skydive sebastian has pissed me off!

[freefalle 0]

I dint usually speak poorly of anyone or any DZ but today I am mad. My cousin started AFF at sebastian, for personal reasons he had to stop for a while. He when he left he was told by the DZ that he had 400.00 on his account. A few months ago he decided he would come to Deland and finish his AFF, he called sebastian because he was going to pick up his cash on the way to Deland. They told him he only had 180.00 dollars on his account ( I was present when he mad this phone call). BUT couldn't explain why there was a difference in what he was previously told...something about a new computer system and that the old records we not available. He didn't get to stop by on his way up because the DZ was already closed when he drove through town. Today, we we at Titusville. He said "hey I think Ill stop by Sebastian and pick up my cash on my way back home" He call the DZ to make sure they were going to have the cash and that there was no problem with him comming to get it. He was informed "you don't have any money left on your account" The note in the computer shows you picked it up. I know for a fact that he never picked his money up. SO can someone explain to me how he went from 400.00 to 180.00 to NO dollars without ever steping foot on the DZ??? Yes I think he was a dumb ass for not taking his cash off the DZ when he left, but his being unable to return to finish AFF was something beyond his control and he did not know he would not be back there for a while. I like Sebastian, I'll go back and jump there again BUT I'll damn sure not leave .02 on my account. Somebody seems to be doing something there, and its pissed me off.

[slug 1]

Speaking in general terms not about sebastion.

Some people cash out at the end of the everyday. The DZ's not a bank. At one DZ I paid the DZO with cash at the end of the day, then got a call because I forgot to pay befor I left. Lesson learned pay be check.

In any business some employee's need a little extra cash flow and use poor judgemeent. My Dr recently found that out the hard way.

R.I.P.

[skybytch 259]

Who did he talk to?

Does he have proof of how much money he gave them (ie cancelled check or credit card receipt) and how many jumps he'd done there? Does he know how much those jumps should have cost?

Is it possible that he forgot that he'd already picked it up? (I've done that...) Is it possible that the person who told him he had $400 left on account was wrong?

[freefalle 0]

Lisa Im not really sure who he talked to today I'd have to ask him I know he said her name. I know he didn't pick it up because he lives out of town and hasn't been back with the exceptions of today and a few months ago. He put cash on the account so he doesn't have a reciept. your right the DZ is not a bank and chuckle head sould have taken his money with him but the fact is he didn't. The DZ should be able to pull up the records of his payment and exactly how much he was charged. Either way who took the cash off of his account? somethings not right about all that.

[skybytch 259]

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somethings not right about all that.

On the face of it, I agree with you. But knowing the people there as I do, I can't imagine that any of them would intentionally steal his money.

[freefalle 0]

Then Good customer service and proper ettiquette would require them going out of their way to find the missing money. Im not saying anyone STOLE his money, lisa PLEASE understand that, I AM however saying his money is missing and he was basically told "sorry there is nothing we can do about it" If a vendor lost money that was given to them by Skydive Sebastian, skydive Sebastian would damn sure want something done about it.

[Jimbo 0]

It's problems like yours that have led more than one DZ to move to a ticketing system. You pay your money, you get your tickets. At that point, the transaction is over. It saves a LOT of problems for the DZ staff and their customers, I think.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've been pushing my DZ to go to a computerized tracking and manifest system but after seeing this... I'm done on my suggestions to the DZ. Tickets work and if you lose them... its not the DZ's fault.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[skybytch 259]

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Then Good customer service and proper ettiquette would require them going out of their way to find the missing money.

If he talked to one of the people at manifest, they may not have access to the records needed to determine what happened - and the person/persons who do have access to those records may not have been there.

Was he polite on the phone or did he yell at them? Did he request a call back from dz management after being told he had nothing on account?

I know you aren't saying they stole from him. I'm saying that there's got to be more to this than you, him and now all of us know about.

[Jimbo 0]

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Tickets work and if you lose them... its not the DZ's fault.

Exactly.

Managing the tickets is a bit of an added hassle for the jumper, but in the end I think it's a win for all involved.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[harryskydives 0]

I agree with slug. IF you are paying cash get a receipt. I paid cash one sunday at a DZ that i only jump at occasionally. Imagine my surprise the next time i visited and was told I had a large balance. I explained & was believed, but now I pay by check. Always get a receipt with any cash tranactions and balance your account, not just Drop zones. If it is applied to the wrong account, how would you correct that months later?

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[Hondo 0]

I, personally have never seen or heard of a dz trying to screw people out of money! I went to Sebastian in february and had nothing but an awesome experience! Please be careful before you accuse.

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I used to think skydiving would be cheaper then smoking crack!

[aneblett 0]

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I, personally have never seen or heard of a dz trying to screw people out of money!

Just because you have never seen or heard of it doesn't mean that it can't happen.

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Please be careful before you accuse

If it had happened to you as it is alleged, I am sure you would be asking some questions too..

But it is as you have implied a big misunderstanding.

Age

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[Hondo 0]

not an argument here. people can be taken advantage of anywhere. i pose the question: why would any dz ever screw people?

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I used to think skydiving would be cheaper then smoking crack!

[carbonezone 0]

WOW...I am surprised they (sebastian) would even offer the money back. Most DZ's do not offer money back once it is in the books especially for AFF "Package Deal". If they DO give it back an adjustment is made to disregard the package jump prices and they are charged full price for student jumps made.
I can hardly believe it was done intentionally!
Not arguing just commenting <>
Tami

[Hondo 0]

I agree. You pay for what you ask for!

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I used to think skydiving would be cheaper then smoking crack!

[bobsled92 0]

I would expect credit for jumps on an account, rather than cash back. Like a "return policy" thing.
I think the concern would be that $400 went to $180. (that in itself shows that his money IS there) Then no money left...."It was picked up"...(By who???)
That's a worry.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[carbonezone 0]

[JohnRich 4]

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I've been pushing my DZ to go to a computerized tracking and manifest system but after seeing this... I'm done on my suggestions to the DZ. Tickets work and if you lose them... its not the DZ's fault.

I have seen a case where a computer went down, with no backups available, and all records of how much money everyone had on account was lost. Some had thousands in credit. Some reconstruction can be done, but it's not easy.

If you have to use a system like this, I recommend you cash out at the end of every weekend. If you don't do that, at least get a printed statement indicating how much is in your account.

Mistakes happen. Don't let mistakes happen with your money.

I prefer tickets. As others have said, once the DZ sells you the tickets, it's your responsibility to safeguard them, just like cash. And they're handy for load organizing - you just go ask everyone for a ticket, and turn those in to manifest, which provides the list of names for the load. Simple. Easy.

Except that with computers and scanners, some unscrupulous people can attempt to forge tickets. So serial numbers are necessary, and some reconciliation work.

My #1 choice is the "old way"; when drop zones trusted you to jump all day, and just pay up before you departed at the end of the day. But heck, I don't think anyone does that anymore...

I once paid up like this at the end of the day, giving them the amount of cash they said was due. But then on the long drive home, I was adding it up in my head, and realized they had undercharged me by one jump. So I called them first thing Monday morning and told them about it. But it turns out, they had given me a free jump, as an unwritten "nice guy" policy. They just did that every once in a while for regular visitors.

If only everyone was as nice and trusting as them, and as honest as me.

[JohnRich 4]

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I, personally have never seen or heard of a dz trying to screw people out of money!

I agree. However honest mistakes happen.

At my DZ, they search the name database to maifest you on a load, and there is another guy whose name is similar to mine. They both start with "John R", and the last names both have four letters. If they're in a hurry, and click on the wrong name, they end up charging the wrong account for the dive. And they are so close together in that tiny little pop-up window on the computer, that it's easy to click on the wrong one.

Another example is a guy I know that has entries for both his real name, and a dropzone nickname. If someone new is running manifest that isn't familiar with the nickname, they may treat those as separate people, instead of one and the same. The jumper could switch names when he manifests, accessing different accounts, and end up paying for less than what he should have, while the DZ is scratching their head trying to figure out who the "nickname" guy was.

Beware.

I stick my head in the window far enough to look at the computer screen and make sure they get my name correctly on the load.

[okalb 79]

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I've been pushing my DZ to go to a computerized tracking and manifest system but after seeing this... I'm done on my suggestions to the DZ. Tickets work and if you lose them... its not the DZ's fault.

At z-hills we have the best of both worlds. We sell tickets. The tickets are printed on a receipt printer and all have barcodes on them. That way if manifests systems crash, you still have your tickets, but if you wash your tickets in your jumpsuit (not that I have ever done that) they can be reprinted by manifest.

It also makes it much easier at minfest since they just scan the tickets with a barcode scanner to put you on a load.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[freeflir29 0]

Ya know....Sebastian has pissed me off too. I can't believe they put the damn place so far away. I mean......just cause it's March and it's FREAKIN SNOWING here! Have I mentioned how much I hate Cleveland, OH?

[Jimbo 0]

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My #1 choice is the "old way"; when drop zones trusted you to jump all day, and just pay up before you departed at the end of the day. But heck, I don't think anyone does that anymore...

I know of at least one DZ that does (or did) things this way, it's nice. However I don't think it that this solution is even remotely practical for any of the larger DZs. Tickets aren't so bad, at least not once you get used to them.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Quote

My #1 choice is the "old way"; when drop zones trusted you to jump all day, and just pay up before you departed at the end of the day. But heck, I don't think anyone does that anymore...

I know of at least one DZ that does (or did) things this way, it's nice. However I don't think it that this solution is even remotely practical for any of the larger DZs. Tickets aren't so bad, at least not once you get used to them.

i know one that does...you get an account number, put it on the manifest sheet and pay up at the end of the day....or even the end of the weekend...

of course its not the largest dropzone in the world, but it can get pretty busy when the weather rocks..

i prefer tickets to the account system like Perris has, for the exact LO reason you mentioned...its sometime a pain to get everyones last name/number to get everybody on the load..i know of a few occasions where by the time the dive organizer found every one to add to manifest the load had already filled the remaing slots..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[bendywendy 0]

Well, I just came in today after being off for the weekend and had a message to call a Kevin about his account. I have not yet spoken to him as I'm still returning phone calls and working to catch up for taking off a weekend.

The girl who took the message is new and doesn't know very much about the system or skydiving for that matter.

I briefly pulled up the account to see what it was about so that I would have some idea when I return the call. The note in the account says to speak to Vic (the previous manager) before refunding anything. I don't know what that is about. It also says that there is 181.00 that was on the account. The account says 0 just so that it would move to inactive file since he hadn't been here since 2001.

I don't know anything about $400.00. I don't like you insinuating that anyone would purposfully take money off your account. If that was the way the dropzone did business - we wouldn't be in business. Because of incidents like your cousins we try not ever take more than a jump or two ahead for AFF people because they change their mind or get hurt and then come back on a day we aren't busy and say I want my money back.

A few years ago they used to do package deals but they were non-refundable for any reason including injury. That was the only thing I could think of for why there would be a note saying to ask before doing a refund.

I will call to speak to your cousin.