) Spectra lines have more elasticity than HMA. Elasticity is good for a Sabre which can open quite hard sometimes.

It is possible to request a brand new HMA Sabre 2 or a replacement lineset, I asked the question to PD 3 weeks ago.

I dont think HMA 300 is used much except maybe on Velocity Comp, for durability reasons. Katana for example is lined with 650 ou 500 HMA depending on the size.

today's canopies do not rely much on line elasticity to soften opening, otherwise all canopies would be lined with Dacron. And some of the softest opening canopies, like the crossfire, are Vectran-lined which has very little elasticity.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

2) Spectra lines have more elasticity than HMA.

Actually it is the other way around. I believe you are confusing the definition of elasticity with something else. A steel beam has more elasticity that Spectra.

Elasticity-the property of a body or substance that enables it to resume its original shape or size when a distorting force is removed.

[erdnarob 1]

You have to keep in mind that highly elliptical canopy openings are generally softer. I have had a Sabre 1 and then a Sabre 2. They are once in a while real slammers. After more than 300 jumps my Katana has always very soft openings. Remember also that Vectran and HMA lines are more subject to abrasion than Spectra (Microline) lines.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

Not quite Timmy. Sorry for being not clear enough. Elasticity is the capacity for a material to get its shape changed under stress (forces) and recover to the original shape when the stress is removed. Plasticity is the capacity of a material to get its shape changed under stress and to keep this change after the stress is removed.
When I speak about elasticity of a line, it is about its capacity to behave like a spring. All materials actually have both features (elasticity and plasticity) in different proportion. EG a rubber band has elasticity but also a little plasticity since after a while it get slightly longer. Same for the lines. Exception for the Spectra which shrinks due to the friction. Wet clay has more plasticity than elasticity.
BTW you definition of elasticity is OK. Thanks for your participation. The truth is not a feature of one individual. This is why a forum like this one is important.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

1) Spectra lines are less expensive.

Spectra is actually more expensive as a fiber/raw material than Technora.

You are correct is saying that the smaller line material (comp Line) is more expensive to manufacture.

This is due to the increased manhours involved in finger trapping, not sewing the 350lb and smaller lines.

Quote

Note: First Katana(s) were rigged with Spectra (Microline) lines.

PD used Dynema (a cousin to Spectra) for awhile on the Katana before switching, not Spectra.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Not quite Timmy.

My definition is quite correct as was my previous post.

Elasticity-the property of a body or substance that enables it to resume its original shape or size when a distorting force is removed.

[skycamefalling 0]

This has turned out to be a very informative thread for me. Interesting stuff to read.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.