just a mini soap box rant.

[Dougiefresh 0]

What does the DZO say about all this? Is grounding appropriate?

If this guy won't listen to reason, maybe he'll listen to discipline.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[BASE813 0]

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If this guy won't listen to reason, maybe he'll listen to discipline.

does not work......... it was only when i was threatened with life ban did I suddenly realise the severity of it all.............

its a tuff call and you cant put experienced head on a young dumb and full of cum body........... he just needs to fucking stop it all before he DIES

[TheAnvil 0]

I'm not sure dude. Dunno the guy myself. I'm still a low # jumper with only 500 and some change (527 I think) jumps under my belt. But I do know that doing an intentional cutaway like that is goat-fuck-stupid - especially for someone with so few jumps.

I think some discipline might be warranted, but am unsure as to the degree. Maybe some more experienced folks have some opinions on that...I think everyone here should encourage this fellow to take a time-out, re-evaluate his look on the sport from a safety standpoint, and definitely think about developing the ability to take criticism in a constructive manner.

I shudder to think at how unskilled I was at only 100'ish jumps...and it wasn't that long ago.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[skybozo 0]

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The problem is that it potentially isn't just him he affects. The potential to injure others certainly exists.

And how about the reputation of the dropzone? I can't imagine any dropzone wants to be known as a place where loose and dangerous shit happens. The rep gets even worse if someone gets hurt or goes in.

And how about the reputation of skydiving in general? It attracts more people to the sport if it can be shown to be performed safely, and more participants helps to support the various skydiving businesses, especially dropzones. It's also a lot easier to get approval for the wild and crazy shit we'd like to do if we can show that we do it in a safe and survivable manner.

Not to mention the possibility of "help" from the FAA if they decide that skydiving is getting unsafe. The skydiving community has worked very hard for a lot of years to keep skydiving a self-policing activity. Which, in turn, makes skydiving more economical for all involved. What would a jump ticket cost if the FAA were actually running the drop zones?

Actions are optional; consequences are not.

[heims 0]

He was grounded for a week.

[gjhdiver 0]

I've seen more of these kids over the years as a Instructor and a DZ manager than I care to mention. I guess I'm getting old and jaded, but we just had another 29 jump hotshot at our place, talking about getting a 135 stiletto, and how he wasn't afraid of dying.

He wouldn't listen, and he seemed destined to make a large stain of himself, so off to another DZ he goes, whare I believe he now has his Stiletto 135, loaded at 1.8:1, and no doubt on a fast track to a divot.

Bottom line, some idiots you can't train. Just keep out of their part of sky until they either wise up, or the inevitable happens.

Darwin didn't do all that research for nothing you know.

[heims 0]

Part of the problem with this kid is he is not just putting himself at risk. Many of the reckless things he's done have put others at risk. The intentional cutaway at 1500 without a third rig is just the latest in a laundry list of careless actions. He believes he has better skills than he does and is always out to prove it rather than listen to guidance as to how to safely build those skills.

Another thing to think about is what it means to the DZ and to our sport if we end up with a preventable death.

[happythoughts 0]

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and how he wasn't afraid of dying.

There's a lot of stuff in skydiving that is worse than dying. There's almost dying.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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and how he wasn't afraid of dying.

There's a lot of stuff in skydiving that is worse than dying. There's almost dying.

Yeah...Para/Quadraplegia comes to mind... I'd sooner be dead than to live the balance of my life like Christopher Reeve.

[happythoughts 0]

Two instances always stick out in my mind.

Once at WFFC, a guy with 1000+ jumps didn't follow the breakoff plan and dumped under my g/f nearly killing her. If I ever killed a friend, I wouldn't be able to stand it.

The other was also at WFFC, I watched a guy hook in and bounce 4 feet in the air breaking almost everything. He is probably living a life of daily pain. Avoidable pain.

There is two types of BSRs. Those that keep your safe from self-dumbness. Those that keep you safe from other people.

[TheAnvil 0]

Is there a way to send him back to AFF level 5 or something of the sort? Revoke his license perhaps? I mean if he's not listening and doing things of that sort repeatedly after counseling, something of that nature might be in order. Repeating levels 5-7 a couple of times would be so monetarily punitive I doubt he'd repeat more than once.

That's pretty drastic, but perhaps that's what this dude needs if he's going to stay in the sport.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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dont just sit there and laugh at them and call them a dumbass repeatedly

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So guys, please think of more mature and intelligent ways to get a point across.

Quoting Tribaltalon from THIS thread, "yeah yeah. just wait until she gets more freefly jumps under her belt, then she'll be like us sitting on the plane pretending to visualize rw docks mocking the rw people. Lots of fun, i tell ya."

Hmmm...he expects respect when he does stupid things that endanger himself and others, yet he openly admits to mocking skydivers' visualizing just because they practice a discipline that he does not. This quote of his is minor, but it does show that his attitude, in general, is lacking in maturity. I think that one must give respect in order to get it.

Life and death is not something that can be carelessly and ignorantly played with. It seems like Tribaltalon needs a taste of reality. I hope that people at his DZ trying to help him keep up with the tough love attitude because he seems to only be responding to that. Perhaps it will do him some good.

[gjhdiver 0]

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and how he wasn't afraid of dying.

There's a lot of stuff in skydiving that is worse than dying. There's almost dying.

This point was made to him, but he clearly considers himself invincible.

Mind you, this sport has a great record of disabusing people of this notion.

[TribalTalon 0]

and yes, i did do an intentional at about 2,000 feet, and the rest of the story that wasnt mentioned was that i sat down with the Safety advisor, Kyle, and we had a long talk about it. I told him my reasons for doing it, which i dont feel like going into AGAIN, as nobody listens anyway, and he told me why everybody was concerned, and we came to an understanding, he understood why i did it, and i understood why he was concerned. As far as i am concerned, that was it. I expressed my concern that people were probably going to get mad that i wasnt grounded longer, and he said to not worry about them, that he was the only one who could do anything about it, which he proved last weekend. I will no longer be frequenting this dropzone, as much as i like the dropzone boss, and some of the people who go there. I will say that there arent alot of egos at the dz like at other dz's that i have gone to, but the stories tend to get grossly overblown. but anyway, i do something slightly stupid or dumb, as newbies with jump numbers like mine can only be expected to do as part of the learning process, people change the story to make it REALLY stupid and life threatening, then i spend a week or two explaining to everyone on the fucking planet what actually happened, and i'm tired of this cycle. Skydiving is a bad ass sport, but i wont deal with this anymore. I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading, because at least the people are a WHOLE lot nicer, and the stories may get blown out of proportion, but not in a dangerous sense. Right now, i could tell the entire planet lots of really wonderful stories about the safety of a couple people at the dropzone, and some of the accidents that have happened there, but unlike some of these fucking turds, i had a little bit of respect for them, which is GONE now. so, that having been said, its been nice knowing some of you. this is my LAST post on dropzone.com, and as tarek (flyingarab.com) knows, when i say something, unlike the vast majority of people i know, i do it. So, hey, have a ball ripping me to pieces, i know the people at my dz love to do it. good bye.

edited for personal attack.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Skydiving is a bad ass sport, but i wont deal with this anymore. I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading...good bye.

Give ya ten bucks for your FF suit...

[Dougiefresh 0]

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I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading...good bye.

Good riddance.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Brains 2]

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I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading,

How if you are as broke as you always say on here??

Oh well, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[freeflynick 0]

Don,
You got yourself into this situation by posting your rant on here instead of addressing the people invovled directly, in a mature, adult way.
I'm sure your reasoning to the S&TA for your chop was something along the lines of "I wanted to experiance a cut-away in a controlled and planned situation" - that is exactly what tertiaries are for. Please don't flatter yourself by thinking that you were the first person to want to do a cutaway to see what it was like. You need to learn that older or more experienced people DO know more than you, and that you are rarely the first person to think of or want to try something that is new to you, so ask first. These people are there to help you do things in the best, safest way possible.
Your response here to just jack everything in because of the flaming you set yourself for, and knew you were setting yourself up for, just goes to show how immature you are, and even if you didn't jack it in now, I really dont think you have what it takes to make it in skydiving. That requires the ability to listen, learn, accept critisizm (often phrased along the lines of "You asshole! What were you thinking!?") and realize that you are not the tits, and probably never will be.
Good luck in what you do, and maybe in a few years you will look back on your actions and the way you handled this situation and realize your mistakes and be able to get back into skydiving, and progress in the sport....the right way.

.

Hobbes: "How come we play 'War' and not 'Peace'?"
Calvin: "Too few role models."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I've never met you, I don't know you and I can't really recall talking to you here very much on DZ.COM. And because of all of this, I'm NOT going to judge you. You are who you are and the world would be a better place if people didn't judge people as much as they do.

But somethings have been said here (both by you and by others) which seems to repeat itself (not only with you, but with others as well). It's not easy for someone with a year in the sport and over 100 jumps to accept that they haven't grown up yet. But the fact remains that people in your position (and I'm not all that different than you) still have much to learn. We constantly experience new things in this sport and none of us are equal. We are all different. Some people are better in free fall than others (despite having lower jump numbers) and some people are better under canopy. So jump numbers and even time in the sport are not true indications of skill. But when a more experience person who's been in the sport sees something wrong and they choose to talk to us, we are not only doing ourselves a favor by listening to them, we are also doing our fellow jumpers a favor. Now I'm not saying that you think you know it all, but if you do think you know it all, then maybe you should take up another sport. I know personally I am constantly going through new experiences and just when I think I'm on the right track towards being that "experienced bad ass skydiver" something comes along and nips me in the butt to remind myself that I still have much to learn and to experience.

I have seen your posts in the BASE boards talking about having a hard time getting people to help you with your BASE goals, but instead of blaming others. Maybe you really need to look in the mirror to figure out why people feel the way they do. I am a total BASE newbie myself. But one thing I did learn the other week when I was at the Perrine, is that BASE is some serious shit requiring very good canopy control and very good jump/don't-jump decisions. So as fun as BASE is, you really need to have the appropriate skills and attitude if you want to survive.

I'm going to get off of the soap-box now (before someone starts hurling tomatoes my way). But if you truly want to skydive and BASE jump, then you must look from within yourself to find the right attitude which will make the other more experienced people stand up and take notice that you are serious about your goals, serious about safety and willing to learn. The people who have been in these sports longer than you and I know more than you and I currently do. They've either seen it or experienced it. So don't shun people because they think you are doing something wrong. Listen to them with an open mind and then make your decisions from there.

DZ.COM has it's good and it's bad aspects, but I can't for the life of me see myself quit jumping (baring a serious injury, illness or poverty) just because I don't get along with everyone at the DZ or here on DZ.COM. You can choose to ignore this post, reply to it (or in a PM) and I won't judge you. It's all good because I know that I'm only four days away from my next jumping adventures (likely up in Twin Falls where the most bodacious legal span exists for me to learn and enhance my skills on). But please know that there is no way in hell someone with hundreds jumps knows more than people with thousands of jumps. I have to remind myself of this fact almost everytime I'm about to put my foot in my mouth (and my toe crud sure is tasty ... not a very good taste ... but tasty nonetheless).

Cheers ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AggieDave 6]

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I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading, because at least the people are a WHOLE lot nicer, and the stories may get blown out of proportion, but not in a dangerous sense.

You know, I've been in a lot of different hobbies and sports, skydiving is the only one where people will go out of their way to truely help another jumper in need. I've hung with off-road types and have spent time off-roading, I didn't find the same sort of sense of community there as I did with skydiving.

Well, good luck to ya.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Clownburner 0]

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I sold my rig with the intent to downsize, but now instead i am just going to get back into offroading...

Frankly, I'm happy to read this. He may have annoyed the pants off a lot of us, and he may have done some stupid things.

But the good news is that he's not skydiving anymore, and you all probably just saved a life, not to mention some bad publicity for the sport we all love.

And no, that's not a sarcastic comment.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[airtwardo 6]

Canuck~
Well thought out and extremely well stated!

I never met the 'Ex-TT' but a couple of thoughts
come to mind.

If you're gonna be stupid, ya gotta be tough!

Both physically & mentally.

This person doesn't seem to be mentally tough,
because after the criticism got harsh...
he 'got gone'

This sport has a way of "Thinning the Herd"
natural selection as in the Strong (& smart) Survive.

The two ways those 'less than suited' for skydiving
tend to quit is either by denting the planet,
or taking their crayons and going home because
of hurt feelings.

(The place I started jumping, they just handed you
a golf ball...C-YA!)

This jumper couldn't take the heat,
so he's leaving the kitchen...

Probably saved his life.
...and the world is a better place!


Also like to add,
Don't know what the reasons were for the
intentional cut away,
don't know of 'any' myself...


But if I would have been in the sky with you,
and you chopped a good canopy for no reason...
without telling everyone on the load first-

One of us would have had to see a dentist!

Jumpers tend not to expect some meat bomb whizzing past
after opening & looking around and confirming everyone
near them is under a good parachute.

If you want to kill yourself...Let me get my camera!
You try and put me in the way...I'm off to jail (again!)

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tunaplanet 0]

Lots of negative comments about this guy.

Just answer one question for me.

Who here has actually seen first hand him actually doing unsafe things and not heard about them from a friend, PM, rumors, little birds or psychic visions?

Forty-two

[Beerlight 0]

First of all, some of you that are posting harshly at TT need to back the fuck off, and take a long hard look at yourselves before slamming the door in the boyz face.. Don't let my 6 jump number fool you, I've been in/around this sport since 1986 and seen a ton a shit and a ton of people doing stupid shit and eventually changing to be safe jumpers.

Don't shit on the young mans parade....Change in a person does happen, although it might take more time for some people...

Now if TT was being dangerous to others around him, then fine, dump on him the right amount, show him his errors, but don't force him to leave the sport!

I've done some stupid shit in my younger days, should have died on a couple occasions, but luckily and thankfully, I had "friends" finally get it in my face, and made me see the error of my ways. Now that I'm over 40, my feelings of self preservation kick in just about everytime I see something unsafe. Funny how growing up and growing older can have that affect...

So TT, don't give up something you love. Do listen to those around you that care, those around you with experience, and those around you that probably made the mistakes, realized said mistakes, and adjusted to them and became safe jumpers....

To you without sin, cast the first stone....

Yep, I didn't see anybody throwing........

Buck

[airtwardo 6]

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first hand

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He stated himself in a post above that he's done some
things that put him in the 'Short Bus' category...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~