Matrix Revolutions (the third film) -- Help me understand a piece of the ending.

[quade 3]

So, I finally got off my ass and down to Irvine, California to see the IMAX version of the Matrix Revolutions.

Rather than show the movie cropped for a square IMAX screen, it was a letterboxed IMAX version. This isi the first time I think I've ever seen them release an IMAX version of a wide screen movie before in letterboxed IMAX and it's a far superior experience than having the sides cut off. That's how they showed; Fantasia 2000, Star Wars Espisode 2 and Atlantis. All -sucked- because they cut off stuff and they tried to do a pan&scan.

So, you don't get a 5 story tall picutre, but what you DO get is pretty freekn' awesome. Crystal clear and still really freekin' big. So, big I was sitting in the middle of the theater and the picture still was too large for my glasses to cover.

Anyway, the point of this thread is . . . I need a little bit o' clarification on what people thought happened at the end of the final fight between Neo and Smith.

Anybody wanna take a stab at it?

I have my own ideas, but I wanna hear yours.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LouDiamond 1]

My short version explanation is Balance, Ying and Yang if that makes any sense to you. Neo's reply to Smith on why he kept fighting is what clicked the light on in his mind a few moments later and why he let what happened, happen.

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[billvon 2,478]

>I need a little bit o' clarification on what people thought happened at
>the end of the final fight between Neo and Smith.

Neo went to the "source" in person and offered to stop Smith. He jacked in via a source interface and fought Smith. Neither Smith nor Neo could win by fighting each other in the Matrix.

Then Neo heard Smith speak a prophesy and become confused. Neo realized that assimilating the Oracle had affected Smith, and realized that he could affect Smith as well if he was assimilated. Recall that that's essentially how he defeated Smith the first time - he "dove into" Smith, existed within him for a time, then destroyed him from the inside.

He allowed himself to become assimilated. He then performed the same trick he pulled off last time. He may well have been assisted by the source; since he was in direct contact with the source, the source presumably had the same access to Smith that Neo did once he was assimilated.

An alternative view here is that once Smith had taken over Neo, the core used its resources to destroy Neo which had the effect of destroying Smith, since he had assimilated Neo's code. This is less likely since the Architect suggested that the matrix would be destroyed unless the code Neo carried was reinserted into the source. The last scene of him being carried into the source suggested that his code was being (symbolically) carried back into the source.

[CrazyIvan 0]

That's easy.

Neo went back to the center of the Matrix and destroy it, that way, he can freely access al the ATM machines, get the cash and refund ALL OF US for such a crappy movie.

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[quade 3]

Bill -- your's are the closest that I could figure out, but each has their own special little problems.

Certainly Smith remembers the last time so the whole "allows himself to become assimilated thing seems kinda silly, since Smith -should- be prepared for that type of thing.

I like the idea of Neo allowing himself to be a conduit for the Core's energy to destroy Smith, because that's the only thing that makes sense from the stand point of Neo's quest to return to the source, but then you'd think that when the Core asks him how it's going to go down, that this part would have been discussed. Instead, Neo says he won't fail -- not -we- won't fail, but -he- won't -- yet clearly he does.

I didn't mind the ending, but thought it needed to be a bit more clear as to what actually happened. Stories are supposed to make complete sense, they're far more popular (and profitable) that way.

99 percent of the visuals in this film were spectacular, I only wish they'd paid as much attention to the final moments of the story and pulled the entire trilogy together.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Fast 0]

Following what has already been said,

My understanding of it was based on yin yang, balance, neutralization, etc. Neo's and Smith's power both grew equally, because they were opposites. You have to think of it in terms of how it was explained at the end of the second movie. They balance an equation.

Smith personified Death, Neo Personified Life. When smith tried to assimilate Neo, they bassicaly both became zero, like a neutralization of two chemical agents, and then there is nothing, and smith can no longer take over the matrix because his code was neutralized.

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[DJatLarge 0]

I'll go with Bill's answer. That is what I got out of it.

Kinda like giving McAfee a copy of a computer virus so they can eliminate it. Since Neo was plugged into the source, when Smith basically planted his image onto Neo (like a computer virus,) then the source had the virus code, and couple eliminate it from the Matrix itself.

Or are the good drugs kicking in and I'm completely off base.

[jtval 0]

I see it as bill does. but picture this...in effect NEO(the one) was antoher type of control and SMITH was the one fighting to get out of the matrix.

SMITH: Im not here b/c we are free. Im here bc we are not free. etc.

Neo and the Ying to Smiths YANG the are there to equal each others eqations; there fore making the ever growing unbalance(zion) and equal eqaution again. zeroing it out(killing zion)

Neo went to save Zion and PLUGGED into the matrix hardline he then allowed Smith to assimlulate him. then the equation could be "reinserted" (or summed up)
the architech reinserted th eqation with his "we are becoming increasingly sufficient at it" routine. then the oracle asked what would come of those whjo wanted out....
he said they would be released etc blah blah blah.
B.S.... its the RELOAD of the matrix.

she is undoubtedly the mother of the matrix as he is the father...so the matrix is still running just with a new equation.

Smith was the one trying to get free!

how twisted is that to the story line

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[VivaHeadDown 0]

The way I see it, what started out as a great story (the matrix), became muddled and then crammed together (reloaded), and then turned into a bunch of action that had to be wrapped up with an open-to-interpretation scene (revolutions). And if that wasn't enough, the scene with the oracle and the architect at the end was lame. The present is safe (though completely unceartain how anyone, man or machine, will survive without the other's support), but maybe not the future. I liked Rev. enough, thanks to the battle at the dock. That made the movie. I just wished they would have put that much thought into the story. They made you think in the beginning, but by episode 3, err, revolutions, it was a totally different, and not as spectacular, experience.

[marcandalysse 0]

I'm with you all the way on this one!

Nobody should think too deeply about what happened, cause the plot was all over the place anyway...it could have ended a thousand different ways....

Agent Smith was such a favorite part of the original film....I think that's why he took over the plot (as well as overrun the matrix)....sheesh.....I thought the idea was to free humanity from the machines, not SPOILER AHEAD! declare truce....so that would be the first battle only....Neo will be back??

marc

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

....Neo will be back??

Sure when they make "The Matrix - Devolutions" and we all get our refunds.

Or perhaps "The Matrix - Refunded"

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Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Deuce 1]

Betsy looks a lot like Trinity.

And Betsy can skydive!

[marcandalysse 0]

another good zinger!

I went to the early bird cheaper matinee, and saw 2 flicks that day, so I can't really complain about tix prices....

By the way, any one seen 'lost in translation' ??? following the camera through nite time Tokyo is a real life stepping into the matrix....is it really on this planet??

[quade 3]

That is -exactly- what it looks like to be in Tokyo at night (because it was shot on location there) and that's essentially what it "feels" like to be in Tokyo -- semi-drunk and boozey where things are sort of familiar yet totally incomprehensible.

I thought it was a GREAT movie and now that you've seen it . . . what do you think he whispered in her ear at the end of the movie. I think there's ONLY one thing he could have said that would have made any sense at all -- like not playing a note of jazz -- but what do you think?

PM me your answer.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billo 0]

Fast -

I think you are paralleling my thoughts here...

Quote

My understanding of it was based on yin yang, balance, neutralization, etc...They balance an equation.

Right. And remember when Neo was talking to the Oracle earlier in the 3rd movie? She told him about the equation, and said that she was there to make sure something happened when they zeroed it out. Think of it like an equation...
If Neo = x and Smith = y, and if they equal out and x=y then 0=0 and equation wipes itself out. But, if Oracle = z and is on the side of Neo, then x+z=y would be an equation weighted in Neo's favor.

But at least that's what I got out of it! I'm sure everyone has their own demented twist on it all... :)

b

[MC208B 0]

Ivan, I sense that you were unhappy with the movie? At least it was a little better than "reloaded"

[jtval 0]

but the orcale was the the "X" to the arichtechs "Y"

two different equations!

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[LouDiamond 1]

I was watching revolutions tonight and having seen the 3rd one, I can now see a ton of forshadowing in rev that I missed before. I also believe the bench convo with the oracle and smiths first attempt to assimilate Neo was a big time clue to what unfolded in 3. I am convinced the only way to really understand the whole picture is to watch all 3 in a row and then I think people won't think 2 and 3 were let downs. It actually turns out to be a pretty good trilogy IMO. The other thing I have been kicking around is the significance of the term the "ONE" ie" binary code, 1s and 0s. There has to be a meaning there as I don't think it's just coincidence.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[jtval 0]

I agree with you . I liked the trio- but I can see how ppl were upset in the end.


1's and zero's in my mind kinda realy to My philosophy on life...I wound get too deep here but I get say that with out the the "ONE" being whole(aka 1) the program woulda failed.

Smith: maybe some part of you imprinted onto me.
with that logic being low (now whole aka 1 therefore being low aka zero) they couldnt get into the matrix again to resolve the equation.

when the oracle give part of herself to SMITH she was able to make the WHOLE of the eqaution. (getting smith and NEO to be ONE again) and putting the pieces of the puzzle in their places.

youll notice she was left in the puddle....SHE was actually the one controlling SMith ..well THAT smith anyway. they all agreed he was the one to kill neo b/c with the oracles info and the SMITHS want for purpose. he had it.(purpose that is)
but she was lying dormant until she needed to fulfil her purpose(she made the choice, she just had to understand why?)
hence when SMITH said...."eerything that has a beggining has an end.'(that was HEr advice to Neo in one of the movies.)
neo then knew that he had to be assimulted so the matrix can solve the equation.


and back to paradise it is for the human minds

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[billvon 2,478]

>Certainly Smith remembers the last time so the whole "allows himself to
>become assimilated thing seems kinda silly, since Smith -should- be
> prepared for that type of thing.

What type of thing? We are led to believe that his new trick (assimilation) has worked thousands if not millions of times with no problems, other than its failure to work on Neo (but which led to no harm to Smith.) Apparently he was even able to assimilate the oracle, someone who was difficult for any other program to even get near. He was risking only one copy of himself (or so he thought) and he said in TM2 that he wanted part of Neo's code for himself. It seems to make sense that he would try to assimilate Neo after he had 'defeated' him.

>but then you'd think that when the Core asks him how it's going to go
>down, that this part would have been discussed.

It's possible Neo himself did not know how he would defeat Smith until he heard traces of the Oracle in Smith.

>Instead, Neo says he won't fail -- not -we- won't fail, but -he- won't --
>yet clearly he does.

Well, he does fulfill his own objective (save Zion) the machine god's objective (stop Smith) and the Architect's objective (to return to the Source and disseminate Neo's code to restart the Matrix.) Note how the city is repaired magically after Smith is gone.

And why do you think he's failed? He may not even be dead. The oracle says "you'll see him again" at the end of the movie.

[billvon 2,478]

>Smith personified Death, Neo Personified Life. When smith tried to
>assimilate Neo, they bassicaly both became zero . . .

Works except that they didn't neutralize themselves the first time they merged, in Matrix 1. Perhaps they weren't truly opposites at that point?

Some other open questions -

Was the merovingian a previous One, whose code stuck around after he returned to the source?

Human brains can clearly "run" matrix programs i.e. the Smith program ran in Bane. Was Neo partly machine, running Matrix-supplied code in his brain? Would help to explain how he controlled (and passed through) the sentinels.

[billvon 2,478]

>The other thing I have been kicking around is the significance of the term
> the "ONE" ie" binary code, 1s and 0s. There has to be a meaning there
>as I don't think it's just coincidence.

Some other plays on words:

The first machine city was named 01 (see The Animatrix for the story on that.) Zion is pretty close to "zeroone."

Neo is, of course, an anagram of One.

MOBIL (the sign in the train station) is a play on limbo.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

>The other thing I have been kicking around is the significance of the term
> the "ONE" ie" binary code, 1s and 0s. There has to be a meaning there
>as I don't think it's just coincidence.

Some other plays on words:

The first machine city was named 01 (see The Animatrix for the story on that.) Zion is pretty close to "zeroone."

Neo is, of course, an anagram of One.

MOBIL (the sign in the train station) is a play on limbo.

The Machine that Neo talks to at the end is called "Deus Ex Machina" according to the credits ....for those that didn't pay attention in humanities:

In Greek and Roman drama, a god lowered by stage machinery to resolve a plot or extricate the protagonist from a difficult situation.

An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot.


A person or event that provides a sudden and unexpected solution to a difficulty.

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[metalslug 31]

Quote

Human brains can clearly "run" matrix programs i.e. the Smith program ran in Bane. Was Neo partly machine, running Matrix-supplied code in his brain? Would help to explain how he controlled (and passed through) the sentinels.

I see Neo's ability to control the sentinals this way:
The entire machine world is programmed to recognise Neo as as anomale, an exception, that allows him to excercise a measure of control over the machine world, both the matrix and the physical robotics outside of it... much like a military missile with a self-destruct mechanism that can be triggered by a person in control if the missile is perceived as a threat to it's creator.

This also leads me to believe that the "..code that Neo carries, that needs to be returned to the source,.." is perhaps a unique identifier of some kind, a binary signature that the machine world is programmed to recognise and obey to a varying degree.

[jtval 0]

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Some other open questions -

Was the merovingian a previous One, whose code stuck around after he returned to the source?

I dont think so...he was just the traffiker of information.. like a bus line.
so he knew all the info that came in and out of the matrices.
in Matrix2 you see all the previous "ones" in the computer screens they were all NEO.
but maybe those werent previous ones but more of the different outcomes of his every decision(choice of words/dialog)

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