airtwardo 6 #1 March 12, 2004 I recived this from a SEAL friend... Interesting read! -Twardo ********************************************** Subject: something is not right with this combat record > > > >I've long thought that John Kerry's war record was phoney. We talked about >it when you were here. It's mainly been instinct because, as you know, >nobody who claims to have seen the action he does would so shamelessly >flaunt it for political gain. > >I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the >operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine >used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I >spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command. > >Here are my problems and suspicions: > >(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, >a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any >outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the >River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such >pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't >the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the >major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was >mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs. Fishy. > >(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp.. All injuries so minor that no time >lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every >time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was >almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not >often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to >request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour.. Fishy. > >(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no >sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 (rocket propelled grenade) was fired at the >boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow >gunner knocks him down with the twin .50 (caliber machine guns), Kerry >beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If >true, he did everything wrong. (a) Standard procedure when you took rocket >fire was to put your stern to the action and go (away) balls to the wall. A >B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you >put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your >.50's. (b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber >round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. >There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to >you - just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, >and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't >shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too. (c) Kerry got off the >boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew >ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had >somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it >couldn't return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should >have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever >leaving a boat during or after a firefight. > >Something is very fishy. > >Here we have a JFK wannabe who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get a >good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of >medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests >separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for >Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so >reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the >cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to >invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the >heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes >against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall >(Berlin) came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that >turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for >invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he >really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to >war. > >I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I >sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 >shows up with some documented facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. > >I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy. > >This e-mail was written by Mike Morrison, who won a bronze star in Vietnam >and who is now retired, but wrote speeches for Lee Iacocca for many years. A. L. "Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL SEAL Authentication Team -Director AuthentiSEAL Phone 707 438 XXXX "The only service where all investigators are US Navy SEALs" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,147 #2 March 12, 2004 QuoteI recived this from a SEAL friend... And he probably received from a friend, who received it from a friend, who received it from a friend. Here's what Snopes has to say about it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #3 March 12, 2004 Point Taken... Good link! I sent it back to my friend. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #4 March 12, 2004 I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. I will not forward chain emails, they're probably false. ... __ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #5 March 12, 2004 This was my recommendation a month ago. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=926275#926275... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #6 March 12, 2004 Great link! I didn't read the whole story IMO it reads like Consumer reports or readers digest. Since I was a REMF I don't feel qualified to analyse Mr Kerry's tacticle situation. However young officers full of piss and vinegar with little experience have a reputation for allowing their gung ho attitude to get them & their men (the ones that follow) in trouble. Officers and Medals? no comment. Bottom line both GWB & Kerry are politicans. IMO their war records don't enter into the equation. Our country is facing some serious problems and we need some good leaders to get us out of this mess. Republican, Democrate, I don't care about the label we need to elect a good leader. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #7 March 12, 2004 Didn't realize it was a chain disinformation propaganda letter... The friend that sent it is a 20 year ret. SEAL that just told be via landline... he didn't either. Sorry guys... go back to the 'how to get laid' thread ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #8 March 12, 2004 A group of infantry who'd been out in the boonies for a couple of weeks came upon a ville, where they managed to stock up on such things as fresh eggs and marijuana. After a hearty breakfast, they got silly and started a food fight. It got a little out of hand, and one guy was treated by the medic after being hit with an egg with his eyes open. A couple of weeks later, back at base, he received a Purple Heart on the basis of the medic's writeup. The treatment for "shell fragment in eye" was apparently enough to generate the medal. What the hell, the chicken WAS Vietnamese, and who knows what were its political leanings? Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #9 March 12, 2004 IVAN! mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
panzwami 0 #10 March 12, 2004 Yeah, that one's been making the rounds for a while. This one, though, is real (I checked Snopes). It's written by former U.S. Senator and Vietnam POW RADM Jeramiah Denton, USN (ret.) Matt ----- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #11 March 13, 2004 I have had the opportunity to listen to and meet mr. Denton at a SERE graduation and am very familiar with his story. I used his experience and film footage as an example in the resistance to interrogation class I used to teach. The man is extremely smart and can to this day still tap out messages in the POW tap code faster than anyone I have met. I recommend that everyone read his book "When hell was in session" to get an idea of what he and many others went through and their resolve in standing up for what they believed in, the USA."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #12 March 13, 2004 I'm sure he went thru hell, but he lost me here: QuoteTop priority should be placed on an effort to recover our most fundamental founding belief that our national objectives, policies and laws should reflect obedience to the will of Almighty God. No thanks. Any politician that feels the need to force religion upon the population never gets my vote. If Kerry start saying junk like this, I just wouldn't vote in the election. The ignorance of this statement upsets me. Christianity is not the only faith in this country. We are at our current level state of emergency in this country because of religion. And people were upset that JFK was going to force his religion down the throat of the American populace and let the Pope run the country. geez We need fresh new blood on the Hill, and it needs to be secular, open-minded, and educated._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #13 March 13, 2004 QuoteWe need fresh new blood on the Hill, and it needs to be secular, open-minded, and educated. Does it have to be secular? Would you not be OK with an agnostic? -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #14 March 13, 2004 QuoteI'm sure he went thru hell, but he lost me here: QuoteTop priority should be placed on an effort to recover our most fundamental founding belief that our national objectives, policies and laws should reflect obedience to the will of Almighty God. No thanks. Any politician that feels the need to force religion upon the population never gets my vote. If Kerry start saying junk like this, I just wouldn't vote in the election. The ignorance of this statement upsets me. Christianity is not the only faith in this country. We are at our current level state of emergency in this country because of religion. And people were upset that JFK was going to force his religion down the throat of the American populace and let the Pope run the country. geez We need fresh new blood on the Hill, and it needs to be secular, open-minded, and educated. The phrase "Almighty God" does not infer Christianity any more than Judaism or Islam. While Christian-based religion is not the only religion in this country, 85% of it is.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 March 13, 2004 QuoteWe need fresh new blood on the Hill, and it needs to be secular, open-minded, and educated That in and of its self is a religious stance and thus by your own argument, proves your political stance to be a fallacy.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #16 March 13, 2004 I think you may be missing his point. Then again, maybe you don't feel as a nation, we need some moral and ethical guidelines to help society evolve. I think Mr. Denton made his point here: For some 50 years, our nation's opinion-makers, our courts and, gradually, our politicians have been abandoning our historical effort to be "one nation under God" in favor of becoming "one nation without God," with glaringly unfavorable results. I blame PC as being one of the glaring faults for the decay in society among other things. Removing the concept of God( any God) from the way we govern ourselves as a society is a mistake. As you stated, religion is a major issue in many of the conflicts that have ravaged this planet over time. That in itself should indicate how important it is to the various people on this planet. Every religion holds it's followers accountable for their actions while on this planet. That in itself is a great motivator, however, the PC concept where it's always some one elses fault, no responsibility for ones actions has led to a guiltless,sociopath mentality in our society that continues to get worse. I believe in a seperatiion of church and state but I do not believe church(God) needs to removed from the way we live in our society. I think Mr. Denton recognizes that and that is what he is saying in his letter."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #17 March 13, 2004 Quote As you stated, religion is a major issue in many of the conflicts that have ravaged this planet over time. That's why I think organized religion is a horrible idea. Let's face it, 95% percent of the world believes in God, in some form or another, including myself. However, because of stupid little differences like Jesus, Buddha, or Allah, innocent people are killed every day. Worse yet are the people who justify their own hostile actions by saying that it was God's will, like the attacks on September 11. Personally, I believe in God. I love and appreciate the world, the people, and the life that this entity has given me. But I would never harm another person in the name of God, because they don't believe in God, do believe in some other form of God, or have some guy claiming to be the Messiah to believe in. That would be wrongful persecution, and utter NONSENSE. The fact that nearly every war and conflict (nearly not all) in human history has been based on some kind of religious view is exactly what makes me frown upon organized religion, and is why I choose to show thanks to God in my own way, and not follow one other people have come up with. I'm not saying I'm right or that everyone on the planet is wrong, because opinion is not fact. But you can't help but agree that if people only believed in God and forgot all the other nonsense and differences we have, there may not be world peace, but at least when theres war and death, there might be a little better explanation for it than "It's God's will". This is just my opinion, I'm not judging anyone in this thread, so please do not flame me. Oh, and I'm sorry, but Bush pulling this "I know it's wrong" crap about gay marriage, I think he should be thrown out of office just for violating people's Civil rights. This is America, get a clue, Georgey. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #18 March 13, 2004 Quote Every religion holds it's followers accountable for their actions while on this planet. That in itself is a great motivator, Not very effectively. Religion has inspired and continues to inspire some of the worst atrocities the planet has seen, performed in the name of "God".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #19 March 13, 2004 Quote For some 50 years, our nation's opinion-makers, our courts and, gradually, our politicians have been abandoning our historical effort to be "one nation under God" in favor of becoming "one nation without God," with glaringly unfavorable results. Which God should that be? And who gets to decide? Is there one God in this country that represents her entire people? While several religions share similar moral guidelines and their gods seem to look alike...there are plenty of religions in this country that do not follow the christian/catholic structure of beliefs. Technically Atheism is a faith - it is a belief structure - they do not believe in a god - and forcing a god upon them would be a violation of their rights. Wouldn't One Nation under All Gods (Would you want One Nation under Allah?) be more along the guidelines of what this Nation was founded on: Freedom from religious persecution? We are a melting pot of many races - and religions. Our government should recognize it and represent that. When this country first started we were not as diversified as we are now - the "PC" movement was one of inclusion that went too far, but it is based on the good intentions of equality for all people. I grew up listening to my grandparents from Ireland talking about the end of society and civilation EVERYTIME something new came up that challenged their beliefs. The fact that my sister was wearing makeup and calling her "guy friends" was to them a signal of the end of the civilized world (no, that is not exaggerated). My mom carried on the same tradition...to the point where she believes that a Catholic marrying someone from another religion will go to hell (yes, I have explained to her how the church doesn't feel this way). Sorry, I've heard someone cry wolf too many times about the end of our culture but yet we are still here. I don't think forcing god upon the populace is the band-aid that will resolve the problems we have in this country. In fact, it seems to be the baseline for some of the most passionate arguments and even violent demonstrations (blowing up abortion patients/doctors/clinics). QuoteThe phrase "Almighty God" does not infer Christianity any more than Judaism or Islam.*** Yes, technically you could say the God of the Muslim world. But that is not common in the vernacular of that religion. *** While Christian-based religion is not the only religion in this country, 85% of it is. So we should just ignore the minority, once again? We seem to have a history of that in this country._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #20 March 13, 2004 I agree with your position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #21 March 13, 2004 I wonder why someone would focus on 9 words out of Denton's statement and ignore the main point of what he was saying. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #22 March 13, 2004 Quote[Quote While Christian-based religion is not the only religion in this country, 85% of it is. So we should just ignore the minority, once again? We seem to have a history of that in this country. I agree with CBS. Besides, out of that 85%, how many actually act like Christians, go to church, follow all the commandments, save sex for marriage (yeah f*ckin right), dont drink or do drugs, wear long skirts and sweaters when its in the 80's outside, and pray at dinner time even in retaurants? Just think, I was baptized a Catholic when I was a baby, so I'm probably included in that 85%, but didn't I just completely deny any affiliation with any church?? Ya think I'm the only one?? Some food for thought..... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #23 March 13, 2004 Don't forget to eat fish on Fridays! R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #24 March 13, 2004 QuoteYeah, that one's been making the rounds for a while. This one, though, is real (I checked Snopes). It's written by former U.S. Senator and Vietnam POW RADM Jeramiah Denton, USN (ret.) Matt ----- Didn't see a thing in it about Kerry's combat record, just a political diatribe against the Democratic Party, who won the Cold War**, and the Godlessness of America. ** the correct answer is "Margaret Thatcher", who gave Reagan his instructions and told GHWBush, who was indecisive about Gulf War I, "Remember George, this is no time to go wobbly".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #25 March 13, 2004 Quote... GHWBush, who was indecisive about Gulf War I, So how was GHWBush indecisive exactly?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
