pilotdave 0 #26 January 26, 2009 Is it too late to ask for a rebuild of my 2004 Vector3? I think it's pretty obvious that the level of support varies with the type of contact the customer makes. I visited UPT a couple years ago when I had a small issue with my rig and the support was outstanding. After leaving my rig at UPT, I brought my main next door to PD for a reline. When the main was done, UPT picked it up and put it all back together for me. Next best is probably a phone call. Then email. I've had trouble in the past with emails to UPT. A couple never seemed to get there. That was a while ago though. Then finally, the PM on dropzone.com. Probably not the best way to get things done. Maybe better than leaving a message on UPT's myspace page. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #27 January 26, 2009 Loud Noises People that act like you are the very reason I'm not in the rig building business and why I don't rig full time anymore. It would be very easy to air differences on dropzone dot com but my method of getting work done or a screw up fixed is much different. A manufacturer may have disagreed with me temporarily but generally if I find a problem, there really is a problem. If it's easy enough, I'll just modify it myself. Saves time and energy. I've encountered plenty of mistakes made by manufacturers. The mistake may be in design, or a one off mistake. I worked on a rig where the mid flap that was cut from the wrong pattern (one size up). This was not UPT. 1 week turn around, they paid shipping and repacked the reserve. UPT is but one manufacturer where I've encountered, what in my opinion, are unacceptable parts. I never have trouble contacting them or other vendors. When I have an issue, I clearly state what it is, and what my opinion of the fix should be. Take a picture and send it. Camera phones rule. Hate to say it but the customer is not always right. You may have actually been dealt a bad hand but the way I read your post, I wouldn't want to deal with you for very long. Edit: see sigline. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #28 January 26, 2009 Your situation doesn't count here. Dropping equipment off at the door is hardly common. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #29 January 26, 2009 I have to say something here! Catfish, the toggle deal happened two years ago? You got new toggles at the drop of a hat, yet you have yet to tell anyone on here what the issue was? Hookit, living here in Florida, lots of us drop stuff off at the door and pick it up later in the week. Not very uncommon for jumpers in the area or just visiting. As far as support! I was never informed of the magnet mode until someone from UPT saw it at the DZ. He took the mod out of both of his rigs and gave them to me on the spot. Not sure how many other employees for any other manufacturer would do that! Airing your grievance on DZ.com! You are in some type of business I take it. If you are, I am sure at some point you had a disgruntled customer that you couldn't ever please....guess what....you are him! Grow up! Oh by the way if you take Dvnswoop up on his offer, I will split the costs with him! Oh, you can PM me also!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #30 January 26, 2009 Quote Hookit, living here in Florida, lots of us drop stuff off at the door and pick it up later in the week. Not very uncommon for jumpers in the area or just visiting. Of course it's common if you're there, It's certainly uncommon for the rest of us My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #31 January 26, 2009 No, it's not common. Just saying you get the best service in person and it goes down hill as your method of communication gets less and less personal. I was just visiting deland for a day. My friend wanted to stop by UPT to ask a question about some damage on his rig. My rig happened to be in the car, so I brought it in to show the problem I had. Little did I know that they considered my 3-year-old rig to be under warranty and they fixed it at no charge. And gave us a great demonstration of how to identify dangerous webbing damage. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #32 January 26, 2009 Quote Your kits will ship today at no charge. Mark Klingelhoefer Thanks Mark MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #33 January 26, 2009 [warning] To catfishhunter & stayhigh: personal attacks are not tolerated in the forums. [/warning]Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #34 January 27, 2009 Mike, Right On, UPT has always been good to me. I only had one problem with an old VectorII several years ago where the left side botton of the main container was sewn wrong where i couldn't get the main bag in the container. I just picked upt he phone and talked to them, Labled the problem area with a piece of paper and sent the rig back. I had it fixed and back by the weekend. My Micron that I got last October is perfect. The harness fits right and I told the gal who does the embroidery to use the trim colors on the wonderhog pig on the left mudflap and she used her imagination and it came out great. I did manage to misplace my packing instructions video CD with all the nice tips on it and I picked up the phone to UPT and they sent me a new one. Come to think of it, I also jump a Mirage G4 and I had an issue with a main lift web that was too short. (on a full articulated harness) I was in Florida and dropped it off and they took a few measurements and put a longer center piece in on both sides and I picked up the rig the next day. As with any business, If you're nice and diplomatic about a problem you have you can get things resolved much better. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpsteve 0 #35 January 27, 2009 I know next to nothing about Six Sigma wouldn't the defect rate for the "most stringent six sigma international production standads" be 3.4 per million? And isn't 6 out of 2,500 a rate of about .25% and not .1%? I do think UPT has extremely high quality and have always been happy with my rigs from them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #36 January 27, 2009 QuoteI know next to nothing about Six Sigma wouldn't the defect rate for the "most stringent six sigma international production standards" be 3.4 per million?Yes of the TOATL processes outside of the customers specifications. Remember that there are hundreds of processes per rig. QuoteAnd isn't 6 out of 2,500 a rate of about .25% and not .1%?Yes, but I said OVER 2,500 and I used that number only as an example. While I know the actual number that information is private to the company. It was also as I stated based that all six complaints were valid which they probably were not. My bad for mixing actual numbers with what I posted, sorry.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #37 January 27, 2009 I have had nothing but good from UPT customer service. This is coming from someone who owns 2 of their rigs personally and is running a dropzone that uses all sigma tandem rigs. My rig came with a small D handle (I picked it) which didn't end up working for me and I was able to exchange it for shipping costs. No problem from them! UPT deals with problems faster and more thoroughly than any of the other manufacturers in my opinion.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #38 January 28, 2009 apparently most commercial aviation operations run at 3 sigma all the better car manufacturers are getting close to running at 6 sigma Which one should we compare manufacturers of skydiving equipment to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #39 January 28, 2009 QuoteThey made over 2,500 containers that year. If all six complaints were valid that would be less than 0.1% error rate. Even by the most stringent six sigma international production standards that would be within the acceptable rate. No, it wouldnt. Quote They are an ISO 2001 certified company ISO certification does not ensure quality. It ensures evrything can be tracked and measured.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #40 January 28, 2009 Quote No, it wouldnt. Guess you didn't read the calcification. Quote ISO certification does not ensure quality. It ensures evrything can be tracked and measured You need to read section 8. The end purpose of applying ISO standards is to IMPROVE quality! While there will always be exceptions, in general, companies that embrace ISO standards to improve quality do have better quality control and fewer errors. And while as you stated “ISO certification does not ensure quality”, in the case of UPT it absolutely did, which is why I stated it. The bottom line that I was addressing was that what the original poster stated about quality control was not true about UPT. Now if we were to apply ISO standards to your spelling I bet we could improve it and prevent or reduce the chance of repeated errors.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #41 January 29, 2009 Quote Quote No, it wouldnt. Guess you didn't read the calcification. Quote ISO certification does not ensure quality. It ensures evrything can be tracked and measured You need to read section 8. The end purpose of applying ISO standards is to IMPROVE quality! While there will always be exceptions, in general, companies that embrace ISO standards to improve quality do have better quality control and fewer errors. And while as you stated “ISO certification does not ensure quality”, in the case of UPT it absolutely did, which is why I stated it. The bottom line that I was addressing was that what the original poster stated about quality control was not true about UPT. Now if we were to apply ISO standards to your spelling I bet we could improve it and prevent or reduce the chance of repeated errors. DAMN! BURN! 'calcification' and that after you had edited your post already... POT. KETTLE. BLACK. make a sentence with those... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #42 January 29, 2009 Mike: how about we see who has the better spelling in English, French and Spanish combined? And I'm still waiting for the site to fix the spell check! lol I type more typos than words somedays! lol But back to Section 8: again, it's about improvement, not raw quality. I'm not saying ISO cert is useless, but many people assume that a ISO certified company MUST have quality products. That is simply not true. PS: you will notice I rarely bash people for typos (plain unintelligible sentences, yes), because I know I make plenty of them... Maybe you should make damm sure you dont make them when bashing others Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CygnusX-1 42 #43 January 29, 2009 Quote but many people assume that a ISO certified company MUST have quality products. That's the whole purpose of ISO certification. It's there to try to convince the (for lack of a better word) uneducated masses that this company is better than the rest. It really means nothing. The company I work for has ISO certification. All it means is that we follow the processes that we wrote. There is no external rules, regulations, code of conduct that we must follow. It's like this: I could write a process that says I must produce a widget with a failure rate of no less than 95%. As long as I follow the process, I can get ISO certified. Even though my widgets that I'm making and selling only work 5% of the time.BTW, this is me agreeing with you Remster... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #44 January 29, 2009 And you must pay big money for this every year. Same for parachute manufacturing in EEC (maybe in US too) with the Part 21/G which is the same as ISO for aero products.This is only paperwork to pickup money from us.Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #45 January 29, 2009 QuoteISO certification does not ensure quality. It ensures evrything can be tracked and measured. Bingo. It's also a criteria for many military contracts which is the ONLY reason why money has been spent by manufacturers to obtain and keep the certification.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #46 January 30, 2009 Hi Cygnus, QuoteAll it means is that we follow the processes that we wrote. Bingo! I spent 30 yrs working for the federal gov't in QC Programs ( along with other work ). I first came across ISO in 1978 while in Italy on a project. I thought this was a great system, finally a system that would be accepted world-wide ( we were have problems in this area ). A group of us were assigned to look into this ISO 'thing.' Our conclusions were exactly as you state: We can make garbage as long as we document the process and follow the process that we document. IMO, it is a lot of money for very little. But if your customers require it ( the US military for example) then you get it. Just my old two cents on this, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
