skybytch 259 #126 January 3, 2005 QuoteAre you calling Bill Booth one of the 7 dwarfs? I've never heard Bill claim that tandem skydiving is safe, so no, I don't think he's a part of what I see to be a problem. And yes, I know you were making a funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #127 January 3, 2005 QuoteI've never heard Bill claim that tandem skydiving is safe, so no I'm sure you've seen the RWS "waiver video" right? He's pretty serious along those lines. (I still think what I said was funny, though.)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #128 January 3, 2005 QuoteQuoteI've never heard Bill claim that tandem skydiving is safe, so no I'm sure you've seen the RWS "waiver video" right? He's pretty serious along those lines. (I still think what I said was funny, though.) We had the number of times the other tandem waiver video guy mentioned "Serious injury or Death" memorized. At times we used it for a drinking game after hours... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #129 January 3, 2005 QuoteWe had the number of times the other tandem waiver video guy mentioned "Serious injury or Death" memorized. At times we used it for a drinking game after hours.. Hahahaha! "Ok, we're going to go in 5 to 10 seKonds..." Thanks Bill, I wouldn't have noticed...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #130 January 3, 2005 When I see a dropzone that fits this description, it makes me question what Ted Strong and Bill Booth were thinking when they created this jump method. Why on earth would anyone think it would be a good idea to slap two bodies together under a single harness? Where is the logic? It looks ridiculous on video and the landings look frightening to say the least. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm game! I'll feed the troll! Bill Booth invented tandems so he could f**k in freefall! As for your question about drogues ... I can answer that because I am a crusty old curmudgeon of a TI. I know why they installed drogues because I made a bunch of jumps on drogue-less Tandem Vector 1s with Pioneer Hi-Lifter 370 and PD-360 mains. The best openings only hurt a little. Bad openings hurt a lot. It is the old aerodynamic dilemma of being able to design a canopy that will open well at low airspeeds or high airspeeds, but not both. First generation tandem mains were designed as reserves, so they had to open quickly at low airspeeds. The disadvantage was that they opened painfully hard at high airspeeds. Few first generation TIs are still jumping and I had to take three years off for my spine to heal. Nowadays few TIs are confident that they can stay stable without a drogue. Hee! Hee! Finally - in response to your question about what would happen if the FAA banned tandem - I would have to get a "real job." Gagging noises! Retching noises! Vomiting noises! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #131 January 3, 2005 QuoteNowadays few TIs are confident that they can stay stable without a drogue. Hey now, I haven't had to use a drogue for stability on any of my past 50 sport jumps...before that though...ouch.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #132 January 4, 2005 QuoteQuote Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #133 January 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteLet's not forget how Bill and Tedd are clueless about what they did and had no idea as to the impact of tandems. Has anyone asked them why they did it? LOL... WTF is this? Go ahead, ask him, WHY ARE YOU SO DAMN CREATIVE!!! Why are you trying to create new things for our sport?.. Why dont you just go ahead and ask why they made the 3 ring too, seems that the sport is just getting too damn safe for the new jumpers, or mabey we are just giving too much of that impression (as people have implied in earlier posts).. Clearly we are not the same breed of skydiver as what you all used to be, which I do agree with my last statement to an extent, however seriously this thread is just getting stupid.. Tandems are the only reason ALOT of us are in this sport today, if you think that's a bad thing go right on ahead, however I personally am DAMN HAPPY that I was able to do this crazy two person under one canopy thing that apparently looks so damn bad on video, because it just happened to get me hooked, and I am really happy that I have not missed out on everything I have experienced so far. Know what? IT WAS WORTH EVERY DAMN PENNY! FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,085 #134 January 4, 2005 Dear God, Kbone. You've been jumping for how long and have how many jumps... How many thousands have you watched come through the doors to learn to be skydivers, make one jump and head out the door, never to be seen or heard from again. How many hours have you invested in the AFF or S/L ground school for less than minimum wage and personal sacrifice of opportunity cost for jumps lost? We have two choices... a) we can figure out a way to make AFF and S/L a longer than learn today, jump today, hey I lived, I'm lucky, I better walk away while I'm ahead program, thereby going back to the old days of two weeks of tuesdays and thursday before your first jump to build confidence, or 2) we can embrace that they can feel the same way and have a better time without the stress of the AFF program. Sorry, but I believe a lot more strongly in the Tandem Progression Method than I do the AFF method... More folks return than I ever saw when it was just AFF. More folks recommend Tandem after having done one than AFF, And, there are DZ's that can demonstrate a greater than 50% return for a CAT B jump in the Tandem Progression Method than do in the AFF program. And since your question "had more to do with dropzones becoming overly dependant on a single training method." How is that any different than the late 80's and 90's when everyone was hard-schooling AFF over static-line... didn't we hear this same argument? IMO, if the Tandem Progession Method had come along before AFF; AFF wouldn't exist. From a financial perspective... My DZ's gross profit is $15.00 for a C-182 of four experienced skydivers ($8.00 after taxes, et. al.). Ten loads of experienced folks = $80.00 for the day. That same C-182 makes the DZ $95.00 for ONE LOAD with two tandems. You do the math. You no likey the trend? Step aside, we got tandems.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #135 January 4, 2005 QuoteSince he put in his dz.com bio that he is a tandem master, I wanted him to step up to the plate and reduce the cost. He has put a lot of things in his DZ.com profile. How many of them do you think are true. I've jumped the same DZ's he claims for almost 30 years and have never heard of him. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #136 January 4, 2005 QuoteYou no likey the trend? Step aside, we got tandems. Now that is funny, I can just see Keith saying that. And if he was standing there in front of someone, I'm sure they would get the hell out of his way.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,085 #137 January 4, 2005 Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #138 January 4, 2005 QuoteHe has put a lot of things in his DZ.com profile. How many of them do you think are true. Zip, zero, nada. There are other trolls who post here, but most are fairly benign. Just 13 yo boys that are content to ask for the occasional boobie pic. Given that this is the internet, why ask here? This "guy" generally only posts to his own threads. He generally says something so inflammatory that it pisses off everyone else. Probably his wife pissed on his cornflakes again, so he takes it out on us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #139 January 4, 2005 QuoteProbably his wife pissed on his cornflakes again, so he takes it out on us. Bill, if he looks like his picture he either has a blind wife or he's not marriedMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. 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nate_1979 9 #133 January 4, 2005 QuoteQuoteLet's not forget how Bill and Tedd are clueless about what they did and had no idea as to the impact of tandems. Has anyone asked them why they did it? LOL... WTF is this? Go ahead, ask him, WHY ARE YOU SO DAMN CREATIVE!!! Why are you trying to create new things for our sport?.. Why dont you just go ahead and ask why they made the 3 ring too, seems that the sport is just getting too damn safe for the new jumpers, or mabey we are just giving too much of that impression (as people have implied in earlier posts).. Clearly we are not the same breed of skydiver as what you all used to be, which I do agree with my last statement to an extent, however seriously this thread is just getting stupid.. Tandems are the only reason ALOT of us are in this sport today, if you think that's a bad thing go right on ahead, however I personally am DAMN HAPPY that I was able to do this crazy two person under one canopy thing that apparently looks so damn bad on video, because it just happened to get me hooked, and I am really happy that I have not missed out on everything I have experienced so far. Know what? IT WAS WORTH EVERY DAMN PENNY! FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,085 #134 January 4, 2005 Dear God, Kbone. You've been jumping for how long and have how many jumps... How many thousands have you watched come through the doors to learn to be skydivers, make one jump and head out the door, never to be seen or heard from again. How many hours have you invested in the AFF or S/L ground school for less than minimum wage and personal sacrifice of opportunity cost for jumps lost? We have two choices... a) we can figure out a way to make AFF and S/L a longer than learn today, jump today, hey I lived, I'm lucky, I better walk away while I'm ahead program, thereby going back to the old days of two weeks of tuesdays and thursday before your first jump to build confidence, or 2) we can embrace that they can feel the same way and have a better time without the stress of the AFF program. Sorry, but I believe a lot more strongly in the Tandem Progression Method than I do the AFF method... More folks return than I ever saw when it was just AFF. More folks recommend Tandem after having done one than AFF, And, there are DZ's that can demonstrate a greater than 50% return for a CAT B jump in the Tandem Progression Method than do in the AFF program. And since your question "had more to do with dropzones becoming overly dependant on a single training method." How is that any different than the late 80's and 90's when everyone was hard-schooling AFF over static-line... didn't we hear this same argument? IMO, if the Tandem Progession Method had come along before AFF; AFF wouldn't exist. From a financial perspective... My DZ's gross profit is $15.00 for a C-182 of four experienced skydivers ($8.00 after taxes, et. al.). Ten loads of experienced folks = $80.00 for the day. That same C-182 makes the DZ $95.00 for ONE LOAD with two tandems. You do the math. You no likey the trend? Step aside, we got tandems.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #135 January 4, 2005 QuoteSince he put in his dz.com bio that he is a tandem master, I wanted him to step up to the plate and reduce the cost. He has put a lot of things in his DZ.com profile. How many of them do you think are true. I've jumped the same DZ's he claims for almost 30 years and have never heard of him. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #136 January 4, 2005 QuoteYou no likey the trend? Step aside, we got tandems. Now that is funny, I can just see Keith saying that. And if he was standing there in front of someone, I'm sure they would get the hell out of his way.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,085 #137 January 4, 2005 Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #138 January 4, 2005 QuoteHe has put a lot of things in his DZ.com profile. How many of them do you think are true. Zip, zero, nada. There are other trolls who post here, but most are fairly benign. Just 13 yo boys that are content to ask for the occasional boobie pic. Given that this is the internet, why ask here? This "guy" generally only posts to his own threads. He generally says something so inflammatory that it pisses off everyone else. Probably his wife pissed on his cornflakes again, so he takes it out on us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #139 January 4, 2005 QuoteProbably his wife pissed on his cornflakes again, so he takes it out on us. Bill, if he looks like his picture he either has a blind wife or he's not marriedMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
