Police Ticket-Writing Contest

[VectorBoy 0]

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AggieDave's truck is a rolling infraction of about 25 different things here in Ohio alone

Any of the infractions related to hygiene?

[Zenister 0]

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Please, share with the class. What obsolete laws carry the death penalty?

And yes, if there's a law on the books, and an officer feels it should be enforced"

perhaps you should brush up on what is actually on the books as law, and the penalties associated with them? if you are currently unaware of what you can still be charged with because there is still a 'law' against it, your entire opinion on this issue is based in ignorance, a little personal research is inorder perhaps? i'm not paid to educate you...

and when said officer has not been enforcing 'the laws' to the absolute limit until he and his buddy agree to a contest?!?!?

at that point he is no longer exercising his duty as a law enforcement officer (which he does by upholding the existing community standard, not by blindly enforcing a written code.) he is abusing the law for his own personal agenda and personal gain.

and yes he should be fired for it.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Kennedy 0]

So are you going to tell us what obsolete and outdated law carries the death penalty?

I'm calling bullshit. I think you went too far and can't back it up now.

I said those two idiots went too far in their contest. But if a cop sees a reason to give you a ticket, and there's a law against what you're doing, Tough Titties.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW, GET IT CHANGED!

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at that point he is no longer exercising his duty as a law enforcement officer (which he does by upholding the existing community standard, not by blindly enforcing a written code.)

I hate to be the one to tell you, but cops are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. Their job is to enforce the law.

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perhaps you should brush up on what is actually on the books as law, and the penalties associated with them? if you are currently unaware of what you can still be charged with because there is still a 'law' against it, your entire opinion on this issue is based in ignorance, a little personal research is inorder perhaps?

I happen to be educated in just that topic thank you, by one of the best Criminology schools in the country. I am well aware that there are scores of old law with little to no bearing today. But if you are committing an act prohibited by law, even an old law, you are committing a CRIME. And guess what? Cops are paid to find and arrest people who commit crimes.

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i'm not paid to educate you...

It would be nice if you bothered to provide evidence for your claims.
I call bullshit.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,471]

>In the case of the police enforcing existing laws, well, that's what
> they're paid to do, enforce the laws, right?

If the IRS agent gets you for taxes you don't owe, that's bad. Similarly, if a cop writes dozens of tickets for tailgating that's not going on, or failure to stop at stop signs when they in fact are stopping, that's also bad.

Of course, if they are all 100% righteous, then no problem. When I hear a contest to see who can write the most tickets, it makes me think that they are writing tickets as fast as they can pin anything on anyone.

[Zenister 0]

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So are you going to tell us what obsolete and outdated law carries the death penalty?

I'm calling bullshit. I think you went too far and can't back it up now.

I said those two idiots went too far in their contest. But if a cop sees a reason to give you a ticket, and there's a law against what you're doing, Tough Titties.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW, GET IT CHANGED!

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at that point he is no longer exercising his duty as a law enforcement officer (which he does by upholding the existing community standard, not by blindly enforcing a written code.)

I hate to be the one to tell you, but cops are LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. Their job is to enforce the law.

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perhaps you should brush up on what is actually on the books as law, and the penalties associated with them? if you are currently unaware of what you can still be charged with because there is still a 'law' against it, your entire opinion on this issue is based in ignorance, a little personal research is inorder perhaps?

I happen to be educated in just that topic thank you, by one of the best Criminology schools in the country. I am well aware that there are scores of old law with little to no bearing today. But if you are committing an act prohibited by law, even an old law, you are committing a CRIME. And guess what? Cops are paid to find and arrest people who commit crimes.

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i'm not paid to educate you...

It would be nice if you bothered to provide evidence for your claims.
I call bullshit.

really?
how about you do a little research first??
to much to ask? oh well, perhaps you've never looked into the issue before??
again, not my job to educate you, do a little looking yourself before you start throwing the BS word around? you'll end up eating it alot less..

you seem well aware of the fact there are hundreds not scores of obsolete laws, care to guess what the sentencing guidelines are that go with them??? if you cant find an example of an unenforced, still existing law that you could conceivably be given death for by an intolerant judge (sentencing is still a judicial function and after all they should be obliged to follow the letter of the law too right???and all still perfectly 'legal') in say 10 min of searching.....well again, perhaps some basic investigative skills need work before you open your mouth, with such a draconian position, actually I’m pretty sure i could find an LEO in AL to arrest you (all perfectly legally) for some obsolete offense, I don’t suppose spending a night in jail for a law written for carriages that can be ‘reasonably’ applied to your car, would bother you at all?? after all you (and nearly everyone else in the state) are criminals!! (or would have been in 1830 when the law was written, if it were still enforced)

did you look yet? no? imagine that?

is it too difficult for you to type "obsolete law" into google? and of course that doesnt cover half of the real issue....please.. sorry, cant help you, and i dont suppose anyone else should either when your about to be hanged for "salting railroad tracks" (still an active statute in AL and it is punishable by death) [I]30 sec search time, and I’ll I’m putting into it for you,[/I] but of course you don’t mind being a criminal everytime you get a blowjob either do you? How many years in prison could you be up for if you were arrested and charged for every incident thus far??

perhaps you can imagine how busy police would be and how full of innocents our prisons would be if officers did not use their judgment in enforcing the obsolete, horribly tangled legal system that still exists in our country..

just imagine all the female skydivers in FL in jail on sundays...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Gawain 0]

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In the state of Ohio it is illegal for any law enforcement agency to have quota's of any kind.

That's what's on the books. Local police throughout the state of Ohio are notorious for their enforcement of traffic laws (speed limits). Those tickets generate revenue and any cop will note that their performance is tied, in part, to how many or "how often" they are enforcing said traffic law (i.e. citations written).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[skybytch 259]

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If it happened to me, yeah, I'd have some colorful remarks for the cop, his department, his genetic makeup, etc

Hopefully not to the officer's face, while he's writing you a ticket. That's a great way to turn a simple ticket into a ride in the back of his car to a place you don't want to go.

I got what I considered to be a bogus ticket once. I kept my mouth shut while the officer was writing it, signed it and was on my way. The judge later agreed that the ticket was bogus and threw it out. Cost me a bit of my time was all. Small price to pay for all the times I did stupid, ticket-worthy shit and didn't get caught, imho.

Police officers are human. Human's can be competitive. Those two officers shouldn't have been competing in who could write the most tickets, but I can understand why they were doing it. Where they blew it was in bragging about it.

Not sure that mistake should have cost them their careers though.

[sarge 0]

In view of the opinoins expresssed thus far on this particular aspect , "...winner bragging..." I sense it is unanimous that this was inappropriate and un-professional conduct. Deserving of termination...? The enforcement philosophy of the jurisdiction is the determining factor.

Would you fire two salesmen for having a competition for most closings in a month?

Would you fire two doctors for most lives saved in a month?

Would you fire two attorneys for most clients gotten off in a month? -Well maybe yes in this case, but I digress...

-True Story- Historic- I was in traffic court one time and the judge announced at the beginning of the court-call that all tickets written by this one particular officer were dismissed. -Before hearing any of them!!!

The [former] cop that wrote them was a psycho-whack-job and 3/4 of every court call were his 'cheesy' tickets. It had gone on for almost year and after repeated warnings from the Judge, the cop continued to stop and write everyone and their mother. He bragged often about how he wrote more tickets than anyone on the department or the county for that matter (he did) and it was obvious that he was a stroke. He got more complaints than anybody else in the department or the county for that matter also!!!

Last I heard he was working a security job and trying to get on another department. Ass!

.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[Kennedy 0]

Really? You are so completely naive to the internet that because a bunch of bs websites say something, it must be true?

If you really want to see what carries a sentence of death in Alabama, how about you check a governmental source, such as is found here: http://alisdb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ACASLogin.asp

Section 13a-5-40 covers captial offenses. These include

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Capital offenses.
(a) The following are capital offenses:

(1) Murder by the defendant during a kidnapping in the first degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(2) Murder by the defendant during a robbery in the first degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(3) Murder by the defendant during a rape in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant; or murder by the defendant during sodomy in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(4) Murder by the defendant during a burglary in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(5) Murder of any police officer, sheriff, deputy, state trooper, federal law enforcement officer, or any other state or federal peace officer of any kind, or prison or jail guard, while such officer or guard is on duty, regardless of whether the defendant knew or should have known the victim was an officer or guard on duty, or because of some official or job-related act or performance of such officer or guard.

(6) Murder committed while the defendant is under sentence of life imprisonment.

(7) Murder done for a pecuniary or other valuable consideration or pursuant to a contract or for hire.

(8) Murder by the defendant during sexual abuse in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(9) Murder by the defendant during arson in the first or second degree committed by the defendant; or murder by the defendant by means of explosives or explosion.

(10) Murder wherein two or more persons are murdered by the defendant by one act or pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct.

(11) Murder by the defendant when the victim is a state or federal public official or former public official and the murder stems from or is caused by or is related to his official position, act, or capacity.

(12) Murder by the defendant during the act of unlawfully assuming control of any aircraft by use of threats or force with intent to obtain any valuable consideration for the release of said aircraft or any passenger or crewmen thereon or to direct the route or movement of said aircraft, or otherwise exert control over said aircraft.

(13) Murder by a defendant who has been convicted of any other murder in the 20 years preceding the crime; provided that the murder which constitutes the capital crime shall be murder as defined in subsection (b) of this section; and provided further that the prior murder conviction referred to shall include murder in any degree as defined at the time and place of the prior conviction.

(14) Murder when the victim is subpoenaed, or has been subpoenaed, to testify, or the victim had testified, in any preliminary hearing, grand jury proceeding, criminal trial or criminal proceeding of whatever nature, or civil trial or civil proceeding of whatever nature, in any municipal, state, or federal court, when the murder stems from, is caused by, or is related to the capacity or role of the victim as a witness.

(15) Murder when the victim is less than fourteen years of age.

(16) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon fired or otherwise used from outside a dwelling while the victim is in a dwelling.

(17) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon while the victim is in a vehicle.

(18) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon fired or otherwise used within or from a vehicle.

(b) Except as specifically provided to the contrary in the last part of subdivision (a)(13) of this section, the terms "murder" and "murder by the defendant" as used in this section to define capital offenses mean murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(1), but not as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(2) and (3). Subject to the provisions of Section 13A-5-41, murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(2) and (3), as well as murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(1), may be a lesser included offense of the capital offenses defined in subsection (a) of this section.

(c) A defendant who does not personally commit the act of killing which constitutes the murder is not guilty of a capital offense defined in subsection (a) of this section unless that defendant is legally accountable for the murder because of complicity in the murder itself under the provisions of Section 13A-2-23, in addition to being guilty of the other elements of the capital offense as defined in subsection (a) of this section.

(d) To the extent that a crime other than murder is an element of a capital offense defined in subsection (a) of this section, a defendant's guilt of that other crime may also be established under Section 13A-2-23. When the defendant's guilt of that other crime is established under Section 13A-2-23, that crime shall be deemed to have been "committed by the defendant" within the meaning of that phrase as it is used in subsection (a) of this section.

OK, I was wrong in calling bullshit, You just don't know any better than to trust every bit of text on the internet. (fyi - your opinions now mean absolutely shit to me unless you provide the link to back it up)

You won't find salting of railroad tracks in that list.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

He’s right – its called “implied repeal”. Its common belief that because the law which says “X” was never repealed it must still be law. Not so in many cases, because a new law which addresses the issue has come into force. At the end of that law there will be a section which typically says that all other laws on this topic are repealed. Even if it doesn’t, if it countermands the earlier law, guess which one stands… that’s right, the later one.

For example, its common belief in England that it’s perfectly legal to kill someone so long as they are welsh, and you do it with a long bow at 100yards in the grounds of Hereford Cathedral on the summer solstice. This WAS a genuine law at one time, and true enough, never repealed. Now what do you think the 1957 Homicide Act might say about it? That’s right, it says that all previous laws relating to the legality of killing someone are repealed. (It’s also believed that it’s still “law” that you can be given the death penalty for “sheep rustling” in the UK as it was never expressly repealed, but that again is no longer true).

I am a firm believer in not shooting the messenger. If you don’t like the law, you complain to the lawmakers not the law enforcers (police) or the law appliers (lawyers). People are forever bashing lawyers for how fucked up their legal system is… but more often than not they did not make it that way, the legislature did. Bash them.

[Deuce 1]

I enjoy how two knuckleheads writing infractions turns into a death penalty discussion .

HEY! Cops get evaluated. Their bosses, sergeants, pull their "stats" to write the evaluations. It's usually a set of columns with subjects like vehicle stops, pedestrian stops, cover calls, infractions written, Cite and releases, warrant arrests, misdemeanor arrests, felony arrests, shootings.

(Just kidding about the shootings)

There is no column for generally assisting the public and being a portal to all government service.

So, while there may not be "quotas" there is a shift "average" of citations. That is the productivity expected by the sergeant of her officers. Damn average raisers like those kids are usually "adjusted" by the salty dogs.

-I'm not responding to you, Sarge.

[sarge 0]

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"adjusted" by the salty dogs.

LMAO!!!!! YUP

.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[Zenister 0]

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Really? You are so completely naive to the internet that because a bunch of bs websites say something, it must be true?

If you really want to see what carries a sentence of death in Alabama, how about you check a governmental source, such as is found here: http://alisdb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ACASLogin.asp

Section 13a-5-40 covers captial offenses. These include

Quote

Capital offenses.
(a) The following are capital offenses:

(1) Murder by the defendant during a kidnapping in the first degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(2) Murder by the defendant during a robbery in the first degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(3) Murder by the defendant during a rape in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant; or murder by the defendant during sodomy in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(4) Murder by the defendant during a burglary in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(5) Murder of any police officer, sheriff, deputy, state trooper, federal law enforcement officer, or any other state or federal peace officer of any kind, or prison or jail guard, while such officer or guard is on duty, regardless of whether the defendant knew or should have known the victim was an officer or guard on duty, or because of some official or job-related act or performance of such officer or guard.

(6) Murder committed while the defendant is under sentence of life imprisonment.

(7) Murder done for a pecuniary or other valuable consideration or pursuant to a contract or for hire.

(8) Murder by the defendant during sexual abuse in the first or second degree or an attempt thereof committed by the defendant.

(9) Murder by the defendant during arson in the first or second degree committed by the defendant; or murder by the defendant by means of explosives or explosion.

(10) Murder wherein two or more persons are murdered by the defendant by one act or pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct.

(11) Murder by the defendant when the victim is a state or federal public official or former public official and the murder stems from or is caused by or is related to his official position, act, or capacity.

(12) Murder by the defendant during the act of unlawfully assuming control of any aircraft by use of threats or force with intent to obtain any valuable consideration for the release of said aircraft or any passenger or crewmen thereon or to direct the route or movement of said aircraft, or otherwise exert control over said aircraft.

(13) Murder by a defendant who has been convicted of any other murder in the 20 years preceding the crime; provided that the murder which constitutes the capital crime shall be murder as defined in subsection (b) of this section; and provided further that the prior murder conviction referred to shall include murder in any degree as defined at the time and place of the prior conviction.

(14) Murder when the victim is subpoenaed, or has been subpoenaed, to testify, or the victim had testified, in any preliminary hearing, grand jury proceeding, criminal trial or criminal proceeding of whatever nature, or civil trial or civil proceeding of whatever nature, in any municipal, state, or federal court, when the murder stems from, is caused by, or is related to the capacity or role of the victim as a witness.

(15) Murder when the victim is less than fourteen years of age.

(16) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon fired or otherwise used from outside a dwelling while the victim is in a dwelling.

(17) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon while the victim is in a vehicle.

(18) Murder committed by or through the use of a deadly weapon fired or otherwise used within or from a vehicle.

(b) Except as specifically provided to the contrary in the last part of subdivision (a)(13) of this section, the terms "murder" and "murder by the defendant" as used in this section to define capital offenses mean murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(1), but not as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(2) and (3). Subject to the provisions of Section 13A-5-41, murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(2) and (3), as well as murder as defined in Section 13A-6-2(a)(1), may be a lesser included offense of the capital offenses defined in subsection (a) of this section.

(c) A defendant who does not personally commit the act of killing which constitutes the murder is not guilty of a capital offense defined in subsection (a) of this section unless that defendant is legally accountable for the murder because of complicity in the murder itself under the provisions of Section 13A-2-23, in addition to being guilty of the other elements of the capital offense as defined in subsection (a) of this section.

(d) To the extent that a crime other than murder is an element of a capital offense defined in subsection (a) of this section, a defendant's guilt of that other crime may also be established under Section 13A-2-23. When the defendant's guilt of that other crime is established under Section 13A-2-23, that crime shall be deemed to have been "committed by the defendant" within the meaning of that phrase as it is used in subsection (a) of this section.

You won't find salting of railroad tracks in that list.

i guess you havent looked to see how many existing obsolete laws exist leave the sentacing up to the judge??

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OK, I was wrong in calling bullshit, You just don't know any better than to trust every bit of text on the internet. (fyi - your opinions now mean absolutely shit to me unless you provide the link to back it up)

again i'm not going to do your work for you, lets just say i have several relatives who work for the DA and the Sherrifs dept in your state.. I dont take the internet at face value at all, but i've had this discussion several times with LEO's and attorney, searching the internet was simply the first text i could find at 2am without calling to wake someone up to educate you because you couldnt be bothered to do it yourself.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[BlindBrick 0]

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Although it was a dick move for them to try to find every little infraction they could....I don't really think they did anything they should be fired for. It's their job.

No they weren't. I used to be one, and a huge part of being a police officer is discretion. Unless they are working under an incredibly broad "Zero Tolerance" law, there is no mandate that police officers have to take to task every infraction. A police officer is more than a person who writes tickets and arrest people. They are literally the guardians of civil order and part of their /duty/ is to use their judgement and discretion to enforce the laws of the land in such a way as not to harm society. Arbitraily enforcing every law as a contest is a miscarriage of that duty. And yes, I know some people have taken the "if you broke the law..." position, but let's be honest. |It's virtually 100% impossible to do anythign without violating some law. Mostly this is because city/state/federal codes have been around for decades if not centuries. Rarely does a law get totally repealed, it usually just gets surplanted by a more modern law. Thus if I had wanted to, I could have wrote tickets to everyone driving a vehcile in my part of Oklahoma for failing to send a runner up to the next intersection and firing off a gun or noisemaker to let people know their car was coming.

Or if you prefer a more recent example of how strict adherence to the letter of the law can be a miscarriage of jsutice, consider this series of tickets by an Olahoma Highway Patrolman. He was hiding at a busy turnpike entrance and when people took off their seatbelt to get their wallets, he'd popout and give them a ticket for no seatbelt. By the letter of the law, these people had been operating motorvehicles without a seatblet, which is a violation of the Oklahoma trafiic code. However, the local DA used his judgement to determine that this was a miscarriage of justice and then used his discretion to drop all the tickets. That's how the system is supposed to work.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[Zenister 0]

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In view of the opinoins expresssed thus far on this particular aspect , "...winner bragging..." I sense it is unanimous that this was inappropriate and un-professional conduct. Deserving of termination...? The enforcement philosophy of the jurisdiction is the determining factor.

Would you fire two salesmen for having a competition for most closings in a month?

Would you fire two doctors for most lives saved in a month?

Would you fire two attorneys for most clients gotten off in a month? -Well maybe yes in this case, but I digress.

was actually discussing this with a JAG officer this afternoon at lunch. Over a period of 45 min we observed in excess of 60 people jaywalk. In only one instance could you really say there was a possible safety issue. Would you have an LEO sitting on that corner all day given tickets for jaywalking?? what if an officer did?

the Major agreed with me, what the two officers in question should be relieved for is "failure to exercise due judgment in the performance of their duties"

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[cvfd1399 0]

I like to see how many people we can pull over in a 12 hour shift. Every stop is based off of multiple traffic violations. If you forget to use a blinker who cares, but no tail lights, expired tags and speeding is a ticket. There is no way to really find out what really happened. They might have pulled over a politicians daughter, and gave her a ticket. That happened here. Officer stops kids from riding go cart in the street, come to find out kids father is a wealthy connected man. Reserve officer was forced to quit, b/c the kids said he cursed them out. The man was a very religious person, noone has ever heard him utter a curse word. The office wouldn't even listen to his side of the story, they just took the side of money.