Just looking for opinions or feedback / Canopy models

[Tuna-Salad 0]

So pretty soon I am planning to buy a rig and have decided on a 190 size canopy...
With my body weight I see no reason to go any lower than 190. I am currently under a 210 now with an exit weight of 250. (Bearing in mind it will be another couple of months before I have the funds to get my own rig)

My question is, what type of canopy (in your opinion) is a good first canopy.
I have no plans of swooping or doing anything too agressive.

Spectre? Sabre 2? etc.. I really don't know that much about equipment or all the different brands / models. Just getting opinions and doing a bit of research.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[nbblood 0]

Spectre, Sabre2, Pilot, Safire2 would be decent choices. Now I'll say what you'll undoubtedly hear a dozen times in the next few minutes......Get them and DEMO them! Decide for yourself.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[wmw999 2,122]

You might want to look at different sizes, too. A 210 would be a very appropriate choice too, unless you haven't updated your jumps in quite awhile. Not that you're making a dangerous choice necessarily, but sometimes giving yourself a little more fabric lets you learn more creatively without denting yourself.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bwilling 0]

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A 210 would be a very appropriate choice too, unless you haven't updated your jumps in quite awhile.

Another vote for staying on a 210 if your profile is current and your exit weight is 250. That's almost a 1.2 wing loading, at just over a hundred jumps!

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Spectre, Sabre2, Pilot, Safire2 would be decent choices.

You can't go wrong with any of these canopies. I'd also throw in PD's new Pulse, or even a Silhouette to the mix. If you have the time and energy, demo them all!

If you don't, and you're looking for a used canopy, try to find a decent deal on any of the above canopies, buy it, and jump the shit out of it. All of them are fine canopies, and you probably won't dislike any of them. And yes, I've jumped them all!

In another few hundred jumps, you'll have a better idea what you do and don't like about what you're flying, and you'll be ready for that 190. Then start the process all over again.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[Chubba 0]

Definitely demo the Sabre2.

Now that I've stopped rolling the nose while packing, I have ZERO complaints about the canopy.

Soft openings, fun to fly and a piece of cake to land, the flare is VERY powerful.

The Spectre was fun, but it was the flare in the end that sold me on the Sabre2.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Are you buying new, or used? What sort of budget are you working with?
My canopy is a PD210 9 cell, which is F-111 fabric. It packs up small, so when I ordered my container I got it sized for a 190 and it fits very easily. However, my wingloading is 1.2 also, and it is sort of pushing it, the flares are not good. The PD pulse is 1.5 sizes smaller than a comparable zp canopy in pack volume, similar to F-111. This is nice, because you can get a 210 and put it into a rig sized for a 190, just like I did. The Optima reserve is also low bulk, make sure you have similarly sized main and reserve.
I just bought a sabre 2, because awhile back I tried one out that was in a rental rig, and loved it! The flare is really powerful and long lasting.
All canopies have things that are good and bad, make a list of the ones you are thinking about and check out the reviews in "gear" tab above, and use the search. Make a list of priorities, you have to make some compromises. For instance, I don't like a long snivel, and wanted allot of flare. The sabre 2 does this for me great, but is known to have off heading openings and end cell closure sometimes, but that is ok with me.

[Chubba 0]

Just remember when considering the 210 instead of the 190, the modern (mid performance) canopy designs fly different to what you're currently on.

You will notice especially when you demo canopies like Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot that being slightly elliptical really kicks up your altitude loss a fair bit, great to spiral under.

[nbblood 0]

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Just remember when considering the 210 instead of the 190, the modern (mid performance) canopy designs fly different to what you're currently on.

You will notice especially when you demo canopies like Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot that being slightly elliptical really kicks up your altitude loss a fair bit, great to spiral under.

What??

First of all, the Spectre is tapered too. Why did you disclude that one? Next, the pilot is one of the flattest flying parachutes I've flown, similar to a stilleto, which is elliptical and doesn't "kick up altitude loss." Why are they great to spiral under?

Based on your profile and this nonsense, I'd say maybe you ought to read more, type less in this thread. Not trying to be an ass, but there is not much truth in what you posted.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Chubba 0]

ok

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Nice.. thanks for all of the input guys. When I suggested a 190 that was my "do not go below" threshold .. for my entire career of skydiving.
I got to jump a sabre 2 at sebastian and had the best landings ever, but it opened pretty rough.

I will indeed keep where I am at on the 210 and will demo the canopies named here.
The largest the sunshine factory has I think is a 200 so I will have to go below a 210 to demo anything other than student gear...

I have not updated my jump numbers in a while.. I am at 154 now.

As for new or used that is all depending on price... My father is expecting a large lump sum check and said he would buy the gear and I could pay him back at $200 a month, which is what I'm paying for gear rentals in a month easy.
I really have no idea what I'm looking for which is the reason for thread.
Anything I'm not paying for by the jump would be nice.
I KNOW!!! I'LL GET A KATANA!!!

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[mcordell 2]

yes, then immediately do a hop and pop and swoop the shit out of it....that's how you test one out, with a 960 degree front riser turn to a 60 mile an hour landing

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[skybytch 259]

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The largest the sunshine factory has I think is a 200 so I will have to go below a 210 to demo anything other than student gear...

Call PD. I'm fairly sure they have demo canopies available in sizes above 200 sq ft.

[Dan1 0]

I'm flying a Silhouette 210 and I love it. Was told and read that it was a great beginner canopy and hadn't heard anything negative about it, so I bought one, I couldn't be happier. I bought mine new and it's extremely easy to pack since it's a hybrid canopy. So if you are going to demo a few different canopies try out the silhouette.

But I also haven't really flown anything besides student canopies and my Silhouette...so you probably shouldn't listen to me since I don't know how my canopy compares to any other canopy

[nbblood 0]

Ok, since you've flown the Sabre2, here's a little more on what I think of the other canopies.....at least the ones I've jumped.

The Safire2 flies very similar to a Sabre2. It tends to open much softer....a little too soft for my personal liking. I also do not like the bottom end (flare) on the Safire2. It's not nearly as powerful (less lift) than the Sabre2.

The Pilot is an incredible-opening canopy. I like the way it opens as much as any other canopy I've flown, on-heading and smooth. It flies much flatter than the Sabre2, Safire2, or Spectre. It has good bottom end. It is much more responsive in turns than the other canopies (less toggle input required, faster turns)

The Spectre flies much steeper than the other canopies. This tricks some people up at flare altitude but it's just a matter of getting used to. It has decent bottom end. It's a 7-cell and I think it has a tendency to rock you a little bit in turbulent air. Some people don't like that and I don't blame them. It has great soft openings. I think it has the lightest front riser pressure of the four, but you may not care about that if you're not swooping it.

I don't know about the Pulse and the Silhouette as I've never jumped either, but they too are viable candidates for what you describe.

Anyway, that's what my opinions are on the four I mentioned having jumped them all. Hope this helps.

There's an awful lot to be said about PD's Demo program. You could demo 4 of the 6 mentioned through their program alone. Call Aerodyne about the Pilot for a demo. That leaves the Safire2.....I'm not too sure how to get a demo for that. I am unfamiliar with Icarus' demo program if they have one.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

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yes, then immediately do a hop and pop and swoop the shit out of it....that's how you test one out, with a 960 degree front riser turn to a 60 mile an hour landing

Who says I haven't?!?!?! I am the 100 jump wonder champion swooper!!!

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

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The largest the sunshine factory has I think is a 200 so I will have to go below a 210 to demo anything other than student gear...

Call PD. I'm fairly sure they have demo canopies available in sizes above 200 sq ft.

PD will mail me a canopy to demo?!?!?

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[likestojump 3]

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The largest the sunshine factory has I think is a 200 so I will have to go below a 210 to demo anything other than student gear...

Call PD. I'm fairly sure they have demo canopies available in sizes above 200 sq ft.

PD will mail me a canopy to demo?!?!?

hell yes.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/demo_sport.asp

[Tuna-Salad 0]

nice.. I shall do this at the earliest opportunity when I have funds available to actually buy a rig

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[LongWayToFall 0]

200 bucks a month is quite a few extra jumps per month once it is payed off, might as well buy on the cheap. First, you gotta decide what size canopies you are looking at though, that will decide what you buy. Check out containers with reserves, you can find them decent shape for $1000ish. I have also found that although it is a larger up front cost, buying an aad brand new saves you the most, with the vigil 2 being the best ($1200 and 20 years is much better than about $100/year plus maintenance for cypress)

[Glitch 0]

Good replies so far, but there's 1 thingy I haven't seen mentioned, which is.... really, what do you want to do with your canopy? Even if you haven't decided, it's something to think about. Does CRW interest you at all, even if you haven't tried it? Most seem to suggest 9-cells as if that's your only choice, or that you will naturally want to toe-surf or sumtin.... Just something to think about.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[jakee 1,255]

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The Safire2 flies very similar to a Sabre2. It tends to open much softer....a little too soft for my personal liking. I also do not like the bottom end (flare) on the Safire2. It's not nearly as powerful (less lift) than the Sabre2.

Disagree completely. The Safire2 has incredible flare power.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[sundevil777 93]

As others have aaid, you would be much better off under a 210 size wing. You'll still be able to have plenty of fun. A lot of very experienced jumpers load their wings at 1.2 and below. There is a lot to be said for the ability to walk without a limp as you grow old, and hospitals suck. Also, get the container properly sized for the canopy you start with, not the one you figure on downsizing to later.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[nbblood 0]

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The Safire2 flies very similar to a Sabre2. It tends to open much softer....a little too soft for my personal liking. I also do not like the bottom end (flare) on the Safire2. It's not nearly as powerful (less lift) than the Sabre2.

Disagree completely. The Safire2 has incredible flare power.

Ok, fair enough.....just not my experience. I am NOT knocking the Safire2, and I'm certainly not saying it sucks. It doesn't. I just didn't think it had the bottom end that the others do. Could've just been the canopy I was jumping too. Just MY comparison between one and the others. Nothing more than that.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[bwilling 0]

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PD will mail me a canopy to demo?!?!?

Sure, so will Aerodyne (Pilot) and Icarus (Safire 2 - through the Chicago Service Center at Para-Concepts). They all charge a nominal fee of some sort, but it's well worth the price to be able to demo a canopy that you're thinking of dropping nearly 2 grand on!

I'm a gear whore, and I've demoed them all, and owned some of them too... there are no bad canopies in the class of stuff you're looking at! It's a personal choice though, and you have to decide which one is best suited for you based on what you want from a canopy.

You can definitely determine that by demoing them.

I'll play along with nbblood and tell you what I think too. Of the Sabre2, Safire2, Pilot.

I thought the Pilot was the best opening of the bunch, by far. It was also the 'sportiest' feeling in flight (very quick toggle response, light riser pressure), but the weakest of the three landing. Not to imply that it doesn't land good, it does, it's just a relative comparison.

I though the Sabre 2 was the best landing of the three (it has seemingly endless flare power), and also had a nice sporty feel to it in flight. The openings were, uh, interesting. I demoed that canopy in 2 different sizes, and owned one for a while. The openings were interesting.

The Safire 2 was right in the middle. I though it was the best overall, with a nice blend of good openings and good landings. I don't think it opened as well as the Pilot, or landed as well as the Sabre 2, but it's close in both regards.

That's why you need to demo. What are your priorities? Will you sacrifice openings to get a canopy that lands like nobody's business, or are butter smooth consistent openings your primary focus?

That's what makes it a personal choice. You'll find folks that own and love all three of those canopies, and they'll all swear 'their' canopy is the best. And they'll be right, it's the best for them.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[Etch5 0]

Flown Sabre2, Safire2, and Pilot.

Sabre2 was my least favorite and has the most consistent problems on opening. Anyone and everyone I know that jumps one either hates it or defends that it's end cell closure and dives on opening are "normal". I don't know why that's something anyone would want to get used to.

Safire2 is really nice, nothing bad to say about it.

I have owned 2 Pilots and just bought my third. They open great and have great flight and flare characteristics. I've yet to run into anyone that could say anything negative about this canopy and I really like it.

Little cheaper than Safire2 as well, so if money is an issue this could be a selling point...