Leg straps - OUCH???

[billydelgiudice 0]

So I'm doing the whole "selling everything I can to buy my first rig" thing. I'm not wealthy so I can't just dump 4 grand on a new setup. That said, I bought a friend's main and want to spend the bulk of my money on a NEW custom container/harness system.

Question is:
Until I own new and custom gear, how can I avoid the EXCRUCIATING pain leg straps cause me?? I've jumped many rigs from student gear (Vectors) to brand new Javelins. Right now I'm jumping a rental Racer and the openings are destroying my legs. I cinch the straps down really well. I pack so my openings are extremely slow and pleasant. But once open, shit.

Do I just have to sack up and accept that canopy rides are rough on the legs? Does this get better eventually? Honestly it's to the point of really ruining my desire to jump.

[mrbiceps 0]

Are u talking about the pain of the leg straps during the whole canopy ride? If so i had the same problem and i got a piece of advice that was excellent. Under canopy my body was very upright meaning you could draw a straight line down my spine to my femur if u get what i mean. when u fly like this the legs straps ride right up in your crotch area and were killing me. i was told to bend at the waist and pretend i was sitting in a chair and i usually reach behind my legs and pull the leg straps down the back of my legs towards my knees. This moves the pressure of the leg straps from your crotch to the back of your legs which is so much more comfy. try this and i am sure it will help you.

[Will_Evo 0]

First off, are you sure getting a new container is a good idea? Most people would advise you to buy used, only because this is a rig your still learning on, and undoubtedly will downsize with time. If you are starting on a 190, and buy a container to fit it, you'll be up a creek when you get down to 150 and will be needed to spend more money.

Second, just like the above poster said, while you are under canopy, lift one knee up towards your chest at a time, doing this will release all the pressure of your weight from that leg strap, then just slid it down a few inches towards your knee. Puts you in more of a sit than a hang.

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[riggerrob 558]

On jump run, make sure that your leg straps are riding high in your crotch.
Opening shock will slide them high in your crotch anyways, but if they are already high, then you will not get bruised.
Ask a local jumpmaster or rigger to inspect your harness fit.

[skybytch 259]

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. If you are starting on a 190, and buy a container to fit it, you'll be up a creek when you get down to 150 and will be needed to spend more money.

??

Most rigs out there that were built for a 190 will hold a 150 just fine.

Not every jumper is going to want to downsize rapidly. Some people choose to actually learn to fly a canopy at 1.0-ish before going smaller. This process, when done with an eye toward safety and not with an "I'm that fucking good" attitude, will take at least a couple hundred jumps.

If a newbie can't get 500 jumps out of their first rig, they are either downsizing way too fast or they bought a real P.O.S...

[billydelgiudice 0]

I completely agree. I didn't start on a 190, I've downsized slowly to a 190. I'm buying it to fit a 190 and a 170. By the time I can fly a 150 (I'm already loading the 190 at 1.2:1) I'll need to lose a few pounds and gain experience under canopy. I'm not out to impress anyone with hotshot canopy maneuvers. I also think it's kind of weird for someone with 10 more jumps than I have to be doling out downsizing advice.

[billydelgiudice 0]

"i was told to bend at the waist and pretend i was sitting in a chair and i usually reach behind my legs and pull the leg straps down the back of my legs towards my knees."

Won't that increase the risk of falling out of the harness? Even if it's only a slight increase...

[billydelgiudice 0]

On jump run, make sure that your leg straps are riding high in your crotch.
Opening shock will slide them high in your crotch anyways, but if they are already high, then you will not get bruised.
Ask a local jumpmaster or rigger to inspect your harness fit.

Yes, I do this very thing exactly. It's helped a few times but not recently.

[jenkincb00 0]

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"i was told to bend at the waist and pretend i was sitting in a chair and i usually reach behind my legs and pull the leg straps down the back of my legs towards my knees."

Won't that increase the risk of falling out of the harness? Even if it's only a slight increase...

No...I don't think this increases the chances of falling out of the harness, would take a real act of stupidity to fall out of the harness in this manner.

[Will_Evo 0]

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. If you are starting on a 190, and buy a container to fit it, you'll be up a creek when you get down to 150 and will be needed to spend more money.

??

Most rigs out there that were built for a 190 will hold a 150 just fine.

Not every jumper is going to want to downsize rapidly. Some people choose to actually learn to fly a canopy at 1.0-ish before going smaller. This process, when done with an eye toward safety and not with an "I'm that fucking good" attitude, will take at least a couple hundred jumps.

If a newbie can't get 500 jumps out of their first rig, they are either downsizing way too fast or they bought a real P.O.S...

Why do people assume everything, and respond so rudely?

I do not know for every rig, but I know mine, and a few others I have seen are usually built to be able to hold the largest size, like say 190, and one "normal" size down like 170. At least that is what manufacturers recommend.

I never said every jumper wants to downsize rapidly, that is why i said EVENTUALLY***. Regardless if someone takes 500 or 1000 jumps to downsize, buying a new container for your first rig, can be a slight waste of money in the long run, but it is up to a personal preference.

Also, I dont appreciate the assumptions and rude remarks of your post. I am still new, and have no plans on downsizing. I am loaded at 1.0ish. I don't have a "Im that fucking good" attitude. maybe reading the post fully and not jumping to conclusions would be a good start.

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I completely agree. I didn't start on a 190, I've downsized slowly to a 190. I'm buying it to fit a 190 and a 170. By the time I can fly a 150 (I'm already loading the 190 at 1.2:1) I'll need to lose a few pounds and gain experience under canopy. I'm not out to impress anyone with hotshot canopy maneuvers. I also think it's kind of weird for someone with 10 more jumps than I have to be doling out downsizing advice.

I am not trying to be mean, but you havn't downsized slowly at all if your at 50 jumps, same goes for me. I went from jumping a 200 student rig to a 170 personal rig. Very fast downsize(in retrospect), but not at all out of my limits, considering I am loaded at 1.07ish.

I am not giving you downsize advice what so ever, I did not give you a single piece of advice as to when and how fast to downsize, I simply said that its likely you will want to downsize eventually(I know this because your exact question is asked almost every week, and the same information is given every time) and that it might be a better idea to buy used.



-Evo

Zoo Crew

[Snowflake 0]

I would have bought a new container and everything else used if I hadn't gotten such a great deal on my complete rig. I downsized from the 170 the container was sized for to a 150 and then a 135. No problems except I didn't like the the aesthetics of the rig with a 135. I almost had more jumps with the 135 then all the other canopies combined. I also had several riggers look at it because I didn't like the way it looked with the 135. None of them indicated that I had any issues with the 135 configuration

[TonyJ 0]

what main are you jumping? are you sure you know what a soft opening is? the reason i ask is, i use to have a canopy.. it slammed open all the time, then after opening i had to slide the leg straps down to make the pain from the opening less...i thought this was normal... then i bought a spectre..... no pain... same rig....

[billydelgiudice 0]

Well to be fair, you have no idea what size I started on, so there's nothing on which to gauge my downsizing to begin with. The SIM, DZOs, and riggers all agree on a downsizing such as the one you listed. Starting on a 200 and ending up on a 170 at 60 jumps isn't fast at all; it's standard. To go from the recommended .7 as a student to a 1.0 by a B license isn't that crazy. A 200 to a 110, sure.

Also, my question isn't about downsizing, it's about harness leg straps on a rig that fits great.

[billydelgiudice 0]

It's a Triathlon 190. I'm definitely sure about soft openings. I've been slammed and for that reason I pack for my usual 800' opening. It's very slow and comfortable. A hard opening would be easy to diagnose but this is a soft opening PLUS painful leg straps. Maybe I just need extra foam in those damn things.

[captain1976 0]

I Use to have the same problem. On several occasions I seriously considered cutting away to get some relief from the pain, even if it were for a short period. Anything to relieve the pain. It also made making more than 1 jump impossible as it took a few days to heal.
I though it may have been the harness, but since I had it custom sized for me, I just figured everyone else was tougher than me.
In earlier years I never had a problem but it was only after I started jumping again in 2001.

The solution? I loosened my leg straps a bit. I guess they were too tight and would pinch my legs terribly. Every canopy ride since is painless and very comfortable, at least for the last 100 jumps.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[billydelgiudice 0]

Well it sounds like I'm not alone. Originally I had the straps too loose. I think the fix might be custom gear with wide straps and foam. I will try re-positioning them under canopy. Thanks everyone.

[mnskydiver688 0]

Unless their first rig was designed to hold a 210 and it already had a 170 in it. Also it depends if it is a rig with a closing loop attached to the tray or a flap. Also what if you decide to go from a 190 nine cell to a 150 seven cell? Just some things that throw a kink into it.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[skybytch 259]

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Also, I dont appreciate the assumptions and rude remarks of your post. I am still new

A couple suggestions for ya then:

1) "maybe reading the post fully and not jumping to conclusions would be a good start."

Take your own advice. Grow a thicker skin. Don't assume that the words you read here are meant in the way you take them. In all likelihood, they were not.

2) You're new to the sport. This is the time to be asking questions about skydiving, not answering them. You'll gain much respect from other more experienced jumpers by doing so, and refraining from telling the world what someone else told you just may keep incorrect information from spreading.

[martlet 0]

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Well it sounds like I'm not alone. Originally I had the straps too loose. I think the fix might be custom gear with wide straps and foam. I will try re-positioning them under canopy. Thanks everyone.

It's your rig. Your new one should be fine if you did the measurements correctly.

[timmyfitz 0]

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Also, I dont appreciate the assumptions and rude remarks of your post. I am still new

A couple suggestions for ya then:

1) "maybe reading the post fully and not jumping to conclusions would be a good start."

Take your own advice. Grow a thicker skin. Don't assume that the words you read here are meant in the way you take them. In all likelihood, they were not.

2) You're new to the sport. This is the time to be asking questions about skydiving, not answering them. You'll gain much respect from other more experienced jumpers by doing so, and refraining from telling the world what someone else told you just may keep incorrect information from spreading.

That is so funny because it is so true. New jumpers (under 200?) do seem to regurgitate information they hear as true whether it's true or not because they don't know what they don't know. It seems a bit more prevalent here on (anonymous) DZ.com than in person.

[brettski74 0]

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First off, are you sure getting a new container is a good idea? Most people would advise you to buy used, only because this is a rig your still learning on, and undoubtedly will downsize with time. If you are starting on a 190, and buy a container to fit it, you'll be up a creek when you get down to 150 and will be needed to spend more money.

I generally advise new jumpers against buying new for both the harness/container and the canopy, but the reasons for each are different. The reasoning you've stated is one of the reasons why I would suggest against buying a new canopy for your first rig. On the other hand, if you make a smart decision on the container size, your first container can should last you through two downsizes, so you will get a lot of jumps and/or years out of it. The reason that I suggest against a new container purchase for your first rig is that you don't know what you don't know which can come into play in at least two ways:

Everyone has their own brand preferences. No one preference is right or wrong, it's just an opinion. Few people have enough gear knowledge and experience to make a well-informed decision on what they really like when they have perhaps 100 or less jumps.

I've seen enough people come into the sport, buy gear and then give it all up within a year or two that to me it doesn't make financial sense to buy your first container new. None of those people thought they would be over it within a year. They were all just as much into it as I was at the time. If you buy a new container, in addition to the higher initial purchase price, expect to take a bigger loss when you sell than you would on a well maintained used container.

New gear will always be there and if you wait a few hundred jumps, you'll be in a much better position to figure out whether you're here to stay or just passing through and you'll also have a much better idea of what things in a rig might matter to you, as opposed to everyone else.

[brettski74 0]

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Do I just have to sack up and accept that canopy rides are rough on the legs? Does this get better eventually? Honestly it's to the point of really ruining my desire to jump.

There are a couple of things to think about. Body position and/or positioning of the leg straps whilst under canopy may help and on the upside, this doesn't require you to change anything about the gear. Given that these are rental rigs, this may be the only option available to you.

Aside from that, I can tell you a couple of gear related things that can make a difference. Modern rigs generally have a good amount of padding around the leg straps. This prevents the load-bearing webbing from cutting into you so harshly. Older rigs may have less padding, or the padding may be worn through normal wear and tear. I have an old Vector 2 which I still use as a backup rig in a pinch. The first time I jumped it after getting my Vector 3, I found it extremely uncomfortable. As a result, I had a rigger sew new foam padding into the leg straps. After that, it was much more comfortable. Perhaps not quite as good as my new V3, but at least in the same ball park.

Another thing that may make a difference is how well the harness fits you. I've test jumped my girlfriend's rig. She's shorter and smaller than I am, so while I can fit into her rig, I have to adjust the leg straps much longer to do so. This leads to more webbing directly exposed to my body without padding underneath it. Again, this made for a less comfortable jump. If the harness is not an ideal fit for you, then it may be that the padding just isn't long enough to make the canopy ride comfortable for you. Selecting a rig with a larger harness may improve the situation for you.

[Will_Evo 0]

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Also, I dont appreciate the assumptions and rude remarks of your post. I am still new

A couple suggestions for ya then:

1) "maybe reading the post fully and not jumping to conclusions would be a good start."

Take your own advice. Grow a thicker skin. Don't assume that the words you read here are meant in the way you take them. In all likelihood, they were not.

2) You're new to the sport. This is the time to be asking questions about skydiving, not answering them. You'll gain much respect from other more experienced jumpers by doing so, and refraining from telling the world what someone else told you just may keep incorrect information from spreading.

That is so funny because it is so true. New jumpers (under 200?) do seem to regurgitate information they hear as true whether it's true or not because they don't know what they don't know. It seems a bit more prevalent here on (anonymous) DZ.com than in person.

Ok so your saying that maneuvering leg straps to be more comfortable under canopy is bad information and is wrong? I mean that is what this post was all about, and I gave very sound advice that was given to me, which I used and found it worked perfectly. What about that did I "not know"? I don't step in a and give people advice about wingsuiting, or base jumping, or piloting skills, because I dont know, and don't have enough experience, but when it is something I DO know, then I see no reason for not helping.

My little tid bit about not getting a new rig for your first, was derived from 1. Advice that was given to me by many experienced jumpers, and 2. The advice I see many experienced jumpers giving people on these forums, again what about what I said did I "not know"?

Man, the more I spend time on these forums, the more it just gets annoying. People just make it absolutely terrible to be a low jump number skydiver, and discount any and everything you know to nothing. What is it you have against new jumpers? You think low jump number has something to do with overall intellect? I may be new in skydiving, but I have great common sense, and a good head on my shoulders. I know when it would be inappropriate for me to give advice, many times I read a topic, digest it and move on, but when there are topics I can help out in, I do give some of the little info I DO know. Somehow though you've managed to find a problem with that....

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[brettski74 0]

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My little tid bit about not getting a new rig for your first, was derived from 1. Advice that was given to me by many experienced jumpers, and 2. The advice I see many experienced jumpers giving people on these forums, again what about what I said did I "not know"?

Refer to my post above. There are many people who will tell you to buy used for your first rig, but as far as the container is concerned, the reasons for buying used first has nothing to do with downsizing, which is the reason you gave.

Back to the original comment which prompted skybytch's reply, she was right on the money. You made a comment about containers that was incorrect. She corrected you. She then went on to explain further why some of what you said may not be applicable. She did not make any comment about what you said about body position in the harness. There was no judging there, but you seem to have taken it that way. Seriously, chill.

[billydelgiudice 0]

Sheesh. I didn't mean to start any shit. I don't want to perpetuate a debate. I just wrote a giant post on this subject but it exhausts me. I'll try and sum it up.

While I respect and appreciate a certain amount of advice based on experience, PLEASE stop killing the sport for new jumpers. It seems everyone bases their opinion of new jumpers on the number of times that person has jumped out of an airplane before knowing the entire story. And if it isn't higher than yours, you're allowed to belittle that person.

You don't know everyone's background. A skydiver with 50 jumps may have thousands of hours in a tunnel, meaning possibly many more hours of freefall time than you have as a D licensee. So when he posts something about head down, you might not know as much as he does. (I know the tunnel and the sky are different, but I'm making a point)

I've been a pilot for years and I've NEVER discounted something a new pilot would tell me.

1. He's fresh to the material. I'd be stupid and unsafe to patronize him.

2. Every story has a lesson. If someone with less experience than I have can inform me of something from which I can learn, I'll be that much safer myself.

Last week at the DZ, a student with 16 jumps was asked what he was doing before we got on the load. He said, "some freeflying." A freefly coach replied with a series of questions about the student's background, and advised the student not to freefly at this juncture based on his answers. He didn't look at the water gear around his waist and start dishing out a "you can't do that because..." lecture. If we had more of that we'd feel less alienated as new jumpers.