PDF - and their shit attitude to sports skydivers

[bigway 4]

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They gave him the option to cancel multiple times and he chose not to. Now he wants an apology or a discount? Why didn't he just cancel? He obviously thought that a PDF rig is worth an 18 month wait, right? Why isn't he posting great things about them and how their rigs are so great they are worth waiting 18 months for?

I agree he got screwed, but I don't think he should be asking for anything. He should have cancelled his order a loooooong time ago. He was a trooper and stuck with them. That's his own problem.

Dave

Dave, there is alot more to it mate. This guy and his distributor went to great lengths to stick by PD's side. The distributor has had a year of working things out with PDF and is a well respected dealer. She is my idol in this industry.
Anyway, mate, life is more complicated than a few words bitching in a forum. This guy has 18 months of stories to tell about PDF. I dont know why he did not cancel his order, he didnt have to, but i take it he is ranting now just cause he is pissed off about chasing payment or something.

You see, here is the other problem, the distributor tried to pay for it when they ordered it., back then the GBP was strong. PDF would not accept ayment 18 months ago, now they want it, now the GBP has lost 30% of its value in those 18 months and the rig is a fuck load more expensive. So i can understand why this has made the customer explode all over again.

Whaatever the case there will always be lots more to a story in a forum than what a single post says, but in this case crashtest SHOULD be pissed off.

This was a serious fuck up and it only got worse that they did not accept payment upon ordering but only now and the GBP is so shit. The GBP is now even money or something stupid with the euro.

The guys is pissed, let him be i say.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

I dont think he should be asking for anything either. I just understand he is pissed with the whole situation and now he is saying instead of a free tsirt they send me a bill for a 1000gbp more than it was when he ordered it 18 months ago.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[jakee 1,257]

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You see, here is the other problem, the distributor tried to pay for it when they ordered it., back then the GBP was strong. PDF would not accept ayment 18 months ago, now they want it, now the GBP has lost 30% of its value in those 18 months and the rig is a fuck load more expensive. So i can understand why this has made the customer explode all over again.

Why?

He knew they were going to want to be paid when the rig was delivered. This is not a surprise, or unusual. The exchange rate started falling (with no sign of getting better) a long time ago, so it has been very obvious for a long time that the rig would be more expensive than it originally seemed. That was the time to press the issue, not now.

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This guy and his distributor went to great lengths to stick by PDF's side.

There is such a thing as loyalty to the point of stupidity. Sounds like he had the opportunity to cancel for a long time, he should have been out of there like a shot. The main thing this story makes me think is "Dude, what were you thinking?"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[crashtested 0]

Just to make things clear....I don't want a t shirt or a aad or anything, just a public apology.

PDF should make an apology, not just to me but to all the people who have waited and waited.

Its not hard, i'm not asking for blood.

You do this you say "i'm really sorry we fucked up" and then you might say why.

And then you might say "look here's your rig its all correct", (no it is not, thats not the canopy i ordered, that colour looks like a stock canopy that no fucker on the entire planet would buy, "its purple you fuck", i did not order that, after 300 jumps it'll be fucking pink, then i'll look like a big fat fucking fairy)

So do i then ask for the right one and wait another 7 months, or do i just accept that i got a good deal.
No a good deal is when you ask for something and you get what you wanted. this is just a bit piss poor.

Wait look over here.....

the dealer is getting screwed here, because you took so long the markets have crashed,
the'll lose money.

And Pdf should now go, "we'll give you extra time to pay it, not a problem, our mistake in the first place"

PDF your not a little company, do you know what PR stands for in french its "relations publiques" its what you use when you've made a really big mistake.

If i was PDf i'd be on here and explaining what happened!

[bigway 4]

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You see, here is the other problem, the distributor tried to pay for it when they ordered it., back then the GBP was strong. PDF would not accept ayment 18 months ago, now they want it, now the GBP has lost 30% of its value in those 18 months and the rig is a fuck load more expensive. So i can understand why this has made the customer explode all over again.

Why?

He knew they were going to want to be paid when the rig was delivered. This is not a surprise, or unusual. The exchange rate started falling (with no sign of getting better) a long time ago, so it has been very obvious for a long time that the rig would be more expensive than it originally seemed. That was the time to press the issue, not now.

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This guy and his distributor went to great lengths to stick by PDF's side.

There is such a thing as loyalty to the point of stupidity. Sounds like he had the opportunity to cancel for a long time, he should have been out of there like a shot. The main thing this story makes me think is "Dude, what were you thinking?"

You dont pay for rigs after they get delivered mate.
I sell rigs every day and nobody has ever paid me AFTER the rig was delivered.

Nobody ever said anything about loyalty. I said after all the talks he and his distributor had with PDF he was assured his rig would be aready again and again. This was a saga that the date kept changing from 3 months to six months, to 12 months to 18 monthis. When you are in something and after the date has been changed time and time again, some people just think, well i have waited this long, whats another two months, then they go through it all again for 18 months. Just pulling out of the sale is not always the obvious move when the manufacturer keeps saying it will be ready. Maybe he should have given up, but he didnt and that is his chopice in a freakish situation. You cant say how you would react unless you were in the situation, the exact situation he was in, and the only people who will ever know his exact situation will be those presant and in that situation at that time.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[irishrigger 31]

yes you have a right to be pissed off at that kind of service.personally i cant understand how it would take 18 months to build one container.
but there has been many issues raised regarding there customer service,and i am suprised you havent heard of them before.
i have had a couple issues with them before myself.a guy from out club had a mal,lost his handles ,and had to wait 7 months for replacements! 7 months! and they charged his credit card 2 days after the order was placed!!!
one jumpre send his canopy back for a reline,was charged a huge amount and when i went to hook it up ,i did the usual inspection on it,and found that a D-line had been bartacked around the stabeliser! which would have cause a spinning malfunction.i emailed them about it,it took nearly 3 weeks for a reply.and they never even apologised for that!!!
i agree with crashtest, stay well away from PDF there service and customer care is indeed the very worst i have ever come across in my life!

and i beleive that you have no hope in hell of ever getting a apology from them,never mind a public one at that on this forum.

me thinks you have a better chance that aliens will land on our planet first

rodger

[bigway 4]

Just cause the poster did not cancel his order, I dont understand why people would say that its his fault.
One of our skydiving manufacturers just did a MASSIVE deal, buy a rig and a get a free second canopy. 400 people buy this deal in one week. 6 months down the track, they are told it will be another 6 months, all the way until 18 months.

The poster did nothing wrong. he ordered a rig, and he stuck to his part of the aggreement.


The issue here is that a rig has taken 18 months to build after being pulled on a stirng 6 months turned into 18 months and he has finally got his rig.


18 months is not acceptable when promised a rig in 6 months.


IF PDF say the rig will be ready in 6 months then it should be. if it is a month early or a month later then fine, but 18 months is not acceptable.

Billvon says that PDF takes 15 months anyway, firstly what bullshit, secondly if a manufacturer tells a new person to skydiving who is buying his first custom made rig that their product will be ready in 6 months then if it takes 18 months they should apologise to the guy. They should make it right.

Aerodyne, wings, UPT,Icarus, PD, they say something is going to be ready to me everyday,and not one of them has been longer than 3 weeks overdue.

18 months is out of line and the customer should be compensated in some form.

For starters, the canopy he ordered was 18 months ago, he also gets a free downsize. What fucking good is that original canopy he ordered 18 months later?

EDIT: I dont actually think it is the customer who has to pay extra money, i think the dealer is stuck with that.
18 months ago that dealer made a sale and got promised payment. would have collected at least 50% on deposit of order knowing this dealer, she would have done her tax returns for the year in that 18 months, would have put that PROFIT into more stock and building renovations, it would have been spent. That dealer gets invoiced for the rig when it is ready, it took 18 months to be ready and all the rigs in that deal she sold that magical week she then has to pay an extra 30% out of her business cause the exchange went upside down over the last 8 months of that sale.
He is just feeling for her i believe.

His rant is that his rig took 18 months and all he got was a rig he ordered 18 months ago and paid for rental gear since and the wrong colour canopy.

This is not acceptable and this thread is great for those new jumpers that this week are looking for a rig. Not all new jumpers know of bad customer service problems just because a friend of a friend somewhere in the world had bad customer service a couple of years ago.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[jakee 1,257]

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You dont pay for rigs after they get delivered mate.

Sure, OK, but very often you don't pay for stuff until it's actually in production, which is fairly late on in the lead time. PDF told him they wouldn't take payment until they were ready, he knew this was going to happen.

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Nobody ever said anything about loyalty.

"Stuck with them... Believed in them... Stuck by PDF's side..." Sounds to me like you're talking about loyalty. Really, really misplaced loyalty.

Sure PDF is at fault here, massively at fault. Horrible service. But the story still makes me wonder "Dude, what were you thinking?"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>Maybe f you did the research you would realise that this was a great
>marketing idea gone wrong and is not the norm.

I think once you have a bit more experience in the real world you'll realize that 99% of marketing ideas are basically bullshit. Marketing is something that the manufacturer does to sell stuff - it is not all about making skydivers happy. Often it is best to not believe that glossy ad in the magazine, and instead rely on what people's actual experiences are.

> Well SHE is the biggest dealer in the UK and owns the biggest rigging loft
>in the UK.

Great! Perhaps she learned something as well. If she doesn't, and tells people "yeah, PdF is great! They promised to be speedy and so I am sure they will be" she's not a very good gear dealer.

One of the most valuable parts of a good dealer is his/her knowledge of what really happens when you order something. "Well, Bev is saying 8-10 weeks, but she's really out at about 14 based on the last guy who ordered one, and you'll probably have to send it back once." That's why it's often worth it to go to a good dealer rather than the one who just has the best ads, or is the biggest one in the country, or has the lowest prices.

>PDF FUCKED up and they know it.

Of course they did. They've been fucking up for the past 5 years at least.

>PDF fucked up and for you a moderator to come in to this thread and
>slam the original poster who just waited 18 months for his rig is unfair . . .

?? "Not participating in a bitchfest" does not equal "slamming the original poster." Just because I do not feel the requisite hatred towards PdF does not mean that I don't feel bad for the guy. I do. The best remedy for that, next time, is to order from a different manufacturer. The worst possible thing to do is bitch about it on the Internet and then order the same gear again from the same dealer and same manufacturer and expect something different to happen.

[billvon 2,400]

>Billvon says that PDF takes 15 months anyway, firstly what bullshit . . .

Dude, PdF HAS TAKEN THAT LONG! Read the gear reviews. You can expect that to magically change because they're offering a great deal, but that's wishful thinking, not reality.

> and this thread is great for those new jumpers that this week are looking
> for a rig.

That's been my point all along. Had the original poster read and heeded a thread or review like this, he would not have been sitting around for 18 months waiting for his rig. The conclusion a newer jumper can take from this thread is not "order a rig, wait a long time, bitch about it enough and maybe you'll get some free swag." It's "research before you buy" and "buyer beware" (in english this time because some people seem upset by latin!)

[crashtested 0]

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>Billvon says that PDF takes 15 months anyway, firstly what bullshit . . .

Dude, PdF HAS TAKEN THAT LONG! Read the gear reviews. You can expect that to magically change because they're offering a great deal, but that's wishful thinking, not reality.

> and this thread is great for those new jumpers that this week are looking
> for a rig.

That's been my point all along. Had the original poster read and heeded a thread or review like this, he would not have been sitting around for 18 months waiting for his rig. The conclusion a newer jumper can take from this thread is not "order a rig, wait a long time, bitch about it enough and maybe you'll get some free swag." It's "research before you buy" and "buyer beware" (in English this time because some people seem upset by Latin!)

English and Latin in a capital please

I'm only harped off with you BILL because I think over the last 6 months you have lost the small amount of credibility we once thought you had.
Coupled with the fact you can't speak Latin, yet use small phrases which in English law is talking about property law not anything to do with the manufacturing of parachute gear.

But you can move this thread off the main circuit if your still selling your ass out there, that’s all good, one more sell-out to kick in the balls.

Understand Bill this has nothing to do with getting free gear, this is being The person that you have not been for so long now, warning new skydivers off shitty companies... do you remember giving a shit BILL??

I could not give a rats ass about a new AAD, a free t shirt, I just would like a whole year of PDF not selling one more rig to anyone, who thinks that the company keep there word... those new guys who miss the OBVIOUS, it was not spelt out in capitals when I ordered my Rig.. when they PROMISED a 6 month lead time

Principles BILL, do you remember what they are.... its nothing personal, its doing the right thing.

HEY BILL, you a member of the uspa yet??

HEY BILL that latin phrase here’s the translation

IF YOU CAN READ THIS SIGN,
YOU CAN GET A GOOD JOB IN THE FAST-PACED,
HIGH-PAYING WORLD OF LATIN!

Tommorrows lesson is......

"My letter to crashtested from PDF how not to say sorry"

[mnealtx 0]

Want some cheese with that whine, dude?

YOU are the one that didn't cancel the order when PdF started "bullshitting you for 2 years".

Wanna be pissed at PdF? Fine. Wanna bitch about them online? Cool - although you're probably pissing in the wind, thinking that they're reading this post. Attacking someone because they're not joining in your bitchfest? Fucked up, dude.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[crashtested 0]

wow..... congrats.
That really is not a comment at all, thats just nothing!!

"You are the one that did not cancel your order when PDF started bullshiting you"

thats the point, ............................. if you don't get it now you never will.

Why don't you do something that helps somone, my back itches you could start there.

At least BILLS done something.

I'm going to take down PDF or they could apolagise.

Your right why would they bother reading DZ.com who gives a shit about sports skydivers.

Any other manufactures on here??

[crashtested 0]

"fucked up" is asuming that with 50 jumps in 15 years makes me respect your opinion on skydiving related issues..... there you go i've said it

[mnealtx 0]

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wow..... congrats.
That really is not a comment at all, thats just nothing!!

Neither was your OP... did you have a point to make somewhere in the thread?

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"You are the one that did not cancel your order when PDF started bullshiting you"

thats the point, ............................. if you don't get it now you never will.

Several of us "get it"... what part of "you did not cancel your order" did you find incomprehensible?

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At least BILLS done something.

What's that? Besides "selling out" because he's not joining in your bitchfest, that is?

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I'm going to take down PDF or they could apolagise.

Remember the "YOU did not cancel your order" bit, up above? Sorry, I don't think that "I wasn't bright enough to cancel my order when the lag time went beyond what I thought reasonable" is gonna get you any sympathy with a judge...but good luck with that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>I'm only harped off with you BILL because I think over the last 6 months
>you have lost the small amount of credibility we once thought you had.

No problem. I get that little moralizing speech about once every six months, usually when I ban someone for a personal attack. "You know, I used to respect you, but now that you've exposed your hypocrisy, vindictiveness, unfairness and all around evilness - NO MORE!" Oddly, sometimes I get it multiple times from the same posters . . .

>Understand Bill this has nothing to do with getting free gear, this is being
>The person that you have not been for so long now, warning new
>skydivers off shitty companies... do you remember giving a shit BILL??

Yep. Which is why I am making a point of it in this thread. You'll learn from your experiences with PdF, and hopefully others will learn as well - and not go through what you have. Once you get over your anger I hope you will help others learn as well.

Believe it or not, most of us have gone through this. A main that takes 12 months instead of 3. A rig that was sold as containing a Smart, and really has a Swift, and the seller claims "well, they're both legal reserves, and it's an understandable mistake . . ." We live and learn.

>I could not give a rats ass about a new AAD . . .

Then why did you say "do you think they have thrown in a AAD to keep me happy?"

>Principles BILL, do you remember what they are.... its nothing personal,
>its doing the right thing.

Yep. And part of that is taking responsibility for your own decisions, even if they don't turn out the way you wanted them to.

[humanflite 0]

I fully sympathise with crashtested......and can see precisely why he is complaining.

Its all good and well saying 'cancel the order' but they probably told him, just another month or two more, meaning the time was draggged out to the point of being in a situation of 'sod it, I may as well just wait now, its been a year already'

I for one have always avoided PDF gear on the advice of other people who have suffered with long long waits.

Its a shame, because some of their products are exquisite. but if their customer service is this bad, it just doesnt balance out to being worth it.

[crashtested 0]

HEY BILL,

1st point...no personal attack bill, nothing of the sort, but what is your point in this thread apart from moving it to another place.

2nd point...at no point does it seem you are condeming them or asking them to make a Public apology, your the great BILLVON for gods sake, if they don't listen to you who else will??

3rd point... AAD 4 3 ..get real BILL

4th point....HEY bill, i am taking actions for my responsabilitys its kind of "exitus acta probat" , if you know what i mean... hahahahahaha i don't think you do!!

Hey bill just let it go, you don't have to respond, you don't have to agree, all that we need to happen as have this made into a little sticky at the top of the page.

"PDF ARE SHISTERS"

or somthing of a collectives chosing. I'll set up another poll on friday, all ideas are welcome from the community, ideas are incouraged, which is kind of like encouraged but spelt different

[jakee 1,257]

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"PDF ARE SHISTERS"

It's 'Shyster'.

You may know Latin but you're shit at Yiddish

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pilotdave 0]

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I'll set up another poll on friday, all ideas are welcome from the community...

Hehe... yeah... as long as they agree with you. Making a poll with only answers you like is a great way to do that.

Good luck taking down PDF. I'm sure they'll notice.

Dave

[LloydDobbler 2]

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English and Latin in a capital please

I'm only harped off with you BILL because I think over the last 6 months you have lost the small amount of credibility we once thought you had.
Coupled with the fact you can't speak Latin, yet use small phrases which in English law is talking about property law not anything to do with the manufacturing of parachute gear.

Dude, honestly - it cracks me up that someone with your audacious lack of grammar skills is correcting Billvon's capitalization.

That being said, I sympathize with you. Even though I wouldn't have waited 18 months for a rig, for some reason you stuck it out, and you AND your dealer got screwed. That sucks.

It's a crappy situation that I wouldn't want to be in. But I also can't say I WOULD be in it. After reading the reviews, I stand with Bill - it seems like this sort of thing has been going on for years, even before the bait-and-switch deal they offered you.

Doesn't make it right...but it does mean you should have had some indication of what you were in for, had you done your research.

I hope you get your apology...but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Signatures are the new black.

[bigway 4]

Crashtest, YOu made a whine, people have read it, Billvon has said his opinion, it fired me up and you got a supporter. Thats that, end of story. Stop harping on at Bill though, He has been called out, right or wrong he replied.
Bill is a very big part of this community and has contributted shit loads of the years, probably if it was not for bill the moderator team and the advice and cleanliness of dropzone.com would not be what it is, So ease up mate, move on. Bill has his views, you have yours, I have mine. Bill go called out and he responded. Leave it at that as this thread is just going far too downhill with it now being you, me and bill making all the posts.


Crashtest, I too think you are a strange one waiting it out, however your dealer came and took me out for lunch a couple of months ago when she flew to Australia and we had a chat about this and it is obvious to me that it was far beyone any normal circumstances where just pulling out is just an easy option to do and she said you have been put through the ringer of bullshit and you have been totally amazing in how you have handled the situation. that means alot coming from her in my books. I could also see how exausted she was from the PDF fiasco, so going by this i can understand that pulling out was not an easy option. its like a lemon car, you keep putting money into it and you dont know when to stop.

Crashtest, dont keep harping on at bill, When I spoke out he could have easily come back and insulted me, put my grammar down and my typing skills etc but he came back with a reply and in that reply he made it known he feels for you. he just has a different opinion from an opinion that has been made over his long time in the industry/sport. he is entitled to that.

Move on before this thread continues the minefield it feels like. You want newbies to see this thread when they search for PDF, they are not going to see it if it is in the recylce bin and i believe the moderators are making a hard decision here already by leaving it in the forum and not the recycle bin. bill has sat there and taken personal insults and that is more than we can ask of him.

Crashtest, give up while you are ahead and have the majority of support on your side.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[crashtested 0]

oh no no no dave,

the whole idea is to get a nice little indication on a sticky,

Names for that sticky either way are important,

As its a community it should be everyone who should decide on these matters.... kind of like politicians with out the dishonesty and lies.

[crashtested 0]

Dear Sam,

I'm sorry to inform you than your order n° 298475 will be delivered for the 29/02/09.

We are sorry for the late delivery.

Feel free to contact me.



Best regards,

AERAZUR
Parachutes de France
2, rue Maurice Mallet
92130
Issy les Moulineaux
France

New website tommorrow!!

just so we're clear i ordered this in september 2007, this was my first contact with PDF

[piisfish 135]

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will be delivered for the 29/02/09.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM